M3 vs S5 - S5 wins?

[hks786]

I dont see these as rivals but Leftlanenews posted a comparison:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/review-audi-s5.html

Bottom line

Having driven the M3 only a few weeks ago, we couldn’t help drawing some comparisons. On the whole, these cars both get their owners to the same fun-driving goals, but they accomplish that in very different ways.

The M3 is slightly more attractive on the exterior, but the interior colors and style of the S5 are definitely more pleasing. It makes you feel good just to sit in this car, even though the BMW engineers would argue that all those colors and textures will take your mind off your driving.

The M3 can get you from zero to sixty a few tenths of a tick faster than the S5, but the M3 does it at higher rpm, so you always seem to be working harder for the same reward. On corners, especially on the track, the M3’s technology will get an average driver around the corner as fast as a better driver can do it in an S5, but when with a little practice, you can make the Audi perform just as well, the achievement feels more satisfying.

To put the comparison into perspective, if we were offered a choice between the two cars, we’d have to flip a coin to make our choice, and wouldn’t be unhappy with heads or tails. On the other hand, in the real world of real buyers, where we’re hearing reports of dealers adding as much as $30,000 of “market adjustment fees” to the price of the M3, the choice may be easier.

[swamp2]

Quite a complement to the S5. Especially in the company of the M3. Now just to be clear I have not driven either car. All I can do is summarize some knowns from the press.

One thing about M3's that is and has been true about every generation of the car is FUN. Even in the elite company of the R8, GT-R and 997TT the M3 came out on top as the most fun in the recent comparison. So that leads me to suspect the validity of this opinion. Sure the S5 is a great ride but the text implies to me that S5 is more fun ("more satisfying"). Given its heft, weight balance issues and AWD I simple find this next to impossible to believe that it is either more fun or more satisfying.

As we all know it certainly is not a competitor with regards to true ultimate performance on a track. I guess I can live with only a few ticks faster 0-60...

Footie: Please wax poetic about how much better the S5 is on the cold, wet, narrow roads of the UK...

[footie]

Swamp,

Why am I not surprised to find my name roll off your keyboard when the S5 is mentioned.

Well, unlike you I have had to pleasure to own one for a few months now and driven the other on a few occasions and while I could wax poetic words on the benefits of the S5's drivability on my cold, wet and narrow UK roads I don't think even you would doubt that in such conditions the Audi will hold the upper hand.

But I don't think that this report was conducted in such weather conditions, so I too am finding it strange to see how they found the S5 the more rewarding (slight change of words but not meaning) when driven well. I wouldn't deny that awd, especially one like that of the S5's setup could provide anything like as rewarding as a polished rwd chassis like the one in the M3. It's cornering ability maybe as good as the M3's but it's how the S5 achieves it's similar result are totally different, it's effortless in comparison and makes you wonder why all the fuss and excitement was made by the M3 driver for tackling the same corner or road at the same speed.

Sorry leftlanenews but as an Audi S5 owner I can't agree that on pure entertainment or is more rewarding to drive well than the M3, in fact it's quite the opposite.

As for the difference in 0-60 times, I would agree that in the real world with the M3's traction issues the S5 will only be a few tenths behind but as the speed increases the M3 will work out a comfortable lead which is the be expected.

One thing I totally agree with is that the S5 has by a country mile the better interior, but as such thing are very personal you or many other might not agree we me which is everyones right.

P.S.

Well swamp, did this reply surprise.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Swamp,

Why am I not surprised to find my name roll off your keyboard when the S5 is mentioned.

Well, unlike you I have had to pleasure to own one for a few months now and driven the other on a few occasions and while I could wax poetic words on the benefits of the S5's drivability on my cold, wet and narrow UK roads I don't think even you would doubt that in such conditions the Audi will hold the upper hand.

But I don't think that this report was conducted in such weather conditions, so I too am finding it strange to see how they found the S5 the more rewarding (slight change of words but not meaning) when driven well. I wouldn't deny that awd, especially one like that of the S5's setup could provide anything like as rewarding as a polished rwd chassis like the one in the M3. It's cornering ability maybe as good as the M3's but it's how the S5 achieves it's similar result are totally different, it's effortless in comparison and makes you wonder why all the fuss and excitement was made by the M3 driver for tackling the same corner or road at the same speed.

Sorry leftlanenews but as an Audi S5 owner I can't agree that on pure entertainment or is more rewarding to drive well than the M3, in fact it's quite the opposite.

As for the difference in 0-60 times, I would agree that in the real world with the M3's traction issues the S5 will only be a few tenths behind but as the speed increases the M3 will work out a comfortable lead which is the be expected.

One thing I totally agree with is that the S5 has by a country mile the better interior, but as such thing are very personal you or many other might not agree we me which is everyones right.

P.S.

Well swamp, did this reply surprise.

Nice review!!!! Thanks!

[dillon733]

bs the m3 will kill stock vs stock

[///Mantis]

i drove S5 when i had my 335. S5 felt like a camry. it was very wobbly. but interior is pure sex.

i dont see anyway S5 > M3 or the 335 unless u consider the 30,000 markup

[gbb357]

I have'nt driven either one, but my vote will have to go to the M3 for overall comparison. But if the comparison is based on looks alone, i'll have to go with the S5.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I have'nt driven either one, but my vote will have to go to the M3 for overall comparison. But if the comparison is based on looks alone, i'll have to go with the S5.

Like both cars, but I think the looks of the M3 Coupe is a bit nicer!!

:word:

[swamp2]

Swamp,

Why am I not surprised to find my name roll off your keyboard when the S5 is mentioned.

...

Well swamp, did this reply surprise.

Nice post footie. I guess I was a bit surprised, but also glad to see you dissenting with their opinion.

[drvai]

One test doesn't really tell you anything.

More than one mag/TV show have tested the S5 Vs the 335 and the BMW does get faster around the tracks.

Also remember that in Top Gear, the M3 "destroyed" the RS4.

The S5 is a very nice car, but is no competition to the M3. Actually, I think it's kind of unfair to compare them.

What I do think will be much faster than the M3 is the upcoming RS4 (at least 2 more years). Is supposed to have a V10 engine and I'm guessing that will have more than 500HP, but cost a lot more than the M3. If the base MRSP reaches the 70K, I won't be surprised.

[footie]

Nice post footie. I guess I was a bit surprised, but also glad to see you dissenting with their opinion.

I noticed you didn't comment of this

while I could wax poetic words on the benefits of the S5's driveability on my cold, wet and narrow UK roads I don't think even you would doubt that in such conditions the Audi will hold the upper hand


I take then that you must agree with me. :D

[par4bmw]

One test doesn't really tell you anything.

More than one mag/TV show have tested the S5 Vs the 335 and the BMW does get faster around the tracks.

Also remember that in Top Gear, the M3 "destroyed" the RS4.

The S5 is a very nice car, but is no competition to the M3. Actually, I think it's kind of unfair to compare them.

What I do think will be much faster than the M3 is the upcoming RS4 (at least 2 more years). Is supposed to have a V10 engine and I'm guessing that will have more than 500HP, but cost a lot more than the M3. If the base MRSP reaches the 70K, I won't be surprised.

It depends on what no competition to the M3 means. On a track or for handling abilities in normal weather conditions, M3 wins hands down. For competition to be the car someone picks as "their best", the Audi can compete. It is attractive (especially on the inside), drives well, carries Audi's more subdued image and is cheaper. So it is competition to the M3 for the buying decision to many.

[drvai]

It depends on what no competition to the M3 means. On a track or for handling abilities in normal weather conditions, M3 wins hands down. For competition to be the car someone picks as "their best", the Audi can compete. It is attractive (especially on the inside), drives well, carries Audi's more subdued image and is cheaper. So it is competition to the M3 for the buying decision to many.

Well, I'm assuming that if someone is picking a M or S series, then performance is a pretty important factor. The other variable here is price. So ir would be performance for price.

The S5 is closer to the 335 and has always been compared with it.

Any car would be a competition if you just think about each person's best. Actually most part of the population would choose a camry for 25k than a M3 for 70k (even of the have the money).

[par4bmw]

Well, I'm assuming that if someone is picking a M or S series, then performance is a pretty important factor. The other variable here is price. So ir would be performance for price.

The S5 is closer to the 335 and has always been compared with it.

I agree that performance is an important factor. But, using that logic you should not buy an M3 or S5 and get a GT-R. For roughly the same price as the M3 it blows it away in performance.

I use more factors in my choice for a car and do not even consider buying the GT-R. M3 is top of my list, but I do eye the S5.

[drvai]

I agree that performance is an important factor. But, using that logic you should not buy an M3 or S5 and get a GT-R. For roughly the same price as the M3 it blows it away in performance.

I use more factors in my choice for a car and do not even consider buying the GT-R. M3 is top of my list, but I do eye the S5.

Ok, I'm sorry.

The category would be:

"European (or trying to imitate germans/europeans), high performance luxury car for about 60-70k"

That would be the RS4, AMG C63, IS-R...

The GT-R is far away from that (performance... period), and of course that the S5 is closer to the M3, but it's not fair to make them compete. The natural rival is the 335.

(and I wouln't buy the GT-R either :) )



The GT-R would have no place over ther

[par4bmw]

Ok, I'm sorry.

The category would be:

"European (or trying to imitate germans/europeans), high performance luxury car for about 60-70k"

That would be the RS4, AMG C63, IS-R...

The GT-R is far away from that (performance... period), and of course that the S5 is closer to the M3, but it's not fair to make them compete. The natural rival is the 335.

(and I wouln't buy the GT-R either :) )



The GT-R would have no place over ther


I hear you. Also, agree the M3 rules the top of that list. There is a lot more competition now.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I agree that performance is an important factor. But, using that logic you should not buy an M3 or S5 and get a GT-R. For roughly the same price as the M3 it blows it away in performance.

I use more factors in my choice for a car and do not even consider buying the GT-R. M3 is top of my list, but I do eye the S5.


Well said and I second that!!! :thumbsup:

[rai]

R&T test times

0-100
S5 12.1 sec
M3 9.5 sec

that's the end of it. The S5 ~= to the 335i (stock)

[BMW-M-Mexico]

R&T test times

0-100
S5 12.1 sec
M3 9.5 sec

that's the end of it. The S5 ~= to the 335i (stock)

Hahahahah!! Perfect!!! It does feel that way but good to have some stats!!!

[lucid]

The $30k mark-up is BS. Almost everybody on the forum is paying MSRP or less.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Yea, I think that is a bunch of BS!!! Don't really see that unless there was a huge shortage of M3 or a very limited number!

[rai]

we're paying the $10K mark-up (aka the option list).

I may look at a S5 just to be sure but likely I'd prefer the M3.

[footie]

R&T test times

0-100
S5 12.1 sec
M3 9.5 sec

that's the end of it. The S5 ~= to the 335i (stock)

Let me fix this one sided balance of figures. The S5 has on more than one occasion posted 11.7s in the European magazines, though in EVO it's time was 12.1s, likewise the M3 has posted some incredible times but on average it's more like 10.5s (in Europe at least). So while the M3 still has a comfortable lead in the 0-100mph stakes and above this isn't the huge gap that you where reporting. Also if there is the slightest smell of rain then things are even stevens (at least on a standing start).

The M3 and S5 aren't rivals in the true sense but if you are looking for a coupe with a v8 engine and from a German brand then your options are limited to these and handful of Mercs. Plus there is a lot to like about the S5, it's interior, it's looks, it's low end noise and power, plus that £10K sitting in your back pocket. And remember that at 7/10 their respective differences are non existent which is as far as you can push both of these cars on the open road.

Like I said, there is a lot of like about the S5.

[swamp2]

Let me fix this one sided balance of figures
...

+1. Specmanship always picks the best number for the car one supports and the worst for the car you want to dis. Typical. Hence the "More performance..." thread/database. Populate that with all the S5 figures, it would be great for all.

[footie]

In fact after checking I sold the M3's time short, it's truer average would be closer to 10.2s and not the 10.5s I originally stated.

[RealSanaii]

Wait for the new B8 RS4 or the RS5. That'll compete with the M3. Hopefully, Audi doesn't mess up this time to price them ridiculously high.

M3 is a bargain compare to the RS4 or the S5 alike. S5 is too pricey for it's performance figures.

[footie]

Wait for the new B8 RS4 or the RS5. That'll compete with the M3. Hopefully, Audi doesn't mess up this time to price them ridiculously high.

M3 is a bargain compare to the RS4 or the S5 alike. S5 is too pricey for it's performance figures.

This comment is all relative to where you live, the RS4 and S5 may have been too dear in the US but here in both Europe and the UK both cars match their respective BMW rivals very closely.

[OzCarfreak]

i drove S5 when i had my 335. S5 felt like a camry. it was very wobbly. but interior is pure sex.

i dont see anyway S5 > M3 or the 335 unless u consider the 30,000 markup

dude stop thinking 0-100 times, other things matter to most people, even 1 sec faster , you would get owned by a good driver in an s5 lol

[footie]

The S5 is about to gain a 7speed DSG gearbox so it will once again out accelerate the 335i (stock vs stock) but this time the gap will be bigger.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/Footlead/DSG.jpg

[southlight]

The S5 is about to gain a 7speed DSG gearbox so it will once again out accelerate the 335i (stock vs stock) but this time the gap will be bigger.
Not sure if you've answered that before, but how's the S5's MT compared to the one found in the M3 (you drove already, I think)?


Best regards, south

[footie]

Not sure if you've answered that before, but how's the S5's MT compared to the one found in the M3 (you drove already, I think)?


Best regards, south


The M3 is better, the S5 gearbox can not be rushed in the same way, possibly because of the quattro drive which may mean that DSG will benefit here more so than in the M3.

[southlight]

The M3 is better, the S5 gearbox can not be rushed in the same way, possibly because of the quattro drive which may mean that DSG will benefit here more so than in the M3.
Thanks, footie. So you'd prefer the DSG in an S/RS Audi to an MT?


Best regards, south

[footie]

Thanks, footie. So you'd prefer the DSG in an S/RS Audi to an MT?


Best regards, south

Mate, I have spent the last 3months and countless posts stating that I don't prefer Dual Clutch systems and you for some unknown reason have either forgot this fact or are having a laugh.

In any answer................NO.:D

[southlight]

Mate, I have spent the last 3months and countless posts stating that I don't prefer Dual Clutch systems and you for some unknown reason have either forgot this fact or are having a laugh.

In any answer................NO.:D
I'm just wondering about the DSG promotion lately. :D
You're right, should have known that already, but I thought you might distinguish between BMW and Audi on that subject.


Best regards, south

[footie]

I'm just wondering about the DSG promotion lately. :D
You're right, should have known that already, but I thought you might distinguish between BMW and Audi on that subject.


Best regards, south

South mate, like many here I am waiting to see what DCT will be like. Who knows I might drive it and fall in love........................













NOT.:lol:

[southlight]

OK, you passed the MT club test. :D ;) /jk


Best regards, south

[Priaptor]

As a person who swore that he would never drive another "performance" car again, I have been driving an Acura RL for the last 3 years having sold my Lotus Elise. I have owned countless Porsches, a Vanquish, a 355 Spyder, a Z8 (which by the way was my favorite), Mustang Shelby, Viper to name a few.

I decided that NO MORE sports cars! However, recently becoming self-employed and finding that a lease made more sense, I decided to get an S5. Since I waited too long, the one that was "reserved" for me was sold. On a whim, I went next door and there was a new M3, with just about every option, in red, sitting on floor, having just arrived and being cleaned on the showroom. The dealer recognized me from a prior purchase years ago of an X5, got me a great lease deal based on sticker and I drove the thing home.

Since I haven't driven a performance car for three years, I can only say-WOW. This thing is great. I now have 300 miles and am enjoying it more every day. It looks like I will be using that dusty Valentine once again.

The car came with 19" wheels and the handling is superb. The car is less fun without the M mode engage and I find it kind of a pain to drive unless it is engaged. Why disengage it?? Engaged, it reminds me of the old Porsche turbo boost that some deplored but I loved. The car is amazingly comfortable, the seats the best I have ever sat in, the stereo is great, but believe it or not the 2005 RL was better, the clutch very sweet. I do not find the isolation of the steering some have described. Quite to the contrary I feel every gravel pit on the road and love the feel. Maybe this has to do with those that were tested having 18" wheels instead of the 19"-can't say. But no complaints here.

My only regret is that IF I had a choice, I would have opted for the carbon fiber roof with no sunroof-but beggars can't be choosy.

While I still have that new car hype in me, I do believe this will take over the Z8 as the best car I have ever owned. The biggest disappointment by the way was my Vanquish-got it the first year made. The thing overheated three times in one month, despite it being "fixed" and I sold it almost as quick as I got it-that cost me as AM released the new and better DB within months of the Vanquish.

In any case, the new M3 is more than I had hoped for. I am sure glad that the dealer sold "my" S5.

[sayemthree]

I drove an S5- nice car a little nicer than my 2001 M3. but I expect the 2008 M3 to be a LOT nicer!