E90 Turbo kit (sneak peak)

[HorsepowerFreak]

We're nearing the physical completion of our turbo kit for the E90. The car will be driveable this Wednesday. The turbo kit required a lot of special fabrication which will make the end result very very nice. However, it took a lot of work and ingenuity to pull it off.

My requirements for this particular turbo kit are:
1) No cutting or welding on existing components so that the car can be returned to stock if necessary.
2) Complete bolt on with no tuning necessary.
3) No check engine lights period!
4) Safe and reliable.
5) All hot parts must be heat shieded or ceramic coated.

We only had to violate #1 in one particular location. The car has a unique front air duct that also holds the radiator in place. There were two options, one, make a cutout in this air duct to provide perfect fitment for the intercooler or use a water/air intercooler. Water/air intercoolers have the unique problem that if they fail, they can hydro-lock a motor. That violates rule 4. So this kit will have an option that includes a new complete front air duct with the hole already cut out of it not violating any of my initial rules.

Here's a sneak peak at the front of the 330i nearly ready to roll. I'll take some videos of the 330 and post them up by the end of this week.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/330i/HPF_FMIC_330i_SML.jpg

Take care,
Chris.

[stack]

where is the rest of it we want more pics

stack

[stressdoc]

That should make for some heavy competition for the 335i !

[Ed_330i]

wow, this thing will own!!

any prelimenary boost figures? base hp??

awesome!!

[ACZakka325i]

Please make it for the 325i. Im so pissed about the new 328 and 335, especially since the 328 will be the same price as the current 325. Help me help you.

[timzerofive]

Quick question...
What turbo are you using? What type of FMS are you employing? You said you're making it so no check engine light will appear, other than switching to a total standalone ECU (which I doubt could be done so quickly), you wouldn't be able to boost too much. Also, instead of cutting the front air dam to fit the fmic, anyway of not cutting anything by using a couple of side mounts? Will the bov be recirculating or venting to atmosphere? What kind of exhaust manifold it is using? Cast iron? Or one of those multi-joint welding kind? Will the cat be removed??

Sorry for so many questions, just very interested.

[longtran]

Quick question...
What turbo are you using? What type of FMS are you employing? You said you're making it so no check engine light will appear, other than switching to a total standalone ECU (which I doubt could be done so quickly), you wouldn't be able to boost too much. Also, instead of cutting the front air dam to fit the fmic, anyway of not cutting anything by using a couple of side mounts? Will the bov be recirculating or venting to atmosphere? What kind of exhaust manifold it is using? Cast iron? Or one of those multi-joint welding kind? Will the cat be removed??

Sorry for so many questions, just very interested.
:bellyroll :bellyroll so much for the quick questions. :bellyroll :bellyroll

[Broken1]

COOL!

[ZenDriver]

Being local, could I come over and take a gander at your work?

[db17k]

HAWT!!!!!! oh man I can't wait to see the video of this thing in action! :bulge: :drool:

[HorsepowerFreak]

Quick question...
What turbo are you using? What type of FMS are you employing? You said you're making it so no check engine light will appear, other than switching to a total standalone ECU (which I doubt could be done so quickly), you wouldn't be able to boost too much. Also, instead of cutting the front air dam to fit the fmic, anyway of not cutting anything by using a couple of side mounts? Will the bov be recirculating or venting to atmosphere? What kind of exhaust manifold it is using? Cast iron? Or one of those multi-joint welding kind? Will the cat be removed??

Sorry for so many questions, just very interested.

Good questions...

The turbo is a Garrett GT32 (capable of 400rwhp). For our first production version (stage 1) we are going to limit boost via an internal wastegate and will tune to somewhere in between 300 and 350hp. That power level will depend on a lot of factors.

The FMIC is a bar and plate (spearco design) which is much more efficient than the standard tube and fin. Side mounts would not work easily on this vehicle without major cutting. The core location we used is optimal as it is force feed from the air duct.

We will NOT be using a standalone. We have several methods of electronics that we will be employing starting with the most basic and working our way to the more advanced. I would prefer to use the more basic approaches that we've used on our other turbo kits. I'll give more details on this in a few weeks.

The blow off valve will recirculate back into the intake stream. I wanted the stealth approach for my BMW and I assume most other owners would not want people to know that they have a turbo in their car. So another rule not listed (#6) no noise.

Our full production exhaust manifolds will be cast iron and CNC machined. Our pre-production and early sales will be using stainless steel manifolds.

Our kit will include a custom catalytic converter. It is no easy deal. This is some serious fabrication. The space requirements in the vehicle and my complete bolt up rule required this special catalytic converter to be custom manufactured. The welds will be much cleaner in our production pieces. This was just to get the alignment correct.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/330i/cat.jpg

Chris.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Please make it for the 325i. Im so pissed about the new 328 and 335, especially since the 328 will be the same price as the current 325. Help me help you.

Yes,

We will be making it for the 325i. I'm not sure on the timeframe for that however. But I'm fairly confident we will have the 325i version completed by end of 2006.


Being local, could I come over and take a gander at your work?


The BMW will be back here only briefly this week. Mike and Mark from Pacific Motorsports "The BMW Shop" will be the Northwest exclusive installers of these HPF turbo kits. We will be working with them to get the electronics ironed out and they will be providing installations for our local and Northwest customers. For those outside of this area or those that want to install the kits themselves, these kits come with complete instructions and can be installed by the average backyard mechanic.

Once the electronic components are completed, the car comes back here to get dynoed. You can definitely come by at that time.

Take care,
Chris.

[David325Australia]

Please make it for the 325i. Im so pissed about the new 328 and 335, especially since the 328 will be the same price as the current 325.
is this official from bmw? if so, when are the release dates?
what are the performance figures?

my old e36 320 was superceeded by a 323

my old e46 323 was superceeded by a 325.

i am aware that my e90 325 will be superceeded by something during its model life. no probs for me. my e90 is still improving just nicely in its performance stakes.

im not sure about adding on a turbo to a non turbo designed car controlled by a major computer system.

i chipped my 320 and 323 but im not touchung the 325. its wonderful.

all the best.

[poldim]

Good questions...

The turbo is a Garrett GT32 (capable of 400rwhp). For our first production version (stage 1) we are going to limit boost via an internal wastegate and will tune to somewhere in between 300 and 350hp. That power level will depend on a lot of factors.

The FMS is a bar and plate (spearco design) which is much more efficient than the standard tube and fin. Side mounts would not work easily on this vehicle without major cutting. The core location we used is optimal as it is force feed from the air duct.

We will NOT be using a standalone. We have several methods of electronics that we will be employing starting with the most basic and working our way to the more advanced. I would prefer to use the more basic approaches that we've used on our other turbo kits. I'll give more details on this in a few weeks.

The blow off valve will recirculate back into the intake stream. I wanted the stealth approach for my BMW and I assume most other owners would not want people to know that they have a turbo in their car. So another rule not listed (#6) no noise.

Our full production exhaust manifolds will be cast iron and CNC machined. Our pre-production and early sales will be using stainless steel manifolds.

Our kit will include a custom catalytic converter. It is no easy deal. This is some serious fabrication. The space requirements in the vehicle and my complete bolt up rule required this special catalytic converter to be custom manufactured. The welds will be much cleaner in our production pieces. This was just to get the alignment correct.

Chris.



Hot!


Wish I could dish out the cash for one.


By FMS I think he meant Fuel Management System, not FMIC.


BTW, is that the WG I see in the pic?

[croaker]

[QUOTE=poldim]Hot!


Wish I could dish out the cash for one.QUOTE]

This brings up a good point. About how much will this kit and install cost?

-Croaker

[Hula-Hula]

wow keep up the good work guys can't wait for the videos!!! :D

[AW330i]

man it looks mean so far, keep us posted with prices, photos and dyno results :thumbsup:

[timzerofive]

Good questions...

The turbo is a Garrett GT32 (capable of 400rwhp). For our first production version (stage 1) we are going to limit boost via an internal wastegate and will tune to somewhere in between 300 and 350hp. That power level will depend on a lot of factors.

The FMIC is a bar and plate (spearco design) which is much more efficient than the standard tube and fin. Side mounts would not work easily on this vehicle without major cutting. The core location we used is optimal as it is force feed from the air duct.

We will NOT be using a standalone. We have several methods of electronics that we will be employing starting with the most basic and working our way to the more advanced. I would prefer to use the more basic approaches that we've used on our other turbo kits. I'll give more details on this in a few weeks.

The blow off valve will recirculate back into the intake stream. I wanted the stealth approach for my BMW and I assume most other owners would not want people to know that they have a turbo in their car. So another rule not listed (#6) no noise.

Our full production exhaust manifolds will be cast iron and CNC machined. Our pre-production and early sales will be using stainless steel manifolds.

Our kit will include a custom catalytic converter. It is no easy deal. This is some serious fabrication. The space requirements in the vehicle and my complete bolt up rule required this special catalytic converter to be custom manufactured. The welds will be much cleaner in our production pieces. This was just to get the alignment correct.



Sounds pretty good so far. Ya, that weld does look a little scary down there. I would prefer cast iron, doesn't look as nice but less worries. I'm assuming you are going to be producing kits for sale? What is the price range you are estimating? Less than $15gs?

Haha, with the front mount on it won't be TOO stealthy. I personally loved the loud bov I had on my old car although the whole car looked stock. Any possibility to go vent-to-atmosphere for this car or will this throw off the a/f ratio on it? My old car had to go full standalone to do v-t-a.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Sounds pretty good so far. Ya, that weld does look a little scary down there. I would prefer cast iron, doesn't look as nice but less worries. I'm assuming you are going to be producing kits for sale? What is the price range you are estimating? Less than $15gs?

I agree about the cast iron and we will be submitting our manifolds to get the molding done a few months after the intial release. The reason for the delay between them is we are also fitting these kits into my 530i, and we would like to have the manifolds interchangeable.

The Stage One Kits will be priced less than 10K. I'm just not sure where quite yet. Once we figure out the electronics, we can dial in a price. I'll know more in a couple weeks.

The vent to atmosphere may be possible depending on the electronics we use. As that air won't be metered, we would need to trick the air flow to keep the car from hesitating or wanting to stall and some of the options we use have that capability. However... It is much easier to simply re-route it back in.

[QUOTE=AW330i]
man it looks mean so far, keep us posted with prices, photos and dyno results[\QUOTE]

Thanks.

poldim... i changed the acronym. I'm used to referring to it as an FMIC as well.

Take care,
Chris.

[ben1364]

Question? Is your turbo kit sanctioned by BMW NA and does it affect the vehicle warranty?

[will]

Question? Is your turbo kit sanctioned by BMW NA and does it affect the vehicle warranty?

Was your brain sanctioned by your body?

[obLu]

Bhahahaha :laughabov

[shragon]

nutz!!

can't wait to see the completed project.

[D.D.]

Question? Is your turbo kit sanctioned by BMW NA and does it affect the vehicle warranty?
He is kidding....Right??? :bellyroll :bellyroll :bellyroll

[ben1364]

Actually DD, I wasn't kidding. DINAN (for example) is sanctioned by BMW NA as it's products have met BMW's standards. BMW NA and AG are not adverse to aftermarket parts per see.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Actually DD, I wasn't kidding. DINAN (for example) is sanctioned by BMW NA as it's products have met BMW's standards. BMW NA and AG are not adverse to aftermarket parts per see.

I do have some friends that were very high up at BMW. They want to market and distribute this kit over in Europe independently of BMW. I see no real reason that BMW NA would want to promote this product as they won't want any liability.

Regarding warranty... My #1 priority in developing this kit was to retain all of the factory components so that in the event that a warranty claim existed for any reason (and/or unrelated reasons) that the car could be put back to factory specs quite easily. And we've accomplished this task.

Take care,
Chris.

[obLu]

Dinan's the *ONLY* aftermarket supplier sanctioned by BMW NA. AG likes ACS. But I've still heard plenty of horror stories of individual dealers refusing to work on cars with Dinan parts.

Also, that might be why Dinan parts are so outrageously expensive; he may have to pay a "licensing" fee on each part he sells. Or pay BMW NA to get them "certified".

[DTM]

I'm curious if the electronics simply control the turbocharger, or do they also hook up to the engine computer, and control valve timing and Double VANOS and all that bullshit. What "electronics" are we talking about?

[ksfrogman]

No need to reduce the compression ratio before turbocharging?

[mwilli]

Yes and how much boost are you running 6-8psi? High compression has always been a stumbling block for boosting BMW's

[ZenDriver]

Dinan's program with BMW is a bit of smoke and mirrors. While I am not familiar with the exact agreement between Dinan and BMW NA, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act protects BMW owners from BMW denying warranty coverage due to the instillation of after-market parts. Put simply, the Magnuson-Moss effectively says that it is the onus of the warranty provider to reasonably prove that it was an after-market component which caused the warranty provider's product to fail if they are to deny warranty coverage.

For example; if I install after-market software onto my car's ECU and the transmission fails, BMW would need to prove that it was the engine software which somehow caused the failure. Now, BMW could probably theoretically do this (they could dyno the car and state that the chipped engine is now outputting more power then the transmission is rated to handle). Having said that, BMW is not very motivated to do this sort of thing and it us usually far easier for all involved when BMW simply provides proper warranty coverage.

What Dinan has *really* done is to basically establish a relationship with BMW where as all of the warranty issues are handled transparently to the vehicle owner. All Joe Blow Dinan/BMW owner needs to do to get his M3 fixed is take it into the dealership and if it was the Dinan part which caused the failure, Dinan pays the bill and the client is none the wiser. Mind you, this sort of deal has significant infrastructure behind it to make the warranty coverage transparent, but in the end, the BMW warranty is NOT affected by Dinan in any way; Dinan has simply established that they will pick up where the warranty left off.

Dinan is NOT *sanctioned* by BMW of North America. Dinan parts *ARE NOT* certified by BMW NA in any way, shape or form. BMW warranty coverage *IS IDENTICAL* between Dinan parts and Turner parts and ACS parts and any other company's parts.

Dinan parts are outrageously expensive because Dinan (while they have a very good engineering staff) does not have any sort of economy of scale. H&R makes springs all day long so the R&D, tooling and production costs for H&R to build a spring for a particular vehicle are very low. Dinan engineers everything, so they do not get the same efficiencies as H&R. Replace the H&R/suspension analogy with just about every component catagory and you get an idea of why Dinan parts cost so much.

[BMW_E90]

nice, ive been waiting for force induction for the e90. that intercooler does look pretty badass.

[timzerofive]

I was under the impression that Dinan parts still will void BMW warranty, but they simply match the BMW warranty so your car is still under warranty, just under Dinan and not BMW.

[335e90]

Just one question: will it pass emission tests?? Thanks Horsepowerfreak!! :)

[EVO_S4]

nice, but $10K is to much for me

[J330i]

Just trade in your 325/330 for a 335 if and when it comes out. Take the 10G trade in hit and you won't have to worry about voiding warranty, etc. Plus, you have another year of warranty and equity.

Just my $0.02.

[kt157]

lets see 1 of these run against a turbocharged is300 and a e46 m3

[HorsepowerFreak]

Our stage one kits will run roughly 8psi. We will be monitoring knock very closely. We're looking to make a safe 300-350hp. Our stage 2 will use the same turbo but will include a head gasket to drop the compression down. This option will make well over 400hp with the increased boost. The stage 2 kit will not be available until later this year, and will be an upgrade option for those that already purchased the stage 1 kits.

I will continue to push my 330 and 530 and continue to provide options for those that want power in excess of 500hp.

I would like all stage one customers to be able to pass DEQ and this of course will be one of the tests.

These kits include a ton of components. Everything from a custom motor mount to a complete intake and intercooler system. It also includes a custom MAF harness and relocation kit, wiring harnesses, etc. etc. etc. The manifold design is entirely custom and is unlike nearly all other manifolds as the runners actually protrude past the flange directly into the exhaust ports and are sealed off with o-rings. This car literally has 6 oxygen sensors in it!!

This project was very very complicated but the end result will be well worth it. A completely daily driveable, reliable, high horsepower luxury sedan.

Chris.

[sunchild]

Thrilled, very.

[ben1364]

ZenDriver stated the obvious. <g>

[RichP]

Looks interesting, although, you guys have completed, by far, the easiest stage of the project: the hardware.

I have been around BMW forced induction for 6-7 years now, and these cars do not take to FI well in any sort of tuning sense, especially the E46 (and it can be assumed the E90) While, in theory, its simple, and the ECU should want to play nice with extra air/extra fuel, the ECU completely freaks out with any deviant from the norm. Its going to be upset with the 6 O2 sensors, regardless of what black box you use to make them appear as 2 signals. Its going to run lean in all sorts of part/no throttle situations. Its going to go into limp mode as soon as that turbo pulls ANY air through the MAF sensor and the "throttle" is closed, which FI cars do. (Throttle closed + air through maf = ECU sensing electronic throttle/Valvetronic failure)

I dont mean to come across too negative, LOL. I would like for nothing more than to see this kit work, and work beautifully!

[poldim]

Hope all goes well...I know that hardware is the easiest part of it. I spent years research, bought it isntalled it, and then spent years tunning it....

[timzerofive]

Looks interesting, although, you guys have completed, by far, the easiest stage of the project: the hardware.

I have been around BMW forced induction for 6-7 years now, and these cars do not take to FI well in any sort of tuning sense, especially the E46 (and it can be assumed the E90) While, in theory, its simple, and the ECU should want to play nice with extra air/extra fuel, the ECU completely freaks out with any deviant from the norm. Its going to be upset with the 6 O2 sensors, regardless of what black box you use to make them appear as 2 signals. Its going to run lean in all sorts of part/no throttle situations. Its going to go into limp mode as soon as that turbo pulls ANY air through the MAF sensor and the "throttle" is closed, which FI cars do. (Throttle closed + air through maf = ECU sensing electronic throttle/Valvetronic failure)

I dont mean to come across too negative, LOL. I would like for nothing more than to see this kit work, and work beautifully!

Sounds like all these could be solved simply by using a full standalone... but of course, thats the hard part. You're right though, tuning is the bitch part, that's why I wanted to find out what type of fms they'll be using. I had AEM EMS on my old car and that thing is amazing, but still, lots of laptop hours.

The price of under $10k will be extremely good for a BMW kit that's tuned. I'm guessing after all the tuning hours are tacked on, that price might creep up. I mean if you guys look at the kid relative to other cars kit... my old car's custom kit cost me a total of about $15k. A Greddy kit for 350Z twin turbo is about $7k and a Powerhouse kit for that car is $9k.

[lux.sh]

Awesome stuff Horsepowerfreaks.

I need to talk to Sean, see if he can hook me up with a good price on this kit. :D
what is the estimated(goal) price & power figure on this?

[lux.sh]

Looks interesting, although, you guys have completed, by far, the easiest stage of the project: the hardware.

I have been around BMW forced induction for 6-7 years now, and these cars do not take to FI well in any sort of tuning sense, especially the E46 (and it can be assumed the E90) While, in theory, its simple, and the ECU should want to play nice with extra air/extra fuel, the ECU completely freaks out with any deviant from the norm. Its going to be upset with the 6 O2 sensors, regardless of what black box you use to make them appear as 2 signals. Its going to run lean in all sorts of part/no throttle situations. Its going to go into limp mode as soon as that turbo pulls ANY air through the MAF sensor and the "throttle" is closed, which FI cars do. (Throttle closed + air through maf = ECU sensing electronic throttle/Valvetronic failure)

I dont mean to come across too negative, LOL. I would like for nothing more than to see this kit work, and work beautifully!


Trust me. HorsepowerFreaks know what they are doing. Just wait and let them do their job.

[ben1364]

I confess that I don't recall having heard of "Horsepower Freaks" before this thread developed. Do they advertize in the Roundel?

[lux.sh]

they are wide known between Supra owners.
Check out both of their website. horsepowerfreaks.com/torquefreaks.com

[timzerofive]

No, I think the problem with BMW will be that the ECU on bimmers will react differently to any piggy backs they might try to use. It might seems straight forward by intercepting the incoming signal here, and over there, translating it into something the ECU can understand. However, some ECU just reacts differently when tempered with. I don't doubt their expertise on Supras because I've seen some cars tuned by them, but do keep in mind, that's a car that comes with factory turbo. Even if it was a non-turbo supra, they already have something to base off of. I don't doubt what they're claiming on what they can do with BMW either, but I just agree with the other guy that they are just getting started on the kit. Tuning it will be the most difficult part.

My old car, with the custom T3/T4 setup, they had all the hardware installed after a week, including a custom built T3/T4 (with clipped exhaust wheel and different exhaust housing size). The tuning of the car took about 2 months to get it running on the streets, and about another 6 months to get it running smoothly w/no hiccups. And I had to still constantly play with it on the laptop while driving to fine tune it. Well, that is with a full stand alone I'm sure they can get the car running smoothly a lot sooner then that, but still, the point is, tuning will be the hard part. And it will be very exciting to see how they will get it working.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Yes you guys are correct, the ECU will be very tricky and finicky and will take quite some time to get dialed in. With regards to stand alones, We are AEM's largest distributor of engine management systems, and have installed and tuned these in many different cars. However... my goal is not to piggyback a stand alone on top of the existing ECU. We have several methods in mind that we will be trying and will ultimately come up with a desirable setup.

In order to accomplish this we've enlisted the help of Extreme Turbo (their shop builds high end turbo / intercooler kits for many different applications) and Pacific Motorsports "The BMW Shop" (well known for producing some very high end customized BMW's as well as turbocharged BMW applications)

The kit itself was actually the most complicated, complex kit we've ever developed. When we have the final production photos taken of the complete kit I think people will realize that this whole effort was a very daunting task. With that said, I'll keep everybody posted with our progress and hope to have some answers to the electronics very shortly.

Take care,
Chris.

[timzerofive]

Any thoughts on twin turbo?? Or a sequential setup. Since the car feels so smooth now, a sequential might be able to maintain that same bmw smoothness better.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Awesome stuff Horsepowerfreaks.

I need to talk to Sean, see if he can hook me up with a good price on this kit. :D
what is the estimated(goal) price & power figure on this?

We'd love to set you up with one of these kits. In regards to TorqueFreaks... Sean no longer owns TorqueFreaks. Mark purchased it from Sean. I have an exclusive deal with Pacific Motorsports (down off of Powell and about 13th). They will be the only shop authorized in the NW to install our kits. They are very very very good at BMWs. That's why we chose them.

I'll have mine done shortly and you can stop over if you want to check it out. I'll keep this thread going with the progress. Pricing will be under $10K and power will be somewhere between 300-350hp for the stage one kits depending on the boost we're able to run with the electronics we're using.

Take care,
Chris.

[hunter399]

What type of numbers are you looking at for the 325?

I want to be the first person on your list!

I can't wait!!!!

[BMW_E90]

we're all soo excited to see some pictures. show me the pictures! im curious how the setup looks like on the e90... :)

[RichP]

Trust me. HorsepowerFreaks know what they are doing. Just wait and let them do their job.

oh, in that case... :rolleyes:

Im not doubting their ability to tune a car; and I am not doubting their fame in the Supra arena for building some truly kickass cars. :rocks: As timzerofive stated though, adding a turbo to an NA car is a totally different animal than tuning up a factory turbo. Honestly, there are very very few turbo addon kits, for any make, that run anywhere near "acceptable" if by acceptable we are stating pretty much OEM reliability and power delivery.

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc. And that is only on the E46. The E90 is integrated to other systems in ways that are almost ridiculous. You cannot even swap out the audio headunit in our cars without tripping fault codes. Piggybacks dont work either; either the ECU trips codes, maybe going into limp mode; or it simply adapts around what the unit is feeding it.

Turbo cars are very hard to tune for in NA applications. Unlike centrifugal blowers (which make for some boring and unexciting FI generally) the boost comes on at all different times at different levels, making for predictability in tuning much more complex. There is a reason why there are no E46s turbos, and it has been 7 years since their release.

Again, I am not discrediting anyting on this thread, and I wish these guys the best of luck. If this thing ever did ran right, my amex card will be ready.

[Artz 330]

Under 10K? hmm this is gonna be a rare Item amoung the E90 crowed, no?... :confused2

[hunter399]

I will be getting one for sure

[Artz 330]

I will be getting one for sure
hell... me too... :rocks: :rocks:

[BMW_E90]

10k is a lot of money id rather buy another car..

[lux.sh]

oh, in that case... :rolleyes:

Im not doubting their ability to tune a car; and I am not doubting their fame in the Supra arena for building some truly kickass cars. :rocks: As timzerofive stated though, adding a turbo to an NA car is a totally different animal than tuning up a factory turbo. Honestly, there are very very few turbo addon kits, for any make, that run anywhere near "acceptable" if by acceptable we are stating pretty much OEM reliability and power delivery.

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc. And that is only on the E46. The E90 is integrated to other systems in ways that are almost ridiculous. You cannot even swap out the audio headunit in our cars without tripping fault codes. Piggybacks dont work either; either the ECU trips codes, maybe going into limp mode; or it simply adapts around what the unit is feeding it.

Turbo cars are very hard to tune for in NA applications. Unlike centrifugal blowers (which make for some boring and unexciting FI generally) the boost comes on at all different times at different levels, making for predictability in tuning much more complex. There is a reason why there are no E46s turbos, and it has been 7 years since their release.

Again, I am not discrediting anyting on this thread, and I wish these guys the best of luck. If this thing ever did ran right, my amex card will be ready.

Thanks for the explanation. Im sure these guys know much more than any of us.

[Tierfreund]

What type of numbers are you looking at for the 325?

I want to be the first person on your list!

I can't wait!!!!


You´re going to need it too. To outrun those bloody SUV with crowbars in front that keep knocking you up from behind. :D

Sorry, couldn´t resist. Hope the repairs on your car are going well.

[hunter399]

LOL :laugh:
Today I will get a quote from the body shop :(

[Artz 330]

lol

[Chesmu]

You´re going to need it too. To outrun those bloody SUV with crowbars in front that keep knocking you up from behind. :D

Sorry, couldn´t resist. Hope the repairs on your car are going well.
Oh now that's just mean....
hell, buy the man a beer...
:drink:

[MORRAlloys]

300hp-350hp @ 8psi is understimating.

I believe 350hp+ will come easy. Now, do NOT sell the stage 2 only to previous stage 1 customers. This is a VERY BAD marketing strategy. Personally, I will buy this kit once they come with the 325I version, however, I will not buy it without the headgasket.

Keep up the good work. ;)

[AW330i]

Oh now that's just mean....
hell, buy the man a beer...
:drink:

That would be illegal he is underage... LOL

[timzerofive]

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc.

I believe the AEM EMS does allow you to retain all thosel functions. iDrive is another story though. Can BMW ecu be "reflashed"??

[diesel007]

I will take an e46 M3 over a turbo'd e90.

Good luck with it though, seems like too much work for something that will have so many potential issues.

[hunter399]

That would be illegal he is underage... LOL
HEY! :mad: :smoking:

[HorsepowerFreak]

I just drove my turbo'd 330i about 20 miles today. It drives awesome. I didn't get into much boost but I sure wanted to. Here's a video of the completed kit installed along with my exciting narrative. :)

Here you go. http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/videos/330iTurboKit.wmv

Take care,
Chris.

[335e90]

HorsepowerFreak=My Hero!!

[hunter399]

Mine too!!!!

[EVO_S4]

if you guys make a it around the 5K mark I would be down, btw are you guys still running the stock exhaust with the turbo

[hunter399]

It says in the video they are

[EVO_S4]

I must miss it

[tiga901]

I'm impressed...hopefully you have a Northern California dealer!

[fllpunk]

BAd ass! MOre vid! Some action shots, maybe a flip jump A-TEAM style.

[335e90]

Cool video.....but when are we gonna see this BEAST in action???

[AW330i]

I need to go change my underware!

[Ed_330i]

holy crap that video, you guys work with AWESOME CARS.

yellow supra, tons of vipers!! an Si

[luprang]

i cant get the movie to work...can someone help?

[poldim]

I believe the AEM EMS does allow you to retain all thosel functions. iDrive is another story though. Can BMW ecu be "reflashed"??


I had and tuned an EMS for over 2 years. Although its a great piece of hardware, I highly doubt it will match any of the systems already built into the BMW. The key with the E90 is that many systems are linked together and share information in order to operate. No stand alone would be able of duplicating a system this complex.

[PittWm]

You did it, proud of your work!

[lux.sh]

I don't think this kit will be anywhere around 5k. Most likely upper 7~8k range.

[db17k]

I don't think this kit will be anywhere around 5k. Most likely upper 7~8k range.

i agree 5k is like the price for an integra's turbo upgrade.

[BMW_E90]

i agree 5k is like the price for an integra's turbo upgrade.
HELL naw you crazy its about 2k my friend has a t3/t4 turbo accord and he got it done for around 2k.

[BMW_E90]

and also my friend has a greddy bolt on sitting in he's garage. he's selling it for about 1.5K

[technik]

:thumbsup: to some great looking hardware.

Now you just need to program MSV70 properly and you'll have quite a nice package.

[RichP]

:thumbsup: to some great looking hardware.

Now you just need to program MSV70 properly and you'll have quite a nice package.

I completely agree; you guys have definitely spared no expense with the hardware and design thus far. I hope you have some working trickery to get that car running now! :rocks:

[timzerofive]

HELL naw you crazy its about 2k my friend has a t3/t4 turbo accord and he got it done for around 2k.

...
:rolleyes:

[HorsepowerFreak]

Thanks guys. Pricing will be closer to the $10K mark. I wish this kit was as easy as a civic kit or eclipse kit. We do sell turbo kits for some cars for $1500 but that just isn't going to be possible here.

I've been driving the car back and forth to and from work without issues so far (running minimal to no boost). We now need to focus on the electronics so that we can run boost. This phase will begin today. I'll keep you all posted.

Take care,
Chris.

[longtran]

very nice.....

[ALPINE6SPD]

cant wait to see the results. You plan on running it at the track so we can see some real world numbers?

[kt157]

i think the price should be comparable to the turbo kuts for the is300

[lux.sh]

i think the price should be comparable to the turbo kuts for the is300

My thoughts exactly. IS300 turbo kits are very expensive.
Afterall, who expects BMW turbo kit to be cheap...

[kt157]

u can get a turbo/ superchager kit for the is300 for around 5-6k

[BMW_E90]

...
:rolleyes:
yea roll your eyes... you cant prove me wrong. the accords hitting 14 flat with a slippin clutch. isnt too bad for a accord. although is quite fast on the freeways (spanked a stock evo 8) when it was only boost 7.9 i believe, now its boosting 9)

[lux.sh]

yea roll your eyes... you cant prove me wrong. the accords hitting 14 flat with a slippin clutch. isnt too bad for a accord. although is quite fast on the freeways (spanked a stock evo 8) when it was only boost 7.9 i believe, now its boosting 9)

i don't know why you are keep comparing a bmw's turbo kit to a some family sedan honda hair dryer kit.

14.0 with slipping clutch is impressive. 5g accord? which turbo kit? what motor?

[obLu]

some family sedan honda hair dryer kit

:laughabov

Bahahahahaha

[RichP]

10K for a turbo, until the last 2 years, was the norm for other BMWs (aka the E36 Active Kit) Generally, to FI a BMW is a 5-6K venture, so 10K is a bit on the high end, but not completely out of the question. Look at the hardware these guys are putting on this kit, there is nothing mickey-mouse about it.

I personally think about 5-6K pushes the limit of the market; around 10K and you have to REALLY want a turbo 330 rather than an M3 or something else, especially when this is probably going to be about $1500 or so in labor to install.

mmm....boost...

[timzerofive]

yea roll your eyes... you cant prove me wrong. the accords hitting 14 flat with a slippin clutch. isnt too bad for a accord. although is quite fast on the freeways (spanked a stock evo 8) when it was only boost 7.9 i believe, now its boosting 9)

I'm rolling my eyes not because I dont believe you, I'm rolling my eyes because you want a fully custom setup BMW kit to be the same price as an Accord turbo, that's just not going to happen. Why? Accord kit shares a lot of part with civic/integra, which means the parts are mass produced, which in terms translates into lower price. In addition, tuning of an turbo accord is a lot simpler than tuning a BMW. Why? Simple ECU setup. An ApexiS-AFC is pretty much sufficient for the FMS.

That time and power is quite believable for an Accord, but I'm betting the motor probably received some work also. Otherwise the guy's got some balls running 9lbs with no motorwork on a non-H22 motor. He will probably blow the motor pretty soon if he pushes it everyday. A honda motor is so easy to turbo its not even funny. My friend had turboed his 4 door 96 civic non-vtec with used parts for under $1000 since he did the labor himself.

Would I want that on my BMW? Nope. He didn't change the fuel pump, FPR, fuel rail, injectors, cams, pistons, clutch, flywheel, nothing. In fact, he used regular rubber hose as fuel lines!!! All he did was hooked up an afc and put in 91 gas. That's ghetto turbo for you.

If these guys can keep the price under $15k I would be impressed. Well... actually depends on what's included with the kit I guess. Perhaps throw in some goodies like upgraded clutch/flywheel, upgraded wastegate and bov, exhaust, some gauges (oil pres, exhaust temp, boost gauge), and electronic boost control... etc, to make the deal sweeter.

[trurace]

^^^^^^ I completly agree with you. My friend just blew his H22 a couple weeks ago at like 10 or 11 psi.

And i doubt he was "spanking" any evo's. It is possible for a accord but at 7psi thats pretty hard to believe. Unless his car was tuned to perfection.

$10,000 is alot of money but you people have to realize that it is a BMW!!!!! Anything you put on a BMW has to be prefect

^^^^^ and im sure the kit will come with some pretty good stuff he already mentioned its coming with a catalytic converter (thats pretty good)

[BMW_E90]

I'm rolling my eyes not because I dont believe you, I'm rolling my eyes because you want a fully custom setup BMW kit to be the same price as an Accord turbo, that's just not going to happen. Why? Accord kit shares a lot of part with civic/integra, which means the parts are mass produced, which in terms translates into lower price. In addition, tuning of an turbo accord is a lot simpler than tuning a BMW. Why? Simple ECU setup. An ApexiS-AFC is pretty much sufficient for the FMS.

That time and power is quite believable for an Accord, but I'm betting the motor probably received some work also. Otherwise the guy's got some balls running 9lbs with no motorwork on a non-H22 motor. He will probably blow the motor pretty soon if he pushes it everyday. A honda motor is so easy to turbo its not even funny. My friend had turboed his 4 door 96 civic non-vtec with used parts for under $1000 since he did the labor himself.

Would I want that on my BMW? Nope. He didn't change the fuel pump, FPR, fuel rail, injectors, cams, pistons, clutch, flywheel, nothing. In fact, he used regular rubber hose as fuel lines!!! All he did was hooked up an afc and put in 91 gas. That's ghetto turbo for you.

If these guys can keep the price under $15k I would be impressed. Well... actually depends on what's included with the kit I guess. Perhaps throw in some goodies like upgraded clutch/flywheel, upgraded wastegate and bov, exhaust, some gauges (oil pres, exhaust temp, boost gauge), and electronic boost control... etc, to make the deal sweeter.
dude he said "i agree 5k is like the price for an integra's turbo upgrade." thats y i said he's crazy and the accord is a custom turbo kit done by L's a pretty impressive garage. the accord has no motor work stock accord f23, he's running fine daily driven.

[BMW_E90]

^^^^^^ I completly agree with you. My friend just blew his H22 a couple weeks ago at like 10 or 11 psi.

And i doubt he was "spanking" any evo's. It is possible for a accord but at 7psi thats pretty hard to believe. Unless his car was tuned to perfection.

$10,000 is alot of money but you people have to realize that it is a BMW!!!!! Anything you put on a BMW has to be prefect

^^^^^ and im sure the kit will come with some pretty good stuff he already mentioned its coming with a catalytic converter (thats pretty good)
no 1 believed that the accord could spank a stock evo on the honda forums and they even acused the evo driver that he probably couldnt drive, prove them all wrong at a meet. if u cant believe me bring a stock evo on with some cash. he'd run you any day. and yes the accord was tunned at L's motorworks also and he's also on hondata.(forgot to mention)

[diesel007]

I'll still take the e46 m3. I had a supercharged Integra running 10psi. That thing was nothing but problems. The BMW is a way more complicated setup.

Impressive setup though. We need tuners like this for our e90's. Without them we would all be rolling stock cars, (not that there is anything wrong with that).

[timzerofive]

dude he said "i agree 5k is like the price for an integra's turbo upgrade." thats y i said he's crazy and the accord is a custom turbo kit done by L's a pretty impressive garage. the accord has no motor work stock accord f23, he's running fine daily driven.

A greddy kit for an integ is almost $5gs with the intercooler. Not that crazy. Running stock motor... I wonder how long will it last.
......................................

Not too hard to believe a custom turbo vehicle can outrun an EVO at top speed on the freeway. Afterall, the EVO's turbo is not THAT big. My old car outran an EVO on the freeway, but thats after passing 120mph. The big T3/T4 doesn't completely open up until top end. But with only 9lb and no motor work, then I'm skeptic.

[diesel007]

A greddy kit for an integ is almost $5gs with the intercooler. Not that crazy. Running stock motor... I wonder how long will it last.

Depends on how much psi. 7-10 will be fine. Anything higher then that and you will have some serious reliability issues.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Any car can be modded to go extremely fast. It's all about how much you want to spend and how unreliable you want your car to be. I have a 9 second Supra (hopefully 8 second this year) which is quite fast but it cost an arm and a leg and likes to break parts. We will also be debuting a 500whp EVO this year which has all HorsepowerFreaks mods that should be pretty impressive as well.

This kit is far more complicated and complex than the turbo kits we've built for other cars. There are a lot of parts that you would not even consider needing for other turbo kits that are required to meet my 6 rules of success for this product. The car is also considerably more money as I spent $100K for both the 530i and 330i which are being used as gunea pigs. This is a high risk endeavor, and we wouldn't want BMW owners that spend $45K on a 330 to have to take these chances. The car must drive like's it's stock, appear stock looking, run as smooth as stock, have stock-like reliability, no check engine lights and hopefully pass emissions testing. This is very very complicated and there are a lot of parts to this kit.

I built these turbo kits because I wanted to have a couple nice luxury cars to drive that had hidden, quiet, unexpected, tire smoking power paired with exceptional handling. I also knew that when I did, others with the same desire would want them as well.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. :)

Chris.

[poldim]

^^^^^^ I completly agree with you. My friend just blew his H22 a couple weeks ago at like 10 or 11 psi.

And i doubt he was "spanking" any evo's. It is possible for a accord but at 7psi thats pretty hard to believe. Unless his car was tuned to perfection.

$10,000 is alot of money but you people have to realize that it is a BMW!!!!! Anything you put on a BMW has to be prefect

^^^^^ and im sure the kit will come with some pretty good stuff he already mentioned its coming with a catalytic converter (thats pretty good)


I think 10K would be the realistc limit. 15K is just rediculas. When you consider that the base price of a 330 is 36K and the 325 is 31K, 15% would be about 40% and 50% respectively. Thats just plain stupid.

No kit is going to be perfect. At least nothing that can be produced in so little time as I'm sure the E90 is not the only thing in Chris' life and anyone else whos working on this project. Nearly all, aftermarket turbo's for cars that werent factory turbo'ed require you to spend time under the hood checking everything and making sure nothing ever fucks up.

[poldim]

A greddy kit for an integ is almost $5gs with the intercooler. Not that crazy. Running stock motor... I wonder how long will it last.
......................................

Not too hard to believe a custom turbo vehicle can outrun an EVO at top speed on the freeway. Afterall, the EVO's turbo is not THAT big. My old car outran an EVO on the freeway, but thats after passing 120mph. The big T3/T4 doesn't completely open up until top end. But with only 9lb and no motor work, then I'm skeptic.


I turbo'ed my integra and the greddy kit is way over priced. Drag kit and Rev hard kits are much better with a wastegate upgrade. Full race kit is a wonderful kit for about 3.5K.

[trurace]

"although is quite fast on the freeways (spanked a stock evo 8)"
"no 1 believed that the accord could spank a stock evo"
ummmm........................ But anyways, yea hondata is pretty sick with ECU's. With that it would probably pull a little on the EVO.

^^^^^^HorsepowerFreak. You guys are doing a NICE job. That kit is one of the cleanest kits ive seen. Just spray that intercooler piping black and no1 will even know your boosting. Im already saving up for my kit : ). Good Luck with the kits

P.S. There is a 500whp EVO in Miami. Words can not explain how fast that thing is. Good luck with yours

[ldpantoja]

10K? Another 15K and you can get yourself an M5 Engine!!!

[HorsepowerFreak]

For those that have an E46 M3, we will have our turbo kits for that car ready for debut at Bimmerfest this April. Those turbo kits will be based on the E90 turbo kit with the exception that the tuning will be done with an ECU reprogram by Technik.

Those turbo kits will be utilizing the same GT32 turbo good to low 400rwhp. However, the turbo housings we're using will allow both cars to achieve 500rwhp with some custom tweaks to the turbo.

I'll have a video of the E46 turbo kit in approximately one month.

Take care,
Chris.

[hunter399]

How is the 330 comming?
Anything new?

[sunchild]

Great, I'm a fan of your work Chris.

[aapriadi]

awesome job chris!! as soon as i graduate in spring 07, i'm shipping my car to OR for that turbo kit provided that u really are gonna build the turbo kit for 325i =)

[EVO_S4]

P.S. There is a 500whp EVO in Miami. Words can not explain how fast that thing is. Good luck with yours

OT Are you refering to Chris Evo (the black one that tune by AMS of Chi)I think he just hit 903AWHP

and I notice that HPF that you guys have 4in turbo-back exhaust for the Evo, any chance you guys to so sort exhaust upgrade for the E90 with the Turbo kit

[BMW0]

'Vorsprung Durch Technik'

German for 'Progress through technology'

[poldim]

'Vorsprung Durch Technik'

German for 'Progress through technology'
:cool!:

[tmon25]

Have you guys tried GT2871R or a GT30? Just curious. If the kit includes FMIC I'd say it's reasonably priced. I think 10K is OK but can be still dropped to 8K. GT32 is one big turbo. I don't know the market for people that are willing to spend that much but 8K sounds more agreeable in my ears. But, hey this is your product. I'm just giving my .02 cents and I know you spent over 100K on R&D already. I don't know if your able to drop the price by having options on different turbos. It might give you a broader price range and market? Just an FYI.

BTW, are you guys going to also produce or thinking of producing this for a 325i.

[timzerofive]

10K? Another 15K and you can get yourself an M5 Engine!!!

Then you'll need another $10k for the 7 speed tranny, then probably another $10k just to get it installed

[HorsepowerFreak]

The 330 is coming along well. We're definitely building a kit for the 325, but we pre-empted that development with the E46 M3 turbo kit. The 325 kit will be ready this fall so stay tuned.

EVO_S4...We will make an exhaust upgrade, but for the first stage I want the sleeper approach. Plus the exhaust flows pretty damn good from the factory anyway.

sunchild... Thanks. :)

tmon25... I chose the GT32 over it's smaller counterparts for a few reasons #1) this turbo will work for our stage 1 and 2 (and can be modified with a different wheel to make 500rwhp) #2) there's minimal lag with this turbo #3) it's internally gated, #4) it flows better than it's smaller counterparts.

It's actually cheaper for us to use one turbo than to make variations for different turbo types. Hence the larger turbo choice. :)

Thanks for the feedback on the pricing. We're still putting together our costs on these kits so pricing will be unveiled when we're ready to begin selling them.

Take care,
Chris.

[Scarabeo]

I own a 325 as well and look forward to purchasing the kit as soon as it comes out. Keep up the excellent work!
http://x2.putfile.com/1/3015590018-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/3015590018.jpg&s=x2)

Recent damage from a head on collision (not my fault!):
http://x2.putfile.com/1/3014111882-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/3014111882.jpg&s=x2)

[poldim]

Any updates?

[HorsepowerFreak]

We've had to design and build a few more components to make this work which has set us back a couple weeks. The installation needs to be as simple as possible, so we've created a lot of custom components that make everything simply bolt together. We did run 8psi on it but it was only for a split second to test a few things. We're getting closer though. We're shooting for a price right around $8900. I hope to be able to maintain this. If we have to develop any more parts this may go up slightly but I can absorb some of those costs.

Take care,
Chris.

[longtran]

The 330 is coming along well. We're definitely building a kit for the 325, but we pre-empted that development with the E46 M3 turbo kit. The 325 kit will be ready this fall so stay tuned.

EVO_S4...We will make an exhaust upgrade, but for the first stage I want the sleeper approach. Plus the exhaust flows pretty damn good from the factory anyway.

sunchild... Thanks. :)

tmon25... I chose the GT32 over it's smaller counterparts for a few reasons #1) this turbo will work for our stage 1 and 2 (and can be modified with a different wheel to make 500rwhp) #2) there's minimal lag with this turbo #3) it's internally gated, #4) it flows better than it's smaller counterparts.

It's actually cheaper for us to use one turbo than to make variations for different turbo types. Hence the larger turbo choice. :)

Thanks for the feedback on the pricing. We're still putting together our costs on these kits so pricing will be unveiled when we're ready to begin selling them.

Take care,
Chris.
please excuse me for being a dumbass in turbo. when you say 500rwhp, what does that mean??? please give me a turbo 101 lesson. thanks....

[Squawks]

500 rwhp means 500 hp exhibited from the rear wheels as if you are doing a dyno run *via the wheels*.

Then there are crank dynos where the power from the crank is measured, dismissing the power losses from the friction in turning all the axles/weight to get the wheels to spin.

[lux.sh]

longtran, 500rwhp doesn't necessarily mean about turbo.

Its just power figure, 500 rear-wheel-horsepower. He said this turbo will work for both stage 1 and 2. Usually, when you up the stage on turbo kits, you upgrade/add parts and pump out more horses. So they are probably saying this turbo kit with stage 2 setup, will be capable of 500rwhp. Which is alot. ALOT.

EDIT: Squawks beat me to it.

[longtran]

500 rwhp means 500 hp exhibited from the rear wheels as if you are doing a dyno run *via the wheels*.

Then there are crank dynos where the power from the crank is measured, dismissing the power losses from the friction in turning all the axles/weight to get the wheels to spin.



longtran, 500rwhp doesn't necessarily mean about turbo.

Its just power figure, 500 rear-wheel-horsepower. He said this turbo will work for both stage 1 and 2. Usually, when you up the stage on turbo kits, you upgrade/add parts and pump out more horses. So they are probably saying this turbo kit with stage 2 setup, will be capable of 500rwhp. Which is alot. ALOT.

EDIT: Squawks beat me to it.
thanks guys. i know nothing about turbo and supercharger but i better learn about it. i am geting a supercharger for my car... :burnrubbe so 500rhhp is that same as saying the car have 500hp?

[AW330i]

thanks guys. i know nothing about turbo and supercharger but i better learn about it. i am geting a supercharger for my car... :burnrubbe so 500rhhp is that same as saying the car have 500hp?

Well manufacturers quote power at the crank so that the number sounds bigger, for example my 330i has 255hp at the crank but a signifigantly smaller amount of power actually at the rear wheels. So in a since 500 rwhp is very impressive because it is much faster than a car that is quoted by a manufacturer to be 500 hp... Do you get where I am going with this?

[longtran]

Well manufacturers quote power at the crank so that the number sounds bigger, for example my 330i has 255hp at the crank but a signifigantly smaller amount of power actually at the rear wheels. So in a since 500 rwhp is very impressive because it is much faster than a car that is quoted by a manufacturer to be 500 hp... Do you get where I am going with this?
yes. i think i got it. so when they say the car have 255 hp, really mean 255 to the wheel? what is actual hp of the car itself? :confused2 :bonk:

[Squawks]

The wheel power rating will always be lower than the crank power because of power loss due to all the gears/friction involved in turning the rear wheel axle.

So if the crank is rated at 255 hp, the wheel rating will always be lower because it is thereotically impossible to not lose any power from friction/heat as gears rub against each other (in addition to turning more weight) to transfer power from the crankshaft of the engine to spinning the rear wheel axle.

BMW does an exceptionally good job in conserving power from the crank to the wheel. For example - the 325i dyno'd was rated at 201 whp (from 215 at the crank) which means that about 6.5% of the power was lost through the drivetrain: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801

As on the same thread, using the thereotical loss of 6.5%, that would mean the 330i would have roughly 238 at the wheels.

[longtran]

The wheel power rating will always be lower than the crank power because of power loss due to all the gears/friction involved in turning the rear wheel axle.

So if the crank is rated at 255 hp, the wheel rating will always be lower because it is thereotically impossible to not lose any power from friction/heat as gears rub against each other (in addition to turning more weight) to transfer power from the crankshaft of the engine to spinning the rear wheel axle.

BMW does an exceptionally good job in conserving power from the crank to the wheel. For example - the 325i dyno'd was rated at 201 whp (from 215 at the crank) which means that about 6.5% of the power was lost through the drivetrain: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801

As on the same thread, using the thereotical loss of 6.5%, that would mean the 330i would have roughly 238 at the wheels.
ok all cleared up. thanks.

[EVO_S4]

We've had to design and build a few more components to make this work which has set us back a couple weeks. The installation needs to be as simple as possible, so we've created a lot of custom components that make everything simply bolt together. We did run 8psi on it but it was only for a split second to test a few things. We're getting closer though. We're shooting for a price right around $8900. I hope to be able to maintain this. If we have to develop any more parts this may go up slightly but I can absorb some of those costs.

Take care,
Chris.

Can we get a Groupbuy for around $7500shipped

[poldim]

probably not...

[aapriadi]

damn $8900 for the turbo kit, better start saving hehe!! will the turbo kit for 325i cost the same?

[Artz 330]

The wheel power rating will always be lower than the crank power because of power loss due to all the gears/friction involved in turning the rear wheel axle.

So if the crank is rated at 255 hp, the wheel rating will always be lower because it is thereotically impossible to not lose any power from friction/heat as gears rub against each other (in addition to turning more weight) to transfer power from the crankshaft of the engine to spinning the rear wheel axle.

BMW does an exceptionally good job in conserving power from the crank to the wheel. For example - the 325i dyno'd was rated at 201 whp (from 215 at the crank) which means that about 6.5% of the power was lost through the drivetrain: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801

As on the same thread, using the thereotical loss of 6.5%, that would mean the 330i would have roughly 238 at the wheels.Doesnt anyone know for sure what the 330s are getting to the wheels? I thought the 6MT is like a 11% powertrain loss? No..??

[lux.sh]

Doesnt anyone know for sure what the 330s are getting to the wheels? I thought the 6MT is like a 11% powertrain loss? No..??

we'll find out when weather gets better and people start going to dynos and dragstrips.

if 325 6MT put down 201whp(which is VERY impressive), 330 6MT should put down anywhere close to 225whp~230whp and more torque.

Im guessing 330i steptronic owners will put down slightly higher number than 325 6MT.

[poldim]

Might be cheaper to find a totaled 335 when they get here.... :D

[HorsepowerFreak]

damn $8900 for the turbo kit, better start saving hehe!! will the turbo kit for 325i cost the same?

The 325i kit will be roughly the same price. I probably won't be doing a group buy on any of these kits. Although if someone else put together and encouraged a bunch of people to buy them to get the price down I may consider it.

That 325i kit won't be ready until late summer, however.

Take care
Chris.

[poldim]

Any new images?

[sunchild]

Would like updated information.

[HorsepowerFreak]

We were waiting for a replacement part from BMW that we're going to incorporate into our kit. As the car is so new, getting OEM parts takes a bit longer than normal. I hope to have some more vids soon.

Chris.

[StewtheBassman]

Great thread, what a pleasure to be part of such a development program.

Chris, you're a pro, keep up the good work!

[poldim]

Caint wait for the vids!!!

[HorsepowerFreak]

Thanks guys.

We've made considerable progress on our E90 in the past few weeks and are nearing the end of our tuning process. Flawless driveability, absolutely smooth transition of power, and the car just keeps on pulling. We've been gradually turning up the boost and are now at 6.5psi. We're going to turn the boost up a bit more tomorrow and take some vids. Shortly we will strap it down to the dyno and see what it puts out. It is definitely a LOT faster than it was. I'll keep you all posted.

Take care,
Chris.

[ALPINE6SPD]

This sounds great. I cant wait for the vids.

[hunter399]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[335e90]

Please post videos as soon as you can, they probably will be the highlight of my day :)

[golfer29]

Nice video on your website

For those interested, go to
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/BMW/330/performance/Turbos/Turbo_Kits

click the video link

[Hula-Hula]

thanx for the vid, looks promising! :)

[longtran]

Nice video on your website

For those interested, go to
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/BMW/330/performance/Turbos/Turbo_Kits

click the video link
thats the old video. i think he was talking about a new one. looks good still. :drool:

[poldim]

Nice video on your website

For those interested, go to
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/BMW/330/performance/Turbos/Turbo_Kits

click the video link






As he try's to sneak it by us :D





Now just need the video of it on the dyno...



:drink: :dance:

[hunter399]

Wheres the videooooo

I have been waiting all day!

[HorsepowerFreak]

Wheres the videooooo

I have been waiting all day!

Sorry about the delay. The wideband we were using took a dump today. We're putting another one in tomorrow. I'm going to try to take some footage tomorrow. I'll post it up here shortly.

Chris.

[335e90]

What's Wideband?

[poldim]

cant wait....

[335e90]

Hey, hows the turbo coming? I want to see the video soooo bad, when do you think you will have it up?

[will]

What's Wideband?

A wideband o2 sensor operates on a voltage range of 0 to 5 volts. Where as a narrow sensor only gives a range of 0 to 1 volt.

The greater range allows for a more precise measurement of the air/fuel ratio in the exhaust, which allows for a more precise tune.

[335e90]

Thanks will!

[porscheneer]

Question? Is your turbo kit sanctioned by BMW NA and does it affect the vehicle warranty?

Please note the fourth line of the original post and deduce a logical answer... :bonk: .... come on ben your setting yourself up!

[HorsepowerFreak]

Sorry about the delay in producing the video. It has snowed here the last 2 days, and the weather has been altogether crappy. I really need dry roads to be safe and do a good video. I'll keep you posted. I hope to get this done soon.

Chris.

[poldim]

We'll be waiting to drool...

[325 Baller]

looks great, cant wait to see the final product.

[335e90]

Man.....I've been checking the weather in Portland almost daily and to sum it up:it sucks. Is rain the only kind of weather you have there? If this keeps up, just drive the car down to Houston, no rain to worry about here :). According to the weather report it looks like you might be able to do the video Sunday....I guess that just gives you guys more time to perfect it for the video :thumbsup:

[poldim]

Man.....I've been checking the weather in Portland almost daily and to sum it up:it sucks. Is rain the only kind of weather you have there? If this keeps up, just drive the car down to Houston, no rain to worry about here :). According to the weather report it looks like you might be able to do the video Sunday....I guess that just gives you guys more time to perfect it for the video :thumbsup:



There is a reason Seattle is known as the Rain City....Its probably second to London...

[obLu]

Actually we just came off of 3 days of beautiful sunny weather ... of course, those were the only 3 days we had all month. We almost set a record for most consecutive rainy days. I think it was somewhere in the high twenties?

I have to get out of this place.

[poldim]

I want to get out of the north east....its overcast for about ~300 days of the year....

[HorsepowerFreak]

E90 Turbo Kit Release Delayed (with no eta)

Tuning the E90 has been more difficult than expected. The computer immediately overrides any changes we make to the A:F mixture under boost. The computer in this vehicle is always in closed loop and always monitoring the A:F via several factory wide-bands. Any changes made to the factory fuel pressure are compensated for by the ECU. The stock fuel pressure is 70psi. We've gone so far as to increase it to 120psi which takes the computer only 1 second to drop the injector duty cycle to compensate for the increased fuel pressure. It is quite amazing, however, it makes it so we cannot get the A:F ratio down to a safe 11:1 under boost. It will go there for a brief second, then will rise back up to 14:1. In a few cases the car has stayed at 11:1 up to around 8psi of boost and it pulled very hard. However, it appears that once the car gets warmed up, it tries to compensate for this fuel pressure increase.

Samir from Technik will be tuning our M3 E46 turbo kit (shown in the picture below) shortly, and we hope that over time he will be able to crack the E90 ECU, so we can sell the E90 turbo kit. If anyone has any ideas to help us, we'd be happy to hear them.

Here is a teaser pick of our M3 turbo kit which will be released shortly.

Take care,
Chris.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m3turbokit/HPFM3Front.jpg

[abeaujuin]

Why don't you just stick with 5 psi? 5psi feels great on any car.

Will the computer still adjust at that low amount of boost?

[335e90]

Why don't you just stick with 5 psi? 5psi feels great on any car.

Will the computer still adjust at that low amount of boost?
Please don't! Just keep trying new things. A 8k turbo kit wouldn't justify the price if it can only run 5 pounds of boost.

[Romulus]

Why don't you just stick with 5 psi? 5psi feels great on any car.

Will the computer still adjust at that low amount of boost?


who wants to pay 10,000 bucks for 60-70 hp? :smash:

[abeaujuin]

Stage I = $4k tops 5 PSI
Stage II = $6k tops 8PSI
Stage III = Since it will be a little difficult to push, charge what ever you want.

[EVO_S4]

Stage I = $4k tops 5 PSI
Stage II = $6k tops 8PSI
Stage III = Since it will be a little difficult to push, charge what ever you want.

for that price I be first inline for the Stage 1, but in the real world that will never happen

[mundo74]

Stage I = $4k tops 5 PSI
Stage II = $6k tops 8PSI
Stage III = Since it will be a little difficult to push, charge what ever you want.

abeaujuin makes a good point. If for say 4-$5K we get a drivable and stock ECU friendly 5 psi turbo kit then I think we may be on to something. I am not sure if everyone interested in a turbo kit for their E90 wants to make 400+ whp. Once we start getting big numbers then you have to factor the cost of other unintended parts. Brakes, suspension, racing clutch, and other driveline costs/mods all for a car that is still under warranty. If 5psi brings it to 300Hp and gives a hard pull for 4-$5K, then the supposedly 335i may have some competition.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Stage I = $4k tops 5 PSI
Stage II = $6k tops 8PSI
Stage III = Since it will be a little difficult to push, charge what ever you want.

I'd love to be able to sell the kits for that cheap, however, our cost is far more than those figures. I was running 8psi a few occasions where the computer didn't changes A:F ratios, and it felt like a good 125-150 rwhp increase. But, we'll have to wait until we can address the computer issues before we can sell any of these kits anyway.

Take care,
Chris.

[poldim]

I had a feeling something like this could happen after the problems I'm having getting my HID Fogs to work....

Stupid BMW for making their ECU adjust to any and all variable fluctuations. It seems they have inevitably made the car mod-proof. Or maybe that was their intention...

[abeaujuin]

I know some people don't like to do this, but why don't you guys get some help from Greddy they make turbo kits for many cars. Look at the link below, it's for a Nissan 350Z

http://www.autocarparts.com/part/1187/1

Greddy uses e-Manage to control the larger injectors and other issues that may arise from installing a turbo kit.

I've actually been in one running 5psi and it feels great!

[Artz 330]

So the car ran on 5psi of boost with no problems, on the stock ECU without you having to play with the ECU? Or did you play with the ECU while running 5psi. Little more details please. :confused2 :confused2

[abeaujuin]

I was talking about a Nissan 350z with a Greddy Turbo Kit.

[HorsepowerFreak]

So the car ran on 5psi of boost with no problems, on the stock ECU without you having to play with the ECU? Or did you play with the ECU while running 5psi. Little more details please. :confused2 :confused2

Without any ECU mods, the ECU controlled the car fairly well if you didn't boost. At 3 psi, the car ran pretty normal, but the turbo wouldn't allow us to run that low of boost with the internal wastegate. At 5psi or more, the car would not richen the mixture up as we would like via the ECU. When we added a separate fuel system to richen it up, the ECU immediately noticed the mixture change and put it back where it wanted to be (too lean)

We will most likely have a solution to this problem some point here in the near future. Technik, who is doing the ECU flash for our M3 turbo kits will be helping us resolve these issues.

I just finished driving our Turbo'd M3 today. Today, we're shipping the car to Technik to be tuned. Here's a really quick video I took before the transport comes.

Broadband M3 Turbo Kit Video Clip (http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/videos/m3turbokit/HPFM3TurboKit_broad.wmv)

Dial-up M3 Turbo Kit Video Clip (http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/videos/m3turbokit/HPFM3TurboKit_dialup.wmv)

Take care,
Chris.

[poldim]

Do you guys have any videos of how the car performs?

[335e90]

I know some people don't like to do this, but why don't you guys get some help from Greddy they make turbo kits for many cars. Look at the link below, it's for a Nissan 350Z

http://www.autocarparts.com/part/1187/1

Greddy uses e-Manage to control the larger injectors and other issues that may arise from installing a turbo kit.

I've actually been in one running 5psi and it feels great!

That would be like superspint asking eismann to make them an exhaust.........pretty pointless :bonk: :bonk:

[abeaujuin]

Asking should never hurt anyone. The worst that can be said is "No"


I boy will feel shame...

But a man, a real man can walk on...

And produce the best work ever...

[JO3]

Can't you intercept the O2 sensor signals and condition them so that the ECU thinks it's getting the right mixture while you richen it up?

[335e90]

Asking should never hurt anyone. The worst that can be said is "No"


I boy will feel shame...

But a man, a real man can walk on...

And produce the best work ever...

I meant to say asking would defeat the whole purpose of them making the kit. If Greddy makes the turbo kit for them, then they are nothing more than a distributer. I don't think it would make sense for Greddy to let Horsepowerfreaks capitalize on their work. Anyways horsepowerfreaks don't need any help, they're good enough to figure it out. :)

[poldim]

Can't you intercept the O2 sensor signals and condition them so that the ECU thinks it's getting the right mixture while you richen it up?
This is a pretty common method. I've never heard of it being done with widebands, but I dont see it being any different. If you can figure out what the car needs to see to produce 12:1, then that should be all you need.....

[JO3]

This is a pretty common method. I've never heard of it being done with widebands, but I dont see it being any different. If you can figure out what the car needs to see to produce 12:1, then that should be all you need.....
That's what I was thinking as well. In fact, if your fuel pump and injectors are up to the task, you could fool the ECM to give you the fuel you need.

Of course, I'm no professional tuner, and I'm probably oversimplifying the problem. Just curious to see what I'm missing.

[ZenDriver]

Hey HorsepowerFreak guy- how much is a new head gasket for an E90? Word on the street is that you should know.

KaaaaaaaaaBoom....

:smoking:

[335e90]

Chris,
I bet you could make a small fortune by selling us downpipes to replace our cats with. Would you be willing to make them? Also, Would it be easy to replace cats with a downpipe and vice versa?

[sunchild]

you guys are talking to horsepower freak like he doesn't know what he's doing.

[RichP]

I have some experience with this tuning arena for FI, and generally speaking, you just cant have a "black box" on the O2 sensor signal, or MAF input signal, apply some level of signal correction to the readings and fool the ECU into thinking everything is normal. The ECU generally either throw codes (because it can sense even the slightest deviation from what things should be) or will adapt itself around the correction.

I mentioned my doubts earlier on about this project, and although I was correct, having talked to Chris, I think they will eventually realize a solution. Their partnership with Technic will only help. Horsepower freaks know quite a bit about FI, the BMW ECU though, is a totally different animal than its Japanese and Domestic counterparts.

Hell, our ECU has to be advanced to control these motors!

[T7R_Sky]

Hey, I was just wondering, cause I dont really know much about re-flashing the ECU to make it work with the turbo... but i wanted to know if that means the speed limiter will be removed also. Like my car now is limited at 135. Will I be able to go full speed after the re-flash?

[poldim]

Hey, I was just wondering, cause I dont really know much about re-flashing the ECU to make it work with the turbo... but i wanted to know if that means the speed limiter will be removed also. Like my car now is limited at 135. Will I be able to go full speed after the re-flash?

Why would you want to go faster than 135?



The 135 means you dont have sport and you have a 325. Without the suspension, its very dangerous, not that its that much safer with ZSP. With the 325, I dont think you will go faster than 145-150.

:confused2

[hunter399]

I dont think having the sport package will make the car any safer at those speeds...

[Romulus]

Why would you want to go faster than 135?



The 135 means you dont have sport and you have a 325. Without the suspension, its very dangerous, not that its that much safer with ZSP. With the 325, I dont think you will go faster than 145-150.

:confused2

top speed is a factor of tires, not suspension.. in this case.

[Artz 330]

any news yet on the ECU tunning and what the Est. date for the release of the Turbo kit is.

[jhbodle]

Why would you want to go faster than 135?



The 135 means you dont have sport and you have a 325. Without the suspension, its very dangerous, not that its that much safer with ZSP. With the 325, I dont think you will go faster than 145-150.

:confused2
My Euro 325i with standard suspension isn't electronically limited and will go 152mph according to BMW. :)

[T7R_Sky]

So... whats the news with the ECU? Horsepowerfreak, you got any good news for us? lol.

[335e90]

Yes, please tell us how things are going

[edy74]

:help: Does anybody knows how can i add more power to my 318i? :help:

[E90Boy]

They're taking way too long to build this turbo, I'll spend my 12k or so on the 335i and it comes with two turbos warrantied. GL if you can get it to be cheaper and work with the ECU.

[ALPINE6SPD]

:help: Does anybody knows how can i add more power to my 318i? :help:

Take the engine out and drop in an e36 M3 motor. Or just turbo it.

[edy74]

Take the engine out and drop in an e36 M3 motor. Or just turbo it.
By adding a turbo, how much power i get? depends on the turbo? :confused2
i really need help, i'm new to this kind of stuff .
THX :bow:

[HorsepowerFreak]

Bimmerfest was awesome this year. It was nice meeting everyone who attended. We had both our turbo'd M3 and our turbo'd E90 there.

We have recently discovered some software that can tune the factory E90 ECU, so we have temporarily stopped our quest to get the piggybacks to function optimally in all situations. Our tuner is flying to Germany to test and get trained on this new software. If all goes well, we will be tuning the E90 without piggybacks within a month or so.

We've made some slightly modifications to our M3 turbo kit based on feedback we've received from Technik. They now have the modified pieces and are back to tuning. We hope to have some dyno and track results for the M3 next month.

abeaujuin... GReddy does indeed make some nice kits. Prior to developing a product we always look at any and all competitive products to ensure ours will exceed the requirements our competitors based their kits on.

JO3... Yes we can. I've put a hold on the final stages of our piggy-back testing however.

ZenDriver... I'm not familiar with the head gasket price, but we will be developing a thicker head gasket for our stage 2 and 3 kits. We have a lot of oars in the water with many different vehicles and many other projects. I sometimes have to shuffle things around based on priorities which is why the E90 is waiting for the new software. We are now partnered with Amazon.com. I just completed the merchandizing, inventory and accounting integration. Our store-front on amazon is here www.amazon.com/Horsepowerfreaks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/103-6514181-1764635?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=A3TYWMHL1EBP1B).

335e90... Yes, we will also be building downpipes and exhaust systems. I'm not sure yet if I will be making downpipes for those that aren't going to run our turbo kits. If there are a lot of people interested, we will definitely do that.

RichP... Yes. On our trip down to Bimmerfest, JR and I figured out a way to get over the last piggy-back issue. We will only implement this if the ECU flash option does not work out.

T7R_Sky... Yes, we will certainly remove the speed limiter. Especially with our stage 3 kit where 135mph may be achieved before the end of the 1/4 mile. :)

Artz 330... I have no estimated date for the release of the E90 kit. Once our tuner gets back from Germany, we will re-do our project plan and hopefully get a release date some time this summer.

edy74... We currently have no current plans to do a 318.

Thanks for all of the questions. I'll keep the updates coming.

Take care,
Chris.

[Artz 330]

Bimmerfest was awesome this year. It was nice meeting everyone who attended. We had both our turbo'd M3 and our turbo'd E90 there.

We have recently discovered some software that can tune the factory E90 ECU, so we have temporarily stopped our quest to get the piggybacks to function optimally in all situations. Our tuner is flying to Germany to test and get trained on this new software. If all goes well, we will be tuning the E90 without piggybacks within a month or so.

We've made some slightly modifications to our M3 turbo kit based on feedback we've received from Technik. They now have the modified pieces and are back to tuning. We hope to have some dyno and track results for the M3 next month.

abeaujuin... GReddy does indeed make some nice kits. Prior to developing a product we always look at any and all competitive products to ensure ours will exceed the requirements our competitors based their kits on.

JO3... Yes we can. I've put a hold on the final stages of our piggy-back testing however.

ZenDriver... I'm not familiar with the head gasket price, but we will be developing a thicker head gasket for our stage 2 and 3 kits. We have a lot of oars in the water with many different vehicles and many other projects. I sometimes have to shuffle things around based on priorities which is why the E90 is waiting for the new software. We are now partnered with Amazon.com. I just completed the merchandizing, inventory and accounting integration. Our store-front on amazon is here www.amazon.com/Horsepowerfreaks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/103-6514181-1764635?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=A3TYWMHL1EBP1B).

335e90... Yes, we will also be building downpipes and exhaust systems. I'm not sure yet if I will be making downpipes for those that aren't going to run our turbo kits. If there are a lot of people interested, we will definitely do that.

RichP... Yes. On our trip down to Bimmerfest, JR and I figured out a way to get over the last piggy-back issue. We will only implement this if the ECU flash option does not work out.

T7R_Sky... Yes, we will certainly remove the speed limiter. Especially with our stage 3 kit where 135mph may be achieved before the end of the 1/4 mile. :)

Artz 330... I have no estimated date for the release of the E90 kit. Once our tuner gets back from Germany, we will re-do our project plan and hopefully get a release date some time this summer.

edy74... We currently have no current plans to do a 318.

Thanks for all of the questions. I'll keep the updates coming.

Take care,
Chris.
Sounds good, Good Luck! :thumbsup:

[edy74]

edy74... We currently have no current plans to do a 318.

Thanks for all of the questions. I'll keep the updates coming.

Take care,
Chris.[/QUOTE]



THX. Can you teach me what do I have to do , can you give me any hints to add more power to my engine? :bow: I do not trust the mechanics from Romania, they are not that updated as you, and I dont want to something wrong to my car.......... :help:

[canucklion]

They're taking way too long to build this turbo, I'll spend my 12k or so on the 335i and it comes with two turbos warrantied. GL if you can get it to be cheaper and work with the ECU.

TOO long? :rolleyes: I rather wait for them to do their R&D PROPERLY and come out with a solid tested product than have them rush out some half-ass ones.

Kudos Chris, looks like the development process is going along nicely :thumsup:

[AddyE90]

I am not impressed by the numbers of the 335i turbo. Its one saving grace is a flat long torque curve making it faster than other cars putting out 20-40 more hp in a narrower powerband.

Not sure what the price will be but Im sure it will be at least 42k base. 6+ k to get 45 hp to me is not worth it even if it has a warranty. How you add a twin turbo charger to the same size engine and develop 45 more hp is beyond me.

Hopefully Dinan will put out a supercharger kit for the E90, I am leary about voiding the warranty even the HP freaks stuff looks really good. If not I will just wait for the 400 hp m3 and trade up then - the 15k price difference will well be worth it then for 145 more hp.

The e90 is a great car in every category except for horsepower.

[Garissimo]

I am not impressed by the numbers of the 335i turbo. Its one saving grace is a flat long torque curve making it faster than other cars putting out 20-40 more hp in a narrower powerband.

To each his own, but I probably do over 90% of my driving in the 1200rpm to 5000rpm range. Honestly, what more could you ask for in a daily driven street car? This is what the 335i is designed for, not a racetrack.


Not sure what the price will be but Im sure it will be at least 42k base.

That I agree with.


6+ k to get 45 hp to me is not worth it even if it has a warranty. How you add a twin turbo charger to the same size engine and develop 45 more hp is beyond me.

You need to lower the compression ratio when you go forced induction. It isn't as simple as slapping a turbo on the base engine and calling it a day. That's why aftermarket turbo and supercharger kits for the E46 M3 run so little boost (and still frag head gaskets from what I've heard).

On top of all that, BMW has strict emissions regulations to comply with.


Hopefully Dinan will put out a supercharger kit for the E90, I am leary about voiding the warranty even the HP freaks stuff looks really good. If not I will just wait for the 400 hp m3 and trade up then - the 15k price difference will well be worth it then for 145 more hp.

The HP freaks turbo kit for the E90 looks very interesing. But you're already over the price of the 335i for that kit and you're most definitely over the price of the 335i with a Dinan kit so I'm not sure what your argument is. :confused2


The e90 is a great car in every category except for horsepower.

It holds its own pretty well even with 255hp.

[obLu]

The key is the factory has to be very very conservative. X amount of warranty claims over x amount of units sold = x percent decrease in quartly profit = x perfect in devaluation of the stock, etc blah blah. This isn't the motorsport division.

I'm sure the factory has to engineer in gigantic tolerances and an expected lifetime of 150+ k miles.

The 335 will have 300hp from the factory, but what will it make with an aftermarket chip turning up the wick a bit?

I talked to my dealer about the Dinan warranty ... they stated that any repairs would have to be paid for out of pocket and then a warranty claim submitted to Dinan for reimbursement. The dealer would not orchestrate any of the claims process, the burden was entirely on the customer. Reminds me of a line from a great movie, "Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will." I'm not willing to put myself in the position of having to fight with an aftermarket company (even one as big as Dinan) to pay out a claim on something I've already paid out of pocket and the repair shop has released. That's as worthless to me as crap in a box.

[AddyE90]

"The HP freaks turbo kit for the E90 looks very interesing. But you're already over the price of the 335i for that kit and you're most definitely over the price of the 335i with a Dinan kit so I'm not sure what your argument is. "

Im one of those who put some value in having the sleeper edge (not being stock). So a 330i with 350-375 hp (supercharged) would be slightly more attractive than the M3 with 400 hp stock especially considering the price difference between a loaded 330i and a loaded m3 is likely to be 20k+ and most of the Dinan offerings are under that price range. I do not think they will offer it on the e90 though for several years - the M3 and older models seem to be getting all the love at least of late.

If the HP freaks kit only gives 45hp boost its a complete failure and should not be released - its going to need to get to 325-350hp min to be attractive at 10k.

Dont get me wrong I love my E90 and in second gear if you ride it out it does pack more punch in acel than 255 hp suggests but I dislike having to push my car that hard to slightly beat cars that you feel like having paid 46k you shouldnt have to try to walk away from.

I like the pipes on the 335, I just dont think 6-8k for 45hp is worth it.

[T7R_Sky]

You know what... after reading some of the other posts on the forum, I happened to remember how the 3 series is known i part for its near 50 50 weight distribution. And I was just wondering if the installation of the turbo charger would dramatically change this and if it would have any effect on handling or anything. Of course I may be completely incorrect (since I actually dont know anything about how Turbos effect stuff) but it was just a thought. TIA.

[CSL]

Their needs to be one thing that is understood. A NA bmw engine was designed not to be force induced. Although it can be a complete bolt on and run perfectly safe and fine it was cause excessive wear and tear in the long run.

[lux.sh]

-No, turbocharging a car does not add 1000pds of extra weight in the front.

-Its not just the "BMW"s naturally aspirated engines that is not designed to handle forced induction in the first place. Thats just for any N/A engines out there. Wear & Tear is OBVIOUS. you don't even need to mention that. The engine wears out from its normal form from the factory. Add more power to the stock block, it obviously increases wear and tear. BMW motor isn't glass made motor either. Im sure it can handle some more whp/wtq over its stock numbers, but yes limitation is there. If you are going heavy whp/wtq increase, thats why most people upgrade their internals. Any motor can be always upgraded to handle the extra power from forced induction