Kreis-sieg Valvetronic F1 Exhaust

[Epacy]

Will we see this type of exhaust for the E92 M3 and when?
Ideally, I would like to have the quite mode be the same exact sound as stock, I mean note for note and db for db, and the other mode be the lovely F1. I love the stock exhaust note and it is always nice to retain the stock exhaust sound.

From what I have heard from the M6 and M5 (Videos (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=m6%20kreissieg%20exhaust&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1)) this is the one exhaust I would change out the stock exhaust for. The F1 sound is beyond words and the ultimate in exhaust sound modification, IMO.

Kreis-sieg's USA Site (http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/)

I see the E46 M3 exhaust was $5k, I would expect something relatively similar.

[domer86]

Epacy, I completely agree with ur feelings on the quiet mode. This is exhaust would be simply amazing! I would love to know their estimated release date on this beauty

[domer86]

I actually emailed them about a month ago and recieved no such response

[lucid]

Yes, this stuff's killer, but 2 modes is a must for me since I want a DD, and having it 110% all the time would be too much. You'd attract soooo much attention from the cops though in the F1 mode...

Have you listened to the F430 by the way? Amazing.

[GewoW]

oh. my. god.

[Hamann_M3]

WOW.... decided on my Exhaust! LOL!

[BNR32]

Ah, looks like I've not been the only one waiting for this ;)
I estimate the price will be around $6K+ if they decide to develop one.
One of my favorites is the full f1vt they have on the F430 with the super cats setup :drool:

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/images/F430_Cat_L.jpg
http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/up_file/product_cck_5/F430_main_01-1193153897.jpg

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/videos/f430-7.mpg
http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/videos/f430-6.mpg

[chicagobimmerboy]

Too bad the only people you can go to in order to get a Kreissieg are those bastards at Eisenhaus!!!

[OC kid]

...The F1 sound is beyond words...

^ +1 :bulge:

[OzStriker]

This exhaust is required.

[OC kid]

Ep:

The more time I have to do "research" on this I realize that I want the Kreis-sieg F1. I think it will be important to be able to "switch" back close to stock.

Part of me wants the car to sound like this...

MkLjCYjqGDU&

[Epacy]

Ep:

The more time I have to do "research" on this I realize that I want the Kreis-sieg F1. I think it will be important to be able to "switch" back close to stock.

Part of me wants the car to sound like this...



Uh yeah. I have always LOVED the sound of a CGT with straight pipes.

Love the bit about scaring the locals.

This exhaust will probably happen since they made one for the M5/6. Just can't wait to hear what it sounds like.
Would be really hard not to drop $5k on this.

[OC kid]

so no official eta from them yet?

[K3N R3D]

Ep:

The more time I have to do "research" on this I realize that I want the Kreis-sieg F1. I think it will be important to be able to "switch" back close to stock.

Part of me wants the car to sound like this...

MkLjCYjqGDU&

This video made me laugh my pants off. I would do the same thing just for fun. :lol:

[K3N R3D]

Maybe a group buy is coming :thumbsup:

[Epacy]

I actually emailed them about a month ago and recieved no such response

so no official eta from them yet?

Not sure if Domer ever heard back. Perhaps all who are interested should send them an email and ask. Will show them their is interest.

Looks like you can send them an email here:

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/?_page=11

Or use this address:

info@kreissieg-usa.com



Flood them with emails!!!:D

[Epacy]

Looks like these guys are located in IL, right near O'Hare. They are about 4hrs from me.

Free exhaust for allowing them to test-fit my vehicle sounds about right. :D

[lucid]

Ep:

The more time I have to do "research" on this I realize that I want the Kreis-sieg F1. I think it will be important to be able to "switch" back close to stock.

Part of me wants the car to sound like this...



The part with them driving around town reminds me of the hours I spent trying to learn how to play the trumpet.

[eurotekm3]

just DONT buy it from Eisenhaus......

[Epacy]

Would like a sound like this:

http://www.shell.com/home/content/ferrari-en/downloads/video_clips/circuit_tv_advert/circuit_tv_advert.html

[OC kid]

The response to my query on eta and cost. Note the Eisenhaus referral...


Dear OC kid,

Thank you very much for your interests in Kreissieg F-1 performance units and congrats on your new car purchase.
We are currently under-devlopment for the new E92 M3 exhaust and will be offering them kater this year.
In the meantime, if you want to get a solid sounding and performing exhaust system for your vehicle,
we would also recommend "Meisterschaft" GT or Touring units. Please visit:
http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehdetails.php?selMake=2&selModel=6140&selSub=506&Submit.x=43&Submit.y=11
to view this unit. Thank you again and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at anytime.
thank you.

With best regards,

Kreissieg North America
www.kreissieg-usa.com
Tel: 630.787.1600

[Epacy]

LOL, OC Kid. I just received the same email reply and came here to post it. :thumbsup:

[M-Maika]

This exhaust is required.

Totally agreed.

[Hans Delbruck]

Looks like these guys are located in IL, right near O'Hare. They are about 4hrs from me.

Free exhaust for allowing them to test-fit my vehicle sounds about right. :D

Doooooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

[Eclipse Motors]

Eisenhaus = the frauds that sold Eisenmann branded products that were really Korean knockoffs.

[OzStriker]

For potential overseas customers:

I enquired about purchasing this exhaust from Australia and got the same generic email response with the following addition:

"You can purchase them directly from us when this unit becomes available."

[M-Maika]

For potential overseas customers:

I enquired about purchasing this exhaust from Australia and got the same generic email response with the following addition:

"You can purchase them directly from us when this unit becomes available."

Group buy ???

Keep us informed.

[EisenHaus]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

[Epacy]

Can you explain why the fake exhausts were sold as the original product?

[lucid]

I can't believe Kreis-sieg is relying on these liars as their sole US distributor.

[OC kid]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time.

I am absolutely stunned as I read this...

YOU are the one who should be feeling awkward. You're not sorry for what YOU did, but you're sorry WE'RE "feeling awkward". Was that actually your attempt at an apology?

I'm willing to bet money that anger, not awkwardness, is a better adjective to describe how we feel.

Good Business 101: Don't steal from other companies and lie to your customers.

We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
...So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident

...you're asking for OUR "humble understanding"? It's not the victims' job to be humble, once again you've turned it around...

[OC kid]

I can't believe Kreis-sieg is relying on these liars as their sole US distributor.

Maybe an email campaign to Kreis-seig enlightening them on the business ethics of Eisenhaus is in order, after all, how can we trust that we are getting the real thing from them?

I won't buy from them on principle alone. I am not rewarding that type of behavior.

[lucid]

Maybe an email campaign to Kreis-seig enlightening them on the business ethics of Eisenhaus is in order, after all, how can we trust that we are getting the real thing from them?

I won't buy from them on principle alone. I am not rewarding that type of behavior.

+1.

I'd rather buy directly from Kreis-seig. Maybe we should set up a petition signed by interested M3 owners on the forum for Kreis-seig to find another distributor in the US? They need to have a product first though! :lol:

BTW, you guys realize this is going to be expensive, right? The price is tba, but I might have problems with paying $6k for an exhaust system.

[UltimateBMW]

Just to bring things back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the Kreis-seig brand so I snooped around their webpage briefly and found this description of their system.

Kreissieg¡¯s Type F1 Race exhaust system is a unique design that delivers performance and sound on demand.
Unlike any other exhaust, this system allows the driver complete control over the exhaust¡¯s performance and sound attributes.

With each Type F1 Race design, two exhaust gas paths are configured.

Normal Mode : This path is a traditional path that takes the exhaust through the catalytic converters and muffler chamber before it exits at the rear tips.

F1 Mode : This path bypasses both the catalytic converters* and muffler chamber, thus taking the exhaust straight from the manifold to its exit at the rear tips.
F1 Mode produces the greatest possible horsepower gain with a true F1 race-style sound.

Strategic placement of butterfly valves in the system allows for instantaneous control between Normal and F1 modes.
A switch placed within the cabin controls the valves. With a simple flip of the switch, the driver selects between Normal and F1 modes.

So now my question is, Is driving around with the exhaust set to Open Mode (F1 sound) even legal?

I'm assuming it isn't so my follow-up question is, How legal is it to install an exhaust system that can become illegal at the flick of a switch from inside the cabin? Basically dumps from the sound of their description when its in open mode.

A a flow-chart diagram of their system can be found here. http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/?_page=10&gubun=f1

[Eclipse Motors]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

TOTAL DOUCHEBAGGERY

[Epacy]

Just to bring things back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the Kreis-seig brand so I snooped around their webpage briefly and found this description of their system.



So now my question is, Is driving around with the exhaust set to Open Mode (F1 sound) even legal?

I'm assuming it isn't so my follow-up question is, How legal is it to install an exhaust system that can become illegal at the flick of a switch from inside the cabin? Basically dumps from the sound of their description when its in open mode.

A a flow-chart diagram of their system can be found here. http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/?_page=10&gubun=f1

With alot of mods, they are termed "off-road use only". Will probably be the same for this exhaust. It's no big deal, just something they have to note. Lots of things are like that. Some bulbs you can get to put in your car for exterior lights, replaceing/covering the front reflectors, etc.
It's up to the police officers if they really want to screw you over and write you up for some equipment violations. Only real way to tell for an aftermarket exhaust is if you have mandatory emission control laws or if the cop hears you go buzzing by.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Wow!!! Well, I'll go for a group buy, but hope we don't get nailed!!

[Vmotion]

Ah, looks like I've not been the only one waiting for this ;)
I estimate the price will be around $6K+ if they decide to develop one.
One of my favorites is the full f1vt they have on the F430 with the super cats setup :drool:

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/images/F430_Cat_L.jpg
http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/up_file/product_cck_5/F430_main_01-1193153897.jpg

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/videos/f430-7.mpg
http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/videos/f430-6.mpg


BNR32 - Love your Avatar!

Here is an Exhaust System for you while you wait.

PS - Use IE to view the flash file. I'm having a little trouble seeing it in FF

http://www.vehicularmotion.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=761

[gadget]

+1.

I'd rather buy directly from Kreis-seig. Maybe we should set up a petition signed by interested M3 owners on the forum for Kreis-seig to find another distributor in the US? They need to have a product first though! :lol:

BTW, you guys realize this is going to be expensive, right? The price is tba, but I might have problems with paying $6k for an exhaust system.

+1

On a separate note, where in the car is the switch usually placed and what would it look like. I personally would like to have it inside the armrest or glove box so it can't be seen.

[OzStriker]

+1

On a separate note, where in the car is the switch usually placed and what would it look like. I personally would like to have it inside the armrest or glove box so it can't be seen.

How about on your key ring?

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/up_file/speacial_12/remote_01_main-1199914652.jpg

[OC 335i]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

You can't advertise here like that. You aren't a vendor. :)

[Mattscott]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

:sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3:
:sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3:
:sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3:
:sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3:
:sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3: :sm3:

[///Mantis]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

awkward??? is that a word even? if it is then it definitely cannot be used in this context.

bro, that was fraudulent what you guys did. it's not a vendor mess-up. if i were you i would go to a completely different market and try to sell. there's no way in heck people will buy from you again.

thanks for our attention? ORLY??!!!!

[nico335]

eisenhaus eat my butt

[E90SLAM]

time to stop by hardware store and buy some stainless pipes...weld them and sell them as a "quality exhaust system".....it may even sound better than watever "Meisterschaft".....:rolleyes:

[Mattscott]

guys, we are very sorry that you feel a little awkward to deal with us on Meisterschaft units and Kreissieg units at this time. We are truly willing to work hard to regain the credit back and satisfy our customers in all ways and we are currently doing so.
So, we are asking your humble understanding regards to the previous incident and for sure we will update you folks, once this KR F1 product becomes available.
Thank you for your good feedbacks on Kreissieg units. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to give us a call at any time. thank you for your attention.

EisenHaus
Tel: 630.787.1600

EisenHoax

[OzStriker]

Kreis-sieg will sell direct to overseas customers, given whats happened here, you guys should pressure Kreis-sieg to sell direct in the USA as well.

[Mattscott]

time to stop by hardware store and buy some stainless pipes...weld them and sell them as a "quality exhaust system".....it may even sound better than watever "Meisterschaft".....:rolleyes:

Yeah but the metal has to be manufactured in Germany, so you can say Authentic, and when confronted you can say. It really came from germany!

[///Mantis]

there's plenty of legit vendors, plenty. EisenHoax is just not one of them. it amazes me how they're back in less than 2 months doing the same exact scam... WOW

[Mattscott]

there's plenty of legit vendors, plenty. EisenHoax is just not one of them. it amazes me how they're back in less than 2 months doing the same exact scam... WOW

Maybe they've partnered up with BavDom and are going to make a CF intake/ exhaust combo group buy!!

[E90SLAM]

Yeah but the metal has to be manufactured in Germany, so you can say Authentic, and when confronted you can say. It really came from germany!

who knows...i'm just gonna stamp a BIG Meisterschaft stamp!

[Mattscott]

who knows...i'm just gonna stamp a BIG Meisterschaft stamp!

That stamp could be worth it's weight in platinum covered diamonds!!!

[Epacy]

Take your beef up with Eisenhaus in another way. You guys are ruining this thread with your constant talk.
This thread is about the F1 system, ONLY.

[///Mantis]

calm down E. since those guys are trying to pull the same scam on M3 people i think it's very appropriate to let everyone know of what they have done man.

those vendor-wannabes are trying to scam you and me and get our money again using the F1 system's name, and they're doing it ON this thread

[BMW-M-Mexico]

calm down E. since those guys are trying to pull the same scam on M3 people i think it's very appropriate to let everyone know of what they have done man.

those vendor-wannabes are trying to scam you and me and get our money again using the F1 system's name, and they're doing it ON this thread

Agreed!! It's nice to learn about the good or bad reputation of certain distributors from chats like this!!! Thanks guys!!! :cool!:

[gadget]

no one should buy from eisenfraud ever again

Agreed, I think the point has been made.

Lets move forward and focus our efforts on finding a viable alternative for buying this product.

[gadget]

Take your beef up with Eisenhaus in another way. You guys are ruining this thread with your constant talk.
This thread is about the F1 system, ONLY.


+1- I think we should all stop beating the dead horse.

[OC kid]

Just to bring things back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the Kreis-seig brand so I snooped around their webpage briefly and found this description of their system.



So now my question is, Is driving around with the exhaust set to Open Mode (F1 sound) even legal? On most public streets in the U.S., yes.

I'm assuming it isn't so my follow-up question is, How legal is it to install an exhaust system that can become illegal at the flick of a switch from inside the cabin? Basically dumps from the sound of their description when its in open mode. Part of the answer to this question really depends on the level of risk you're willing to take.

A a flow-chart diagram of their system can be found here. http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/?_page=10&gubun=f1

Thanks for that ^

The website's portrayal of the exhausts for the E60 and the E46 appear to be CAT back and therefore would potentially be street-legal, assuming no violations of local laws restricting db levels...

I'm interested in how the weight of the Valvetronic compares to stock...

I'd also still like to see a pic of the actual piping especially how it looks with the bends/transition at the "CAT bypass" area...

[OzStriker]

I too am interested in how much weight this adds to the stock exhaust.

Anybody have any M5/M6 stock vs F1 exhaust system weights?

[GewoW]

I too am interested in how much weight this adds to the stock exhaust.

Anybody have any M5/M6 stock vs F1 exhaust system weights?

This would not add any weight. It would reduce it quite a bit.

[UltimateBMW]

Well, the system is saying that it has 2 different channels for exhaust air to flow through. Adding an addition channel that offer's as much airflow bandwidth as the stock system would increase weight, simply because it is extra material that wasn't originally there.

[Epacy]

Well, the system is saying that it has 2 different channels for exhaust air to flow through. Adding an addition channel that offer's as much airflow bandwidth as the stock system would increase weight, simply because it is extra material that wasn't originally there.

You're interpreting it incorrectly.

[OzStriker]

You're interpreting it incorrectly.

Epacy would you mind elaborating on that?

The way I see it, this exhaust will probably be a cat back stainless system, with a bit of a maze of pipes at the back, a couple of valves and the associated vacuum tubing and components.

Not that I am all that fussed with 10kg here or there, but I would expect it to be a litle heavier. Do you think otherwise?

[M-Maika]

I would expect it to be a litle heavier.

Agreed.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

OK guys, I thought you might be interested in knowing the following. I spoke with a couple of guys that are friends of mine that work for a very reputable Mercedes-Benz tuner. They are working on a special car project for me for the last 18 months and have worked with them on other projects as well. In any event, on a side note, I asked their opinion about Kreissieg Exhaust and the first thing they said is that they know nothing about them. I then directed them to their web site and they saw some of the exhaust diagrams for the M6 and I believe old M3. They simply and literally laughed and told me that it is one of the WORST designs they have seen, it has several 90 degree turns before and after the exhaust, etc…, etc… that may even lead to “LESS POWER” rather than real efficiency gains. They also said that although it may sound great, it dosn´t at all look like something designed for performance at all. They said I should probably stick with Remus since they have heard about these guys and they do go through some serious R&D before they put something that simply sounds great out in the market. Anyway, just though you might be interested.

[K3N R3D]

OK guys, I thought you might be interested in knowing the following. I spoke with a couple of guys that are friends of mine that work for a very reputable Mercedes-Benz tuner. They are working on a special car project for me for the last 18 months and have worked with them on other projects as well. In any event, on a side note, I asked their opinion about Kreissieg Exhaust and the first thing they said is that they know nothing about them. I then directed them to their web site and they saw some of the exhaust diagrams for the M6 and I believe old M3. They simply and literally laughed and told me that it is one of the WORST designs they have seen, it has several 90 degree turns before and after the exhaust, etc…, etc… that may even lead to “LESS POWER” rather than real efficiency gains. They also said that although it may sound great, it dosn´t at all look like something designed for performance at all. They said I should probably stick with Remus since they have heard about these guys and they do go through some serious R&D before they put something that simply sounds great out in the market. Anyway, just though you might be interested.

To me it will depend on how much power is lost. Cause this particular exhaust sounds really bad ass. If the power loss is minimal, or just no gains at all I'd still consider it.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

To me it will depend on how much power is lost. Cause this particular exhaust sounds really bad ass. If the power loss is minimal, or just no gains at all I'd still consider it.

Good point!!! Have no idea what the power loss (if any) there may be. But hey, if sound is all that you are looking for, then its probably a very safe bet. I look primarily, I should say always, for at least as good performance/quality as OE, weight savings and looks. So, as long as you are aware then more power to you.

[K3N R3D]

Good point!!! Have no idea what the power loss (if any) there may be. But hey, if sound is all that you are looking for, then its probably a very safe bet. I look primarily, I should say always, for at least as good performance/quality as OE, weight savings and looks. So, as long as you are aware then more power to you.

Well power and weight savings are important to me, don't get me wrong. It's just it sounds so amazing you know? :D

Might be able to do other mods to make up for the loss (if any) from this exhaust.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Well power and weight savings are important to me, don't get me wrong. It's just it sounds so amazing you know? :D

Might be able to do other mods to make up for the loss (if any) from this exhaust.

Let me know when and if you get the system? Would love to listen to your opinion!!!! Also how much it ends up costing you!

[SpacecakeM]

So it looks like this exhaust is going to run about $5100. I went on the eisenhaus site and its listed for sale now. Wasnt able to see any pics or videos. I also checked out the GT videos and Im not sure if they are new or not but Take off 1 sounds pretty good. I have already ordered the titanium version of this exhaust so im curious to see what its going to sound like in person.

[lucid]

Thanks for the heads up. No pics indeed. I see a price of $5200. Also, if you want their "Super Catalytic Converters", that's another $2800. I bet it will sound great, but $8k for an exhaust mod is over the top I think...

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.php?selMake=2&selModel=6140&selSub=506&selPerf=6&selTip=1749%230.646115%23none.gif&Submit.x=44&Submit.y=21

[OzStriker]

BIG BUMP!!!

Photos up!

This thing is going to be rather loud when bypassing those mufflers!

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.php?selMake=2&selModel=6140&selSub=506&selPerf=6&selTip=1749%230.646115%23none.gif&Submit.x=44&Submit.y=21

[Remus]

Is that the Kreissieg? I fail to see where it will actually bypass the mufflers?

[M-Maika]

Is that the Kreissieg? I fail to see where it will actually bypass the mufflers?

I was just about to ask the same thing.

[M3NTAL]

Is that the Kreissieg? I fail to see where it will actually bypass the mufflers?

Above it, it says "Meistercrap Exhausts"

I think they just posted pictures of their exhaust on this page. Typical.:thumbdown

[OzStriker]

This is indeed the genuine Kreis-sieg exhaust, the photos have been taken at the Kreis-sieg Japan workshop.

[lucid]

OK guys, I thought you might be interested in knowing the following. I spoke with a couple of guys that are friends of mine that work for a very reputable Mercedes-Benz tuner. They are working on a special car project for me for the last 18 months and have worked with them on other projects as well. In any event, on a side note, I asked their opinion about Kreissieg Exhaust and the first thing they said is that they know nothing about them. I then directed them to their web site and they saw some of the exhaust diagrams for the M6 and I believe old M3. They simply and literally laughed and told me that it is one of the WORST designs they have seen, it has several 90 degree turns before and after the exhaust, etc…, etc… that may even lead to “LESS POWER” rather than real efficiency gains. They also said that although it may sound great, it dosn´t at all look like something designed for performance at all. They said I should probably stick with Remus since they have heard about these guys and they do go through some serious R&D before they put something that simply sounds great out in the market. Anyway, just though you might be interested.

Sorry, but your guys clearly are not thinking very deeply/clearly about the spatial restrictions, and have not seen what the stock exhaust system looks like, so it sounds like they are somewhat talking nonsense here. The sharp bends are in there so that the pipes can run in between the suspension components and the differential. Without that, you'd have the exhaust hanging down, impeding flow/causing drag and all sorts of other problems. The M engineers would have done something about this if there was a reasonable alternative. I don't see how aftermarket systems can get around the issue.

147729
147730

[malter2.0]

to me nothing beats this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vRYYe0kLCto

..well, except maybe ..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=foDcLUhUKqI

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Naa!! Don't like the M5 sound all that much! It sounds a bit too much muscle car! Love the Lambo though!

[cowmoo32]

to me nothing beats this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRYYe0kLCto



Hands down the best sounding, street legal, BMW I've heard. I've been drooling over that thing for a long long time now. Maybe here in about 5 years I'll be able to throw the kind of money into my car that it takes to get that kind of sound.

[PencilGeek]

Thanks for the heads up. No pics indeed. I see a price of $5200. Also, if you want their "Super Catalytic Converters", that's another $2800. I bet it will sound great, but $8k for an exhaust mod is over the top I think...

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.php?selMake=2&selModel=6140&selSub=506&selPerf=6&selTip=1749%230.646115%23none.gif&Submit.x=44&Submit.y=21

As of today, the price is $8000.

/PG

[KINGLEH]

for the car to sound like that.. u should atleast have 600hp.... to back it up...

imo...


im still waiting for a nice "hum" from an exhaust that makes it seem like its revving 10k.... but not loud....

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I agree that if a car sounds the part, it must also walk-the-walk. No use it sounding like an F1 and then an C63 AMG (or something similar) blows you away.

[cowmoo32]

Maybe it's just me, but I could care less if someone can beat me in a straight line. I know what I can do at the track, and that's all I care about.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Maybe it's just me, but I could care less if someone can beat me in a straight line. I know what I can do at the track, and that's all I care about.

Hahha!! I agree, that's not what I meant to say. I just said if it sounds poweful it should go powerful as well, not that I would race every car on the street to show them how fast I am. It is simply that I know I don't have a very powerful car!! (not like a Porsche TT etc...).

[lucid]

As of today, the price is $8000.

/PG

They used to have seperate pricing for the different parts of the system. It seems like you can only get the whole thing now, and hence the $8k figure?

At that price, the thing better not only sound good, but also weigh less and result in more hp than stock I'd say. I can't possibly justify the price just for the sound. I wish there was some data on weight reduction and power gains.

[Epacy]

$8k is excessive. Were the M5/6 exhausts just the muffler?

[M3NTAL]

Is that the Kreissieg? I fail to see where it will actually bypass the mufflers?

WHERE DOES THIS BYPASS THE MUFFLERS.

This has yet to be shown. I'm not seeing ANY valves. So I would be paying $8k for a "valvetronic" exhaust that has no valves. Doesn't make sense to me.:confused2

[M-Maika]

WHERE DOES THIS BYPASS THE MUFFLERS.

This has yet to be shown. I'm not seeing ANY valves. So I would be paying $8k for a "valvetronic" exhaust that has no valves. Doesn't make sense to me.:confused2

Absolutelly right.

This exhaust seems big Bullsh**, just IMO.
I would buy a true Kreisig valvetronic, but this is not a true one.

Best Regards, Maika

[cowmoo32]

WHERE DOES THIS BYPASS THE MUFFLERS.

This has yet to be shown. I'm not seeing ANY valves. So I would be paying $8k for a "valvetronic" exhaust that has no valves. Doesn't make sense to me.:confused2

WAIT!!! You're saying Eisenhaus would try to sell a FAKE?!! NO WAY!! You can only polish a turd so much...

[BMW-M-Mexico]

WAIT!!! You're saying Eisenhaus would try to sell a FAKE?!! NO WAY!! You can only polish a turd so much...

Don’t think that is what they are saying. I think the issue is that there is no information at all on weight savings and performance gains and in order to justify such a huge $$$$ over other systems, there has to be more to it than just sound (albeit great sound that it is). On the other hand, the valves and associated apparatus… may actually make their system more complicated, heavier and perhaps more cumbersome to exhaust gas flows than stock. I personally do question these thing mainly because of the lack of information. That’s all. It may very well be that this is the best exhaust out there (and it should be for that price).

[ChinoOrtega]

Besides the most expensive one, you guys think the other ones are worth a shot, are they the real deal? Eisseman Germany doesn't have all the different exhausts so I'm just wondering??????
http://www.eisenmann-sportauspuff.ov3.de/produkt_detail.htm?id=675&ovs_hersteller=BMW&ovs_baureihe=E92&ovs_modell=M3&ovs_typ=M3%20%28309%20kW%29%20Coupe

[cowmoo32]

Don’t think that is what they are saying. I think the issue is that there is no information at all on weight savings and performance gains and in order to justify such a huge $$$$ over other systems, there has to be more to it than just sound (albeit great sound that it is). On the other hand, the valves and associated apparatus… may actually make their system more complicated, heavier and perhaps more cumbersome to exhaust gas flows than stock. I personally do question these thing mainly because of the lack of information. That’s all. It may very well be that this is the best exhaust out there (and it should be for that price).


I was talking about the fact that there are no valves to speak of. A "valvetronic" exhaust should have a valve/pipe that bypasses a muffler and/or resonator to make it louder. This exhaust doesn't.

[M3NTAL]

I was talking about the fact that there are no valves to speak of. A "valvetronic" exhaust should have a valve/pipe that bypasses a muffler and/or resonator to make it louder. This exhaust doesn't.

Exactly. This is what I was talking about too.

In the picture thread dedicated to this they say there is a valve system similar to that on the m6. But it's not clear on how it works.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I was talking about the fact that there are no valves to speak of. A "valvetronic" exhaust should have a valve/pipe that bypasses a muffler and/or resonator to make it louder. This exhaust doesn't.

Got it! Clear enough.

[PencilGeek]

Don’t think that is what they are saying. I think the issue is that there is no information at all on weight savings and performance gains and in order to justify such a huge $$$$ over other systems, there has to be more to it than just sound (albeit great sound that it is). On the other hand, the valves and associated apparatus… may actually make their system more complicated, heavier and perhaps more cumbersome to exhaust gas flows than stock. I personally do question these thing mainly because of the lack of information. That’s all. It may very well be that this is the best exhaust out there (and it should be for that price).

You think $8K is excessive?

Try this one for $11k.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127400

[M-Maika]

You think $8K is excessive?

Try this one for $11k.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127400

That is my second option as a complete muffler.
I will go either way, or i will buy a Kreisig or the amuse Ti.

Until the time comes i will decide.

Best Regards, Maika

[BMW-M-Mexico]

You know, I’m going to put some pipes together with a valve or something and name it Konigsberg an price it at $10,000. I’m in the wrong business! Hahaha!

No, seriously now, that bulletproof system looks very well made and seems like it has titanium in it. Design also seems like a higher free flowing system than stock. But??? Never herd of them and don´t know anything about them, so still $$$$$!

[lucid]

I like the GruppeM titanium catback system so far for ~$4900. I don't know that they offer an option for replacing the entire system. We will see more titanium system on the market this summer I think.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I like the GruppeM titanium catback system so far for ~$4900. I don't know that they offer an option for replacing the entire system. We will see more titanium system on the market this summer I think.

Yep I do like the GruppeM exhaust, I in fact ordered and should recieve this week their very nice intake system. I don't think GruppeM has a complete exhaust system. At least not yet!

[edlms]

just did the GruppeM CAI and cat back exhaust. It's wonderful...
will be travelling tomorrow and won't be able to post anytime soon, but will do so asap.

FYI did the dyno - 370+ on the crank, 320+ at the wheels.

will start a thread once i'm back next week.

cheers

[Epacy]

just did the GruppeM CAI and cat back exhaust. It's wonderful...
will be travelling tomorrow and won't be able to post anytime soon, but will do so asap.

FYI did the dyno - 370+ on the crank, 320+ at the wheels.

will start a thread once i'm back next week.

cheers

Nice!! Can't wait to hear those. Any pics real quickly?

[BMW-M-Mexico]

just did the GruppeM CAI and cat back exhaust. It's wonderful...
will be travelling tomorrow and won't be able to post anytime soon, but will do so asap.

FYI did the dyno - 370+ on the crank, 320+ at the wheels.

will start a thread once i'm back next week.

cheers

Nice indeed! Do please post. Was the dyno before or after the exhaust was installed?

[K3N R3D]

just did the GruppeM CAI and cat back exhaust. It's wonderful...
will be travelling tomorrow and won't be able to post anytime soon, but will do so asap.

FYI did the dyno - 370+ on the crank, 320+ at the wheels.

will start a thread once i'm back next week.

cheers

I don't understand how it can be 370 crank. Plus don't you need to pull the engine out to measure crank?

What am I missing here?

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I don't understand how it can be 370 crank. Plus don't you need to pull the engine out to measure crank?

What am I missing here?

Yea that does sound a bit low, but calculations can be made to estimate crank horse power w/o removing the engine. The low hp could be due to several changes in test conditions such as altitude (about 1% less power for every 100 meters in an NA engine), humidity, temperature and other items. What really matters is how much hp on the same dyno before mods and after!!

[cowmoo32]

BMW-M-Mexico, when are you getting your Gruppe-M intake? I can't wait to see a video; the sound is going to be ridiculous.

edit: Didn't see your post earlier. Are you having it installed this week when it gets here?

[BMW-M-Mexico]

BMW-M-Mexico, when are you getting your Gruppe-M intake? I can't wait to see a video; the sound is going to be ridiculous.

edit: Didn't see your post earlier. Are you having it installed this week when it gets here?

Yes, I got it in San Diego last week, it should be here tomorrow or Friday at the latest and installed ASAP.

[lucid]

Yep I do like the GruppeM exhaust, I in fact ordered and should recieve this week there very nice intake system. I don't think GruppeM has a complete exhaust system. At least not yet!

Great! Let us know what you think. An external drive-by video with sound would be very much appreciated. :)

Since we are making all sorts of requests here, can you also dyno your car before and after? :D

[lucid]

just did the GruppeM CAI and cat back exhaust. It's wonderful...
will be travelling tomorrow and won't be able to post anytime soon, but will do so asap.

FYI did the dyno - 370+ on the crank, 320+ at the wheels.

will start a thread once i'm back next week.

cheers

Looking forward to your thread. Those numbers seem low? :confused:

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Great! Let us know what you think. An external drive-by video with sound would be very much appreciated. :)

Since we are making all sorts of requests here, can you also dyno your car before and after? :D

Sure thing, I'll ask the shop to take pictures of the process etc... and then record the sound.

[lucid]

Sure thing, I'll ask the shop to take pictures of the process etc... and then record the sound.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[edlms]

need to be up in a few hours to catch my flight. will try to get some first pics up at the hotel tomorrow night...

apparently losing 20% (off manufacturers claims) at the crank is pretty normal for NA cars. don't know the science or the math. will also post the pics of the print outs...

stay tuned i guess... gotta catch some zzzz now.

cheers
cheers

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Take a look at this thread, http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136529, loss is more like 10%. According to them. I think that too low!

[lucid]

need to be up in a few hours to catch my flight. will try to get some first pics up at the hotel tomorrow night...

apparently losing 20% (off manufacturers claims) at the crank is pretty normal for NA cars. don't know the science or the math. will also post the pics of the print outs...

stay tuned i guess... gotta catch some zzzz now.

cheers
cheers

Those numbers are more like 23% loss, which is too high for this car I think. But it depends on how the test was performed--if it was an acceleration test or not.

[M3NTAL]

Wow I thought my Cooper S was high with a 14% loss. Never dynoed my other cars, I haven't made any performance modifications to them so there's no real reason to.

[Griz]

Kreis-sieg North America and GTHaus (Eisenhaus) share the same offices. I don't know if Kreis-sieg and Eisenhaus are one in the same. Perhaps Eisenhaus is just a distributor for Kreis-sieg. Can anyone clarify?

[Reincarnated]

Resurrected!

Griz you are local, wherebouts?

[Griz]

Resurrected!

Griz you are local, wherebouts?

Definitely back from the dead, I just didn't see the need for starting a new thread.

I live downtown. Yourself?

[Reincarnated]

Definitely back from the dead, I just didn't see the need for starting a new thread.

I live downtown. Yourself?

Lebanon, IL

[e46e92love]

Kreis-sieg North America and GTHaus (Eisenhaus) share the same offices. I don't know if Kreis-sieg and Eisenhaus are one in the same. Perhaps Eisenhaus is just a distributor for Kreis-sieg. Can anyone clarify?

I want a kreis-sieg system but I will only order from the manufacturer, so if Eisenhaus is the only distributor, I won't buy one and their sales numbers will suffer.

[RobindaE46]

I want a kreis-sieg system but I will only order from the manufacturer, so if Eisenhaus is the only distributor, I won't buy one and their sales numbers will suffer.

+1 to that eisenhaus kreissieg usa is the same peeps. Don't buy from them buy direct.

[Griz]

+1 to that eisenhaus kreissieg usa is the same peeps. Don't buy from them buy direct.

That's the general opinion in this thread.

What I was wondering, though, is whether Kreis-sieg (main) only shares ties to Eisenhaus by way of Kreis-sieg North America (distributor). I'll try to contact Krei-sieg about this if nobody here is sure about a connection.

Lebanon, IL

So, I take it wasn't too much of drive to take those exhaust videos on the farm roads...

I was actually out in Mascoutah (possibly a bit further out) earlier in the year, because somehow I got talked into going to a tractor pull. The trucks were loud, the beer was cheep, but I can't come up with any better way to describe the event other than 'interesting'.

[e46e92love]

That's the general opinion in this thread.

What I was wondering, though, is whether Kreis-sieg (main) only shares ties to Eisenhaus by way of Kreis-sieg North America (distributor). I'll try to contact Krei-sieg about this if nobody here is sure about a connection.


That would be mighty awesome of you. I would but I won't see my car till next spring, so I am just collecting as much info as possible so when it gets here I can make the move.

Cheers,
e46e92

[Griz]

That would be mighty awesome of you. I would but I won't see my car till next spring, so I am just collecting as much info as possible so when it gets here I can make the move.

Cheers,
e46e92

I just received a response that Kreis-sieg will sell directly.

[e46e92love]

I just received a response that Kreis-sieg will sell directly.

Nice:thumbsup: Thanks for the heads up:happyanim:

[M-Maika]

I just received a response that Kreis-sieg will sell directly.

Nice.
I´m going to send them an email.

Best regards,
Maika

[bmwinblood]

I just received a response that Kreis-sieg will sell directly.

Hey Griz, Thats awesome, who would I get in touch with to order one.

[Griz]

I went to Kreis-sieg's site (http://www.kreissieg.com/) and clicked the 'Contact' tab. There is an e-mail option on the page that follows.

They responded to my e-mail on the same day.

[e46e92love]

I went to Kreis-sieg's site (http://www.kreissieg.com/) and clicked the 'Contact' tab. There is an e-mail option on the page that follows.

They responded to my e-mail on the same day.

That is a good sign as to how easy they will be to deal with.:thumbsup:

[Reincarnated]

So, I take it wasn't too much of drive to take those exhaust videos on the farm roads...

I was actually out in Mascoutah (possibly a bit further out) earlier in the year, because somehow I got talked into going to a tractor pull. The trucks were loud, the beer was cheep, but I can't come up with any better way to describe the event other than 'interesting'.

No, it wasn't far.
Yeah, Mascoutah isn't far at all. Haven't been to a tractor pull in years. Funny to hear you describe it. :D

[quackman]

So any more news on this exhaust? Has anyone bought it? The only thing I know about the Kreissieg exhaust is that it sounds awesome from the 12 videos that are on youtube and I'm thinking of getting it.

Looking at their US site, it seems that having control over the valve to make it louder is a $500+ option? If one forgoes that, then the valve is controlled how? at will of the exhaust at certain rpm?

edit: I was doing some more research on this exhaust and apparently somehow it comes with a swithc for the interior to open and close the valve. The $500 option is for a remote control.

[e46e92love]

So any more news on this exhaust? Has anyone bought it? The only thing I know about the Kreissieg exhaust is that it sounds awesome from the 12 videos that are on youtube and I'm thinking of getting it.

Looking at their US site, it seems that having control over the valve to make it louder is a $500+ option? If one forgoes that, then the valve is controlled how? at will of the exhaust at certain rpm?

edit: I was doing some more research on this exhaust and apparently somehow it comes with a swithc for the interior to open and close the valve. The $500 option is for a remote control.

This is the route I am leaning towards. I am either going to go Remus (they are on Long Island, which is a few hours drive from me so I can see their stuff up close and have them install it) to save a few bucks or call all the way and get this Kreis-sieg Valvetronic F1 setup.

[quackman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ybQGi01wd8
Here is a vid of an M5 with a Kreissieg exhaust, which costs 8k, on, showing off both the quiet and loud modes.

[mvagusta]

what other exhaust sounds close or like this one (Kreissieg)????? To much money for this exhaust...

[e46e92love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ybQGi01wd8
Here is a vid of an M5 with a Kreissieg exhaust, which costs 8k, on, showing off both the quiet and loud modes.

Thank you very much..........have always wanted to hear the quiet mode, and what "on" mode sounded like from inside the car.

Cheers,
e46e92

[jlaw]

Can anyone tell me how Kreissieg's "Valvetronic" system is any different / more effective than a pair of $149/ea QTP electronic cutouts installed somewhere after the primary cats?

[Irb Digital]

Can anyone tell me how Kreissieg's "Valvetronic" system is any different / more effective than a pair of $149/ea QTP electronic cutouts installed somewhere after the primary cats?


No.........the feeling is that this is only acceptable for cheaper forms of performance, like turbo hondas and dragged out muscle cars. :sigh:

[CSMRX7]

Can anyone tell me how Kreissieg's "Valvetronic" system is any different / more effective than a pair of $149/ea QTP electronic cutouts installed somewhere after the primary cats?


I have been wondering the same thing? Looks like this could be achieved pretty easily with electronic cutouts and some tubing.