help me decide M3 v GTR

[rai]

I know there are threads about the GTR v M3. But I am more asking for advice as it relates to me and my situation.

I am looking at the M3 with many options say it's $71K plus tax. I can trim off maybe $3K say a low price ~$68K plus tax. Mainly it's up for me do decide if I should get the M-DCT or the 6MT

I have shopped for the GTR and a few dealers wanted $95K (ish) but I have one that's willing to go +$5K over msrp so that's around $77K (ish).

I know there are people that won't pay over msrp but leave that aside just look at the results $71K M3 (with DCT) v $77K GTR

The GTR includes everything that is optional on the M3 such as navi, active shocks, premium sound, bluetooth, DCT etc..

So I look at the price difference just ~ $7K or $8K more for a GTR.

For which the GTR has more power/speed, AWD, more rare, maybe more street cred (?).

what am I looking for?

I like speed/power and I like to have a car that's somewhat looked at as status but not too much (I mean not like an Aston) although that's not to say I don't like Aston/Ferrari etc.. but I don't want the image of being rich-ie rich so a middle car around $75K +/- is what I am looking for.

I don't race on the street or on the track. I like quick and feeling of power but it's for my own enjoyment. In other words if I get a GTR I'm not going to looking for Z06s or Ford GTs to test it against. If I do go fast it's just for what I am feeling of accleleration and maybe a M3 feels quick (in isolation) I mean it's not like I'll feel bad knowing I don't have a car that can run door to door with a Z06.

I mean when I'm driving, if I want to dust off a car, I like some power just to go. But I don't mean I'm looking for the fastest car in the world. Specifically I have lived with a S2000 for almost 6 years. I would like some more pep than it has but I didn't upgrade to a Z06 for example b/c that aspect is not my main concern.

While I like the awd of the GTR, I think that' my biggest area of what I may like it's not like I am only looking for an awd car. I have other cars to drive in the snow so the awd would mainly be a tool to make the GTR more east to drive (more secure), but I don't think awd is magic like I know if you go past the limits with either car you can go off road.

I don't really push 9/10th any way. I mean even with my S2000, I don't drive as fast as the car is able. So it's just I like brisk back-roads and some quick accelerations but not racing.

Why you may ask don't I save so much and just get a 335i or such? Well I am a car nut. I always want the higher cars but have not got one yet. I am always too cheap. This time I want to go long and I don't plan to buy a lot of fancy cars in my life. I mean perhapse the M3 or GTR would be my best car ever. So I don't want to cheap out time after time.

So my question is the GTR sooo much better than the M3? Or is it a matter of preference? I mean if not actually racing will the M3 be as fun? Will the M3 be more luxurious or better built?

Do people think only one way or can you see being torn trying to decide if the price difference is less than $10K.

thanks.

[shiggy]

I know there are threads about the GTR v M3. But I am more asking for advice as it relates to me and my situation.

I am looking at the M3 with many options say it's $71K plus tax. I can trim off maybe $3K say a low price ~$68K plus tax. Mainly it's up for me do decide if I should get the M-DCT or the 6MT

I have shopped for the GTR and a few dealers wanted $95K (ish) but I have one that's willing to go +$5K over msrp so that's around $77K (ish).

I know there are people that won't pay over msrp but leave that aside just look at the results $71K M3 (with DCT) v $77K GTR

The GTR includes everything that is optional on the M3 such as navi, active shocks, premium sound, bluetooth, DCT etc..

So I look at the price difference just ~ $7K or $8K more for a GTR.

For which the GTR has more power/speed, AWD, more rare, maybe more street cred (?).

what am I looking for?

I like speed/power and I like to have a car that's somewhat looked at as status but not too much (I mean not like an Aston) although that's not to say I don't like Aston/Ferrari etc.. but I don't want the image of being rich-ie rich so a middle car around $75K +/- is what I am looking for.

I don't race on the street or on the track. I like quick and feeling of power but it's for my own enjoyment. In other words if I get a GTR I'm not going to looking for Z06s or Ford GTs to test it against. If I do go fast it's just for what I am feeling of accleleration and maybe a M3 feels quick (in isolation) I mean it's not like I'll feel bad knowing I don't have a car that can run door to door with a Z06.

I mean when I'm driving, if I want to dust off a car, I like some power just to go. But I don't mean I'm looking for the fastest car in the world. Specifically I have lived with a S2000 for almost 6 years. I would like some more pep than it has but I didn't upgrade to a Z06 for example b/c that aspect is not my main concern.

While I like the awd of the GTR, I think that' my biggest area of what I may like it's not like I am only looking for an awd car. I have other cars to drive in the snow so the awd would mainly be a tool to make the GTR more east to drive (more secure), but I don't think awd is magic like I know if you go past the limits with either car you can go off road.

I don't really push 9/10th any way. I mean even with my S2000, I don't drive as fast as the car is able. So it's just I like brisk back-roads and some quick accelerations but not racing.

Why you may ask don't I save so much and just get a 335i or such? Well I am a car nut. I always want the higher cars but have not got one yet. I am always too cheap. This time I want to go long and I don't plan to buy a lot of fancy cars in my life. I mean perhapse the M3 or GTR would be my best car ever. So I don't want to cheap out time after time.

So my question is the GTR sooo much better than the M3? Or is it a matter of preference? I mean if not actually racing will the M3 be as fun? Will the M3 be more luxurious or better built?

Do people think only one way or can you see being torn trying to decide if the price difference is less than $10K.

thanks.

What a dilemma!!!....two fantastic cars!
However im not sure what your priorities are.....The two cars you are contemplating are performance vehicles that truly cater to the driving enthusiasts.....sure you can use these cars as everyday drivers...trips to the mall or a leisure Sunday drive....but the true characteristics of the car comes out when pushed to the limits. the cars are riddled with technology to enhance the driving experience when pushed.
In your own words, you "dont push 9/10th anyway"
"....street cred"
....."..I like to have a car that's somewhat looked at as status"

so taking those statements into consideration...i believe what truly is important to you is image and how you look in a car....
Why not look at Mercedes Benz....perhaps a Porsche Caymen S....im not being critical or insulting...i just tried to decipher what you truly are looking for based on what you stated above.....
cheers, Shiggy

[rai]

thanks.

what I mean by street cred is something like this, you're driving and people give you a thumbs-up or you park in a car-night gathering and people come by and say nice car..

For example you drive a 911 GT3 or Ferrari 550 or NSX (etc..) don't necessarly mean they are the baddest fastest cars in the world but people say that's a nice car (more-so) than if you had a 335i or 350Z or 135i (for example). Not to say those other cars are bad, but they are just not a GTR or M3

What I mean is, I don't drive 9/10th. lets hope nobody does drive 9/10th on the street. My gosh, you can push a car or drive hard without getting up the the limit where you are getting reckless. I mean it's almost impossible to drive a car like a GTR where you are close to it's upper limit of performance that'd be like driving 170 mph or taking a corner flat out braking with full g-force etc..

I understand you can drive near the limit in places (ie. race tracks) but on real world (IMO) most people are driving just for a bit of fun and clearly a car like a GTR or M3 is more rewarding than a Camry (as an example).

I like spirit and soul and character in a car, I don't just want a status symbol even tho it sounds like you are saying I want to be a show-off. it's not like that. I like cars and would like more hard edge car like the GT3 but am leaning towards a car that is sporty but also has comfort (some) and utility (rear seats).

I say something like I want status, just b/c I am always going the low way. I mean usually I'd say well a 135i is half the cost of a M3 so why not save a few bucks. But this one time I want to get something nicer so that at least I'll be able to say I didn't buy it to save a few bucks. I mean status more like somebody who likes a fancy watch may buy one real nice watch even tho it's not needed more than say a $500 watch and not even to show off but just so he feels good about having something that not everyone else has. By all means I can afford more than the M3 by far so I'm not trying to pretend I'm richer than I am or to show off. I mean more just having something a cut above a car like a 350Z, 335i or G37 etc.

[lucid]

Since you do not want absolute performance, which can be be proven/debated by numbers, you are in a better position to answer your own questions than anyone else here. To the best of my knowledge, nobody on the forum has experienced both the M3 and the GTR.

[Los Angeles]

Hmm, considering this is an M3 forum.....

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say the M3 gets more votes.

[gbb357]

We all pretty much know about the performance capabilities of both cars. And obviously they are completely different in their execution and mission as high performance cars. So i think the final decision would be IMO, base on three factors. The first would be the test drive, and if possible drive them hard. Basically which one will be more sufficient for your needs and your lifestyle. The second one would be asthetics. Obviously this is very subjective, as the old saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The third and last one would be value. If your paying $70k for a fully loaded M3 or $70k base GTR, the decision would be tougher for me. But if the GTR's price is bloated by dealers of up to $90k, IMO it would not be worth it. If i really prefer the GTR, i'd rather wait when the demanding price becomes normal and the hype is gone. But $80k for the GTR is probably reasonable. Good luck on your decision, i could only wish i had your dilema.

[shiggy]

We all pretty much know about the performance capabilities of both cars. And obviously they are completely different in their execution and mission as high performance cars. So i think the final decision would be IMO, base on three factors. The first would be the test drive, and if possible drive them hard. Basically which one will be more sufficient for your needs and your lifestyle. The second one would be asthetics. Obviously this is very subjective, as the old saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The third and last one would be value. If your paying $70k for a fully loaded M3 or $70k base GTR, the decision would be tougher for me. But if the GTR's price is bloated by dealers of up to $90k, IMO it would not be worth it. If i really prefer the GTR, i'd rather wait when the demanding price becomes normal and the hype is gone. But $80k for the GTR is probably reasonable. Good luck on your decision, i could only wish i had your dilema.

...."IMO it would not be worth it."....how do you know its not worth it without seeing the car or driving it?....the GTR out performed the Porsche turbo and is substantially cheaper....not judging or flaming you...its just a strong statement without merit....

[gbb357]

...."IMO it would not be worth it."....how do you know its not worth it without seeing the car or driving it?....the GTR out performed the Porsche turbo and is substantially cheaper....not judging or flaming you...its just a strong statement without merit....

You are correct. It is quite a strong statement but not neccessarily without merit. Just remember it's only an opinion, and my opinion is base on the fact that i would prefer many other cars for $90k before i would consider the GTR. Even though most of the cars at $90k that i would prefer would not touch the GTR on the performance level, i would still prefer them on other terms such as looks and prestige. Again, just my humble opinion. Don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way.:cool!:

[///Mantis]

GTR

[BMW335icDDS]

This one is WAY too easy. I was on a waitlist for a M3, but the GT-R is the new KING. Read any car magazine, they call it the king, corvette crusher, instant legend. It is the car of the decade. The M3 isn't even close performance wise, and the M is supposed to stand for Motorsport. I say the M now stands for marketing since they are now trying to sell 100k of these things a year. And 70k for a M3? Only enthusiasts know the difference between a 3 and a M3. You get a sick awesome looking machine in the GTR that is unique, and has performance that bests a Veyron on any track. The GTR, easily.

[gbb357]

...."IMO it would not be worth it."....how do you know its not worth it without seeing the car or driving it?....the GTR out performed the Porsche turbo and is substantially cheaper....not judging or flaming you...its just a strong statement without merit....

Let me explain again so you don't get the idea that i'm in anyway dissing the GTR. If you can get the GTR for $80k or less, definitely go with the GTR. But $90k or more, personally IMO, i would not pay that much for the GTR. That's just me, my opinion is i'll have other options for $90k or more. The GTR right now is "The King of the Hill" as far as i'm concern and is probably the new "Supercar Killer" and the best "bang for the back". But the real competiton for the GTR i think in terms of price, performance, and value for the GTR is the Z06. Which is the current or former, depends who you ask, holder of all three titles i mentioned.:drink:

[shiggy]

You are correct. It is quite a strong statement but not neccessarily without merit. Just remember it's only an opinion, and my opinion is base on the fact that i would prefer many other cars for $90k before i would consider the GTR. Even though most of the cars at $90k that i would prefer would not touch the GTR on the performance level, i would still prefer them on other terms such as looks and prestige. Again, just my humble opinion. Don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way.:cool!:

cool :cool!:......by the way...what cars would you consider at $90k?
I personally cant think of any....i can think of a few between 100-150!

[KASM3]

For that price and based on what you wrote, I would recommend that you go with the GTR. Sounds like you want an extremely exclusive car but at a price you can afford. The E92/E90 M3 is FANTASTIC and I have one but I believe(IMHO) you will see a lot of them in 2 years. The GTR is going to have a limited production and because most people wont get MSRP on a GTR for a long time, you would draw a lot of attention when you are on the road(Get white);) I'm not debating which is better. So no flames please.They are both great cars both in different categories. I got the BMW because I jus aint paying 70-95K for a nissan no matter how quick it is. BMW is quality, great service and has a history of standing behind their products. Best way for me to justify the debit from my bank account. You cant go wrong either way but I think deep down, you want that GTR.
Good Luck!:cool!:

[DC52E55]

GTR.

[mojo]

Its an easy choice. Its like choosing between a Rolex and Casio at the same price - yes they are both fine time pieces but one is the real deal and the other a cheap copy. A Nissan is just a Nissan even with a stolen name like the GTR.

[swamp2]

This one is WAY too easy. I was on a waitlist for a M3, but the GT-R is the new KING. Read any car magazine, they call it the king, corvette crusher, instant legend. It is the car of the decade. The M3 isn't even close performance wise, and the M is supposed to stand for Motorsport. I say the M now stands for marketing since they are now trying to sell 100k of these things a year. And 70k for a M3? Only enthusiasts know the difference between a 3 and a M3. You get a sick awesome looking machine in the GTR that is unique, and has performance that bests a Veyron on any track. The GTR, easily.

Wow pretty bad from a BMW owner. Going OT here but I can't let such errors pass.

The M3 never has been an elite sports car. Sure it has a great racing and wining heritage in motosports but it has flat our NEVER been the top dog in pure performance. If you think a car that is about 4 seconds to 60 and can get to 100 in less than 10 and can boogie around the Nordeshleife in about 8 minutes flat is not a "motorsports" oriented/inspired/designed car I'd really like to know which top level Italian exotics you have been owning and driving :lol:. The M3 as always been about being a really practical, fun to drive sports coupe, and as you well know it has absolutely owned its class since inception, including the E9X M3! You are clearly wrong about who recognizes an M3 and who doesn't. It is an icon and recognized by BMW enthusiasts, car enthusiasts and even non car folks world wide. What is wrong with BMW trying to sell 100k M3s? It is not that many more than they sold E46 M3s, a healthy increase but not like double or anything. Lastly, as you know the M3 is not really $70k, sure you can spend more than that on one, but equally in a state without sales tax you can walk out the door with one for less than $60k. Typically when discussing prices you should qualify it as "nicely equipped, out the door" or just use the base price.

[BMW335icDDS]

Wow pretty bad from a BMW owner. Going OT here but I can't let such errors pass.

The M3 never has been an elite sports car. Sure it has a great racing and wining heritage in motosports but it has flat our NEVER been the top dog in pure performance. If you think a car that is about 4 seconds to 60 and can get to 100 in less than 10 and can boogie around the Nordeshleife in about 8 minutes flat is not a "motorsports" oriented/inspired/designed car I'd really like to know which top level Italian exotics you have been owning and driving :lol:. The M3 as always been about being a really practical, fun to drive sports coupe, and as you well know it has absolutely owned its class since inception, including the E9X M3! You are clearly wrong about who recognizes an M3 and who doesn't. It is an icon and recognized by BMW enthusiasts, car enthusiasts and even non car folks world wide. What is wrong with BMW trying to sell 100k M3s? It is not that many more than they sold E46 M3s, a healthy increase but not like double or anything. Lastly, as you know the M3 is not really $70k, sure you can spend more than that on one, but equally in a state without sales tax you can walk out the door with one for less than $60k. Typically when discussing prices you should qualify it as "nicely equipped, out the door" or just use the base price.

The M3 was only great when it didn't have to deal with the Skyline. Now it has to, and it absolutely getting crushed by the GT-R in any race. What is the M3 for then? Its now a GT car since it is getting its ass handed to it on the track? The GT-R is also way faster than just about any Italian sports car except for the super exotics. I am not wrong about the M3, compared to the GT-R it is a poseur vehicle. The old E46 M3, which is my favorite, was a car that had no competitors at its price. Now, the RS4 gives the M3 a huge run for its money and so does the C63. Everyone has upped their game because of the E46, to the point where even if the M3 is better, its lead is extremely small. Then comparing it to the GT-R, and it is just laughable. My opinion, and you can feel free to disagree. I just think the M3 has vastly overpriced itself and with competition from within, (the 335 with a chip is just as fast and good on the street) the M3 to me isn't that great. I have a E46 330i and never thought it would come close to a M3 unless I spent a whole ton of money. I don't remember when the E46 M3 ever had problems selling when it came out, yet right now the E92 M3 can be found at any BMW dealership.

Also, think about it this way. The performance that you can NOW have with the GT-R will take the M3 at least 2-3 MORE generations to meet. To me, that is absolutely shocking, telling you just how far ahead the GT-R is. 2-3 generations is around 14-21 years in BMW terms, so you can either wait that long for the M3 to do what the GT-R is doing now, or just get the better car. I feel like the M3 is poseur because even though it has track capabilities, how many M3 owners will actually take their car to the track? The truth is, VERY few. But the percentage of GT-R owners who do track their cars will be much much higher.

[rai]

Lastly, as you know the M3 is not really $70k, sure you can spend more than that on one, but equally in a state without sales tax you can walk out the door with one for less than $60k. Typically when discussing prices you should qualify it as "nicely equipped, out the door" or just use the base price.

first sales tax has nothing to do with a price. If I'm paying tax on a M3 or a GTR it cancels out except for a few hundred. as I said my price is BMW price with the options I listed, coupe, technology, sound, DCT. that's $10K in options and everything is included in the price of a GTR $70K plus bluetooth. So the real difference is the mark-up.

As I said in my first post one dealer told me they are doing +$5K on the GTR so that's $72K + $5K (or just straight $70K for the M3).

I do not say I'd get a no-option M3 since BMW makes many features null until you get the technology package. Also if I get the DCT.

Now i I was set on a 6MT that would be easy since the M3 is cheaper without and you can't get a MT with the GTR. Only when you add $11K of options to a M3 does it come with the equipment that is standard on the GTR.

[rai]

One point, the M3 is still in the running mainly since I love higher RPM engines (for some reason) and big reason is the M3 has REAL back seats. See as much as it's a performance car it's still very useful in a way a Z06 or even 911 turbo or GTR is not if I want to use the back seats.

Friend of mine has a 911 turbo and once his kids got to be teen-age he could no longer use it to take them to school (then he goes on to work) so he drives his TL most days. I don't drive my kids to school but it would be fine if once and a while I could put 2 kids in the back. I am not sure the GTR would have any real room behind the driver. The G37 coupe has 4" less legroom than the M3 coupe and 3 inches less headroom which I think the GTR will also.

The rear seats are nice for a family guy to have.

[Los Angeles]

.I am not sure the GTR would have any real room behind the driver. The G37 coupe has 4" less legroom than the M3 coupe and 3 inches less headroom which I think the GTR will also.

The rear seats are nice for a family guy to have.
Huh, what?

I'm 6'1'' and fit comfortable in the back of a G37.

The rear room is of no concern whatsoever. There's plenty.

[errant]

Whenever i'm faced with this kind of dilemma of choosing between 2 great cars, one way that helps is picturing myself in either one, and having the other one that i didn't buy drive past me/pull up next to me at the lights, etc.
I then ask myself several questions- how would I feel, measure my tinge of regret for not buying the other car on a 1-10 scale, ask myself if i would race it etc.
Then i reverse the cars and picture myself in the other one.
After being on the waiting list for an M3 for almost a year, that's what made me choose the GT-R instead- i figured i'd want one really badly each time i saw such a unique car on the streets, instead of (IMO) a 3 series on steroids.

[swamp2]

The M3 was only great when it didn't have to deal with the Skyline. Now it has to, and it absolutely getting crushed by the GT-R in any race. What is the M3 for then? Its now a GT car since it is getting its ass handed to it on the track? The GT-R is also way faster than just about any Italian sports car except for the super exotics. I am not wrong about the M3, compared to the GT-R it is a poseur vehicle. The old E46 M3, which is my favorite, was a car that had no competitors at its price. Now, the RS4 gives the M3 a huge run for its money and so does the C63. Everyone has upped their game because of the E46, to the point where even if the M3 is better, its lead is extremely small. Then comparing it to the GT-R, and it is just laughable. My opinion, and you can feel free to disagree. I just think the M3 has vastly overpriced itself and with competition from within, (the 335 with a chip is just as fast and good on the street) the M3 to me isn't that great. I have a E46 330i and never thought it would come close to a M3 unless I spent a whole ton of money. I don't remember when the E46 M3 ever had problems selling when it came out, yet right now the E92 M3 can be found at any BMW dealership.

Also, think about it this way. The performance that you can NOW have with the GT-R will take the M3 at least 2-3 MORE generations to meet. To me, that is absolutely shocking, telling you just how far ahead the GT-R is. 2-3 generations is around 14-21 years in BMW terms, so you can either wait that long for the M3 to do what the GT-R is doing now, or just get the better car. I feel like the M3 is poseur because even though it has track capabilities, how many M3 owners will actually take their car to the track? The truth is, VERY few. But the percentage of GT-R owners who do track their cars will be much much higher.

You are still comparing two cars that really do not compete. Sure they are close in price but since when has a Corvette, that will outperform an M3, and has always been priced less, be considered a real competitor to the M3? The same argument is true about the GT-R. The GT-Rs main competitors are the Z06 and 997TT.

Calling the M3 a poseur vehicle is simply outright drivel. Since when does the existence of a faster vehicle at a slightly higher price make any one vehicle a poseur vehicle? What nonsene. Again did past Vettes make the E46 M3 a poseur vehicle? This argument can be made nearly ad infinitum by having a superchanged mustang or camaro well track prepped and such cars can as well embarass many cars costing 2-3 times as much.

I agree with you that Lexus, Audi and MB have upped their games but BMW has not been sleeping. Except for few early "headline" oriented tests the M3 consistently bests all of the competitors from all of these brands. In other tests the M3 bested even the GT3 and R8 and even the holy GT-R in terms of either all around sports car or simply having a much better fun factor.

Your arguments about the chipped 335i are quite stale and ineffective as well. If all you want is a drag car why waste your money on a 335i+chip, see comments above about a supercharged camaro or mustang. The M3 is an absolute all arounder built to be an achiever in all use scenarios while excelling in the twisties, both for track times and fun factor. All the while delivering a superior build quality, european style and great longevity.

On your point about M3s being found at every dealership you are right. BMW requires dealerships to maintain a demo car. And if you did not notice, just as was the case with your beloved E46 M3, E9X M3s are flying off the lots in car crazy areas like CA, NY, FL, etc for well over sticker. Why, becuase the M brand is simply worth it to many folks.

Finally I think the percentages of folks who will track their GT-Rs is very close to the percent that will track their M3s. In general these cars both are (will be) bought for street cred, status, prestige, etc. Sure many of the buyers appreciate and will use some of their speed but most will never touch the ultimate potential of either car, track or street.

Look there is no denying that the GT-R is an incredible car. It is an absolute price to performance champion, hands down. Just because it is faster than the M3 it does not "ruin" the M3. Well if it does for you personally I guess you can feel that way but it is not universal nor fact.

Keep the misinformation and poor arguments coming... You are going to find a much more receptive audience on Nissan forums.

[rai]

Huh, what?

I'm 6'1'' and fit comfortable in the back of a G37.

The rear room is of no concern whatsoever. There's plenty.

sorry, I haven't been in the rear seat of the G37 so I was just going by the diminsions listed where the G has 4" less legroom and 2-3" less headroom than the 3-coupe. Usually when I drive my seat is 90% to 100% of the way back so maybe that's where I am thinking there is small or little legroom in the G37.

I can't say the GTR is too small in the rear seat but from the pics I have seen, I got the idea it's small like the 911s back seat.

[devo]

How can one compare two entirely different cars based on speed alone? There are far too many variables that define any car, especially a sports car.

If you want some of the best performance and speed for your dollar narrow your focus to a ZO6, Viper (yuk) or GT-R. If you want to add exclusivity -which you do- then eliminate the former two. Then, the way that I see it for you is there is only one choice. If I had to pick one, it would be the slower, more refined, more prestigious and likely more fun of your choices: the M car.

[rai]

thanks guys

I do not want to cause any trouble or flame war. This is really my decision. I like both cars and could be happy with either.

The point about the M3 v Z06 is true where the Z06 is quicker for the same cost as a M3. However when I think of the Z06 (and I drove a C5 Z06) I agree they are fun but sometimes could be hard to drive slow. Or meaning they are more fun when you are gunning it. My problem with that is being more of a daily car I don't want to be going 50 over the speed limit all the time.

I think (maybe) its possible the GTR is so fast it's east to go fast to get the feeling of speed. I have driven a 911 turbo and found the same thing, it would take 40 mph (posted) corners at 60 mph but make you feel ilke you are doing 30. Meaning while quick was not as fun as some cars.

ALSO. Test drives are fine but often I don't get comfortable in the short time they allow and with the sales person in the car it's hard to get the feel of what it's like to drive the car like I would if I owned it.

Maybe some people are able to block out the sales person and get a better feel of a car but for me it's hard.

Thanks for the ideas to think about. I am trying to read up as much from owners as well as magazine tests.

Part of the delima is the M3 is here already and the GTR is not so it'd be a longer wait for the GTR.

[gbb357]

Who ever thinks or said that BMW is trying to sell the M3 for $100k, is an idiot. It's not BMW, it's the dealers. And who ever thinks that it is okay for the M3 to sell for $100k is even a bigger moron. No matter how amazing the M3 is, it does not command that price. IT's not like it's a very limited production car. JMHO.

[rai]

I think they were talking about bmw wanting to sell 100K units meaning what 20K cars a year for 5 years.

The GTR said to be more limited less than 6000 cars worldwide per year they say even less but that's what people are saying something like 1500 GTRs to the US in it's first year.

[BMW335icDDS]

You are still comparing two cars that really do not compete. Sure they are close in price but since when has a Corvette, that will outperform an M3, and has always been priced less, be considered a real competitor to the M3? The same argument is true about the GT-R. The GT-Rs main competitors are the Z06 and 997TT.

Calling the M3 a poseur vehicle is simply outright drivel. Since when does the existence of a faster vehicle at a slightly higher price make any one vehicle a poseur vehicle? What nonsene. Again did past Vettes make the E46 M3 a poseur vehicle? This argument can be made nearly ad infinitum by having a superchanged mustang or camaro well track prepped and such cars can as well embarass many cars costing 2-3 times as much.

I agree with you that Lexus, Audi and MB have upped their games but BMW has not been sleeping. Except for few early "headline" oriented tests the M3 consistently bests all of the competitors from all of these brands. In other tests the M3 bested even the GT3 and R8 and even the holy GT-R in terms of either all around sports car or simply having a much better fun factor.

Your arguments about the chipped 335i are quite stale and ineffective as well. If all you want is a drag car why waste your money on a 335i+chip, see comments above about a supercharged camaro or mustang. The M3 is an absolute all arounder built to be an achiever in all use scenarios while excelling in the twisties, both for track times and fun factor. All the while delivering a superior build quality, european style and great longevity.

On your point about M3s being found at every dealership you are right. BMW requires dealerships to maintain a demo car. And if you did not notice, just as was the case with your beloved E46 M3, E9X M3s are flying off the lots in car crazy areas like CA, NY, FL, etc for well over sticker. Why, becuase the M brand is simply worth it to many folks.

Finally I think the percentages of folks who will track their GT-Rs is very close to the percent that will track their M3s. In general these cars both are (will be) bought for street cred, status, prestige, etc. Sure many of the buyers appreciate and will use some of their speed but most will never touch the ultimate potential of either car, track or street.

Look there is no denying that the GT-R is an incredible car. It is an absolute price to performance champion, hands down. Just because it is faster than the M3 it does not "ruin" the M3. Well if it does for you personally I guess you can feel that way but it is not universal nor fact.

Keep the misinformation and poor arguments coming... You are going to find a much more receptive audience on Nissan forums.

Well, I don't think you really understood my arguments. The GT-R IS a competitor to the M3 when the M3 starts to lose sales to it. For one, it lost mine. There are numerous other people on this forum who now put "Drives: GT-R" who were all potential M3 owners, but saw a better car for the same money. The M3 "demo cars" as you say are being sold, as none of the dealerships are using them as demo cars, or at least very few of them. You can buy a M3 for stickerprice at many places, search if you don't believe me. Also, I said for the STREET, where you can't use the M3's abilities, a chipped 335 is just as good on the street. Thats where the 335 is more comfortable, just as fast, and much more torque. My argument of the M3 of being a poseur vehicle is due to the fact that if you really wanted performance, you wouldn't have bought the M3. It is a compromise between luxury and track abilities, with BMW now shifiting the M3 more toward luxury to sell more of them. Also, the GT-R is much more of a competitor to the M3 than the vette since the vette is a 2 seater, while the GT-R has the exact same layout as the M3, 2+2 coupe Front engine and a big boot. The only difference is the AWD, which only enhances the GT-R's abilities.

Oh, and don't forget. the M in M3 is supposed to stand for motorsport. If that is the case, why shouldn't anyone compare the M3 to the best performance cars around the world, ESPECIALLY if its the exact same price as the M3? Oh thats right, the M now stands for marketing.

[devo]

Well, I don't think you really understood my arguments. The GT-R IS a competitor to the M3 when the M3 starts to lose sales to it. For one, it lost mine. There are numerous other people on this forum who now put "Drives: GT-R" who were all potential M3 owners, but saw a better car for the same money. The M3 "demo cars" as you say are being sold, as none of the dealerships are using them as demo cars, or at least very few of them. You can buy a M3 for stickerprice at many places, search if you don't believe me. Also, I said for the STREET, where you can't use the M3's abilities, a chipped 335 is just as good on the street. Thats where the 335 is more comfortable, just as fast, and much more torque. My argument of the M3 of being a poseur vehicle is due to the fact that if you really wanted performance, you wouldn't have bought the M3. It is a compromise between luxury and track abilities, with BMW now shifiting the M3 more toward luxury to sell more of them. Also, the GT-R is much more of a competitor to the M3 than the vette since the vette is a 2 seater, while the GT-R has the exact same layout as the M3, 2+2 coupe Front engine and a big boot. The only difference is the AWD, which only enhances the GT-R's abilities.

Oh, and don't forget. the M in M3 is supposed to stand for motorsport. If that is the case, why shouldn't anyone compare the M3 to the best performance cars around the world, ESPECIALLY if its the exact same price as the M3? Oh thats right, the M now stands for marketing.

Faster does not make it better! Just because some potential M3 buyers supposedly jumped ship and are going the GT-R route does not mean that it is a competitor to the M. Different cars for different puposes.

Using your rationale, a rocket strapped to a Neon would yeild a better sports car if only it handled as well.

The Nissan's major advantages are it's transmission, price and it's exclusivity. Remove any one of those and it could be a bust.

If money were not a consideration any reasonable, passionate buyer would pick a 997tt over the GT-R all day long even if the 997 was slower in most contests.

[BMW335icDDS]

Faster does not make it better! Just because some potential M3 buyers supposedly jumped ship and are going the GT-R route does not mean that it is a competitor to the M. Different cars for different puposes.

Using your rationale, a rocket strapped to a Neon would yeild a better sports car if only it handled as well.

The Nissan's major advantages are it's transmission, price and it's exclusivity. Remove any one of those and it could be a bust.

If money were not a consideration any reasonable, passionate buyer would pick a 997tt over the GT-R all day long even if the 997 was slower in most contests.

When you say your car is a track car (M is motorsport correct? when has anyone every won in motorsport being slower?), the car that comes in fastest DOES win. The GT-R has awesome handling and makes you feel like a super hero. The Nissan's advantages are simply its a better car. Oh, and I HAVE a 997 S. And I am already liking the GT-R more. Again, if M is for motorsport, why NOT be able to compare it to other awesome performance cars? The reason why people don't like comparing the GT-R to the M3 is that the only way to defend the M3 is to say subjective things like the M3 is better looking or that it has a better badge. Because objectively, the GT-R crushes the M3 in just about every measurement.

[rai]

If money were not a consideration any reasonable, passionate buyer would pick a 997tt over the GT-R all day long even if the 997 was slower in most contests.
Not sure about that.

however what does that mean? Is Porsche going to sell a new 911 turbo for $70K and if they do won't that be bad-bad for the M3s more than anything?

[devo]

When you say your car is a track car (M is motorsport correct? when has anyone every won in motorsport being slower?), the car that comes in fastest DOES win. The GT-R has awesome handling and makes you feel like a super hero. The Nissan's advantages are simply its a better car. Oh, and I HAVE a 997 S. And I am already liking the GT-R more. Again, if M is for motorsport, why NOT be able to compare it to other awesome performance cars? The reason why people don't like comparing the GT-R to the M3 is that the only way to defend the M3 is to say subjective things like the M3 is better looking or that it has a better badge. Because objectively, the GT-R crushes the M3 in just about every measurement.

Objectively, the GT-R crushes the M. Emotionally, not so much.

[devo]

Not sure about that.

however what does that mean? Is Porsche going to sell a new 911 turbo for $70K and if they do won't that be bad-bad for the M3s more than anything?

It means that you get what you pay for.

[BMW335icDDS]

Objectively, the GT-R crushes the M. Emotionally, not so much.

Again, all you can say is a SUBJECTIVE thing. To me, the GT-R is emotionally more mesmorizing than the M3. I also find the GT-R to be better looking.

[DC52E55]

Again, all you can say is a SUBJECTIVE thing. To me, the GT-R is emotionally more mesmorizing than the M3. I also find the GT-R to be better looking.

IMHO, GTR is pretty ugly, but then when was the last time you see a beast that looks pretty? I like it that way.

[BMW335icDDS]

IMHO, GTR is pretty ugly, but then when was the last time you see a beast that looks pretty? I like it that way.

Well, I like it cause its so bad-ass. Its not a pretty boy like the M3. ;)

[swamp2]

Who ever thinks or said that BMW is trying to sell the M3 for $100k, is an idiot. It's not BMW, it's the dealers. And who ever thinks that it is okay for the M3 to sell for $100k is even a bigger moron. No matter how amazing the M3 is, it does not command that price. IT's not like it's a very limited production car. JMHO.


Although I have seen a sticker with a markup very close to $100k I certainly agree that is utter nonsense. The point here was quantity not price, i.e. 100k cars in total number sold over its lifespan, not the price!

[BMW335icDDS]

Ok...I am actually kind of going through the same thing as you, and here is what I can give you!!! If you want class, look, decent performance, and a car that girls like...then M3!!! If you want not bad looking, and a car that will beat everyone on the street...then GTR! GTR is the best performance car you can get right now...I mean it can beat GT3 (180,000), F430 (180,000), and Gallardo (180,000)...and for just only around 80,000!!! M3 seems kind of expensive to me, but GTR...seems pretty cheap if you do not care that it is a Nissan car. I am pretty sure you can find a GTR with MSRP, just look for more places. Just walk in and say I want a GTR now and if you give me MSRP I will buy it right now!!! xD I am pretty sure someone will tell you ok!!!

If you find a dealer that will do MSRP, please let me know! I'm on a long waitlist and waiting until the price is MSRP, but to my knowledge I think that will take at least 1-2 years... especially since it is so limited.

[Krueger///M3]

Gosh, just because the GTR is faster doesn't make it better. No flames, but the M3 is european and looks a lot better.(I am on a GTR waiting list, lottery for a name pull, and I think the car is awesome). Dont bash the M3, like I've said before, the M3 has never before been able to compete with such great supercars like the GTR, GT3 and so on, now it is, contrats to the M3. The only difference is with the GTR this time around is that Nissan decided to engineer it for the US too. I agree with Devo who is getting a GTR and a M3 and Swamp

[rai]

Ok...I am actually kind of going through the same thing as you!!!
couple of dealers in my area said +$20K which is crazy to me since I won't pay it. But then I said f-that if it's $95K what else can I get and looked for a minute at the 911S adds up to $97K in a jiff and that's a car that's been around for 3 years already so the GTR even tho I won't pay $97K for IMO is on par with most 911s. I recall Porsche is making profits of $20K per car so somewhere in there has to be a big built in mark-up even if it's not said out loud we're charging +$20K like the Nissan dealers are.

I think I can live with +$5K (I have a dealer willing).

I think if I didn't want the DCT option with the M3 I'd be more set on the M3 but adding the price of that option plus the fact it's later release will make the M3 come later in the year maybe similar to a GTR which is also a later in the year car.

[rai]

Gosh, just because the GTR is faster doesn't make it better. No flames, but the M3 is european and looks a lot better

the M3 has never before been able to compete with such great supercars like the GTR, GT3 and so on, now it is, contrats to the M3. The only difference is with the GTR this time around is that Nissan decided to engineer it for the US too.

I agree with Devo who is getting a GTR and a M3some people (some) don't feel the M3 is better looking at all. There is not like everyone will agree on this. Like my gosh it's not a Aston Vantage or anything. It's somewhat bulging bangalized small sedan or coupe.

I don't know about the GTRs interior level (leather etc.) or it's sound system may not be as good as the premium sound M3. But the running stuff (tranny, diffs, brakes, wheels, etc.) maybe better than the M3. It's got a flat underbody pannel like a race car (F430 has also).

See this is what I think it's boiling down to if I said M3 or GT3 most people would say if you can afford the GT3 that's the better car. (I think there is little debate) or maybe 911 turbo v M3 (people would say the turbo is better for a lot higher cost).

But when people see the GTR just costs $7K (ish) more than a M3 they can't say the price anymore so they say it's a Nissan or it's not european etc..

I agree also, I'd like to get both. If I was single or didn't want an early retirement it'd be easy to get a M3 now and get a GTR in 18 months or after the supply is higher. But for me it's one or the other meaning one great car and probably will never get the other car so I am pondering it daily.

BTW I don't want to sound like I don't love the M3 it's great and if not for the cost going up (with options) to $70K which is right there with a GTR there would not be a doubt. However bmw forced me to pick technology pack (to get m-button and CA) and I figure once I'm at technology I should get the premium sound (also BMW cripples the base sound lesser than a 335 which is a much cheaper car. I mean p-off BMW at least offer premium sound without having to technology first. etc.) BMW makes great car with great price (base) but with $12K in options not so great as could be.

[devo]

Ok...I am actually kind of going through the same thing as you, and here is what I can give you!!! If you want class, look, decent performance, and a car that girls like...then M3!!! If you want not bad looking, and a car that will beat everyone on the street...then GTR! GTR is the best performance car you can get right now...I mean it can beat GT3 (180,000), F430 (180,000), and Gallardo (180,000)...and for just only around 80,000!!! M3 seems kind of expensive to me, but GTR...seems pretty cheap if you do not care that it is a Nissan car. I am pretty sure you can find a GTR with MSRP, just look for more places. Just walk in and say I want a GTR now and if you give me MSRP I will buy it right now!!! xD I am pretty sure someone will tell you ok!!!

Getting a GT-R for MSRP is obviously not impossible, but it very unlikely if you expect to get one this year. Nissan is only producing cars in 2008 as MY2009s in March and April 2008 for June and July deliveries. Demand will dictate how many they will produce in subsequent years.

The GT-R forums and media indicate that some cars have been pre-sold at MSRP, however, they certainly are not the majority. I have heard of many actually selling for $20k over.

So, I do not really think one would have too much luck getting a car at your price so easily. Of course, mine will be here in June/July and, although, I do not intend on selling it in the near term, the right price can take it away :D.

[rai]

it's tempting to me to get a M3 first and get a GTR at msrp in a few years. If I got a M3 now it'd be easier to wait 2+ years on the GTR.

In that case maybe it'd be better to get a lower cost M3 such as low option car (ie. $60K-ish) do without the technology, premium sound, DCT (further if I went with a sedan) I could shave $10K off my cost.

[M-Maika]

If i were you i would go for the M3.
-Less waiting time.
-More beautiful
-Can take 2 extra passengers
-Cheaper
-Good performance

bs the other car is just a nissan ( what a crap of brand )
Shore they are japanese and they know what they are doing, but it´s a Nissan.

My 2 cents

[BMW335icDDS]

If i were you i would go for the M3.
-Less waiting time.
-More beautiful
-Can take 2 extra passengers
-Cheaper
-Good performance

bs the other car is just a nissan ( what a crap of brand )
Shore they are japanese and they know what they are doing, but it´s a Nissan.

My 2 cents

I'd say the same thing if I could barely speak english. Must make you cry that the M3 can't hang with the crappy Nissan.

[swamp2]

I'd say the same thing if I could barely speak english. Must make you cry that the M3 can't hang with the crappy Nissan.

Try your reply to him in Spanish and see you you do. :mad0259:

[rai]

I just talked to the sales person who was going to sell me a GTR for +$5000 said not to expect a car for 1+ year as they are not getting enough so there are too many people ahead of me even to take a deposit. I'm on the waiting list just to get on the waiting list it would seem.

Likely if I can't locate a GTR w/o a huge mark-up I'll not get one.

--

My point is if the GTR is selling true for msrp +$20K then it's not so big a deal, I'll wait. I was asking myself if I'd pay $10K (more than a M3) to get a GTR but if it's +$30K more than a M3 that's not hard for me to say I won't need it.

the M3 is way more here and now, bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. if I can make up my mind about the 6MT or DCT it'd be almost ready to order.

[OzCarfreak]

GTR

[dechoong]

Oh, and don't forget. the M in M3 is supposed to stand for motorsport. If that is the case, why shouldn't anyone compare the M3 to the best performance cars around the world, ESPECIALLY if its the exact same price as the M3? Oh thats right, the M now stands for marketing.

BMW Motorsports is running the 485bhp E92 M3 ALMS GT2 this year, a race prepped version of the road car. As far as I can recall, I don't remember seeing Nissan running any Skyline or GT-R in any major GT series... other than the fake Japanese Super GT series with a 4.5L V8. If you want to talk about motorsports credentials or racing heritage, the GT-R isn't even close.

But not having the motorsports credentials of the M3 doesn't take anything away from the fact the GT-R is a great road car.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

GTR has great performance, but its a Nissan and it looks it too!!!! Would pay for that car at all!!! Just my personal feeling!!!

[BMW335icDDS]

BMW Motorsports is running the 485bhp E92 M3 ALMS GT2 this year, a race prepped version of the road car. As far as I can recall, I don't remember seeing Nissan running any Skyline or GT-R in any major GT series... other than the fake Japanese Super GT series with a 4.5L V8. If you want to talk about motorsports credentials or racing heritage, the GT-R isn't even close.

But not having the motorsports credentials of the M3 doesn't take anything away from the fact the GT-R is a great road car.

The GT-R has been racing for a quite a while, and if you don't know also has quite a history as the Skyline. Even if the GT-R doesn't race where the M3's are, at least I can compare the cars that are being sold, which conveniently come at the same price. And that is where the M3 gets humbled, and comparisons between the GT-R and M3 based on performance are laughable. Like I said earlier, it will take the M3 at least 2-3 generations to reach the performance level of the GT-R. That is a SHOCKING 14-21 years, and really emphasizes just how far ahead of the curve the GT-R is.

[dechoong]

The GT-R has been racing for a quite a while, and if you don't know also has quite a history as the Skyline. Even if the GT-R doesn't race where the M3's are, at least I can compare the cars that are being sold, which conveniently come at the same price. And that is where the M3 gets humbled, and comparisons between the GT-R and M3 based on performance are laughable. Like I said earlier, it will take the M3 at least 2-3 generations to reach the performance level of the GT-R. That is a SHOCKING 14-21 years, and really emphasizes just how far ahead of the curve the GT-R is.

I'm stressing the M3 motorsports and racing heritage which you denied. You don't see the Skyline or GT-R competing with the M3 because their racing cars do not meet the FIA GT homologation requirements... meaning the race car has to be based on the road cars that they sell. The GT-R in the Japanese Super GT series uses a one off 4.5L V8, and it's not even a 4wd like the road going version. Hence you won't find a Skyline (in the past) or a GT-R in the prestigious European or American LeMans series under the GT category. The E92 M3 has more in common with its racing version than the GT-R will ever be.

Besides, what is so surprising that the GT-R outperforms the E92 M3? Take into account the GT-R has a 3.8L V6 vs 4L V8 (very close in displacement), but with twin turbochargers and a very advanced 4wd hardware, I'm sure Nissan engineers would commit seppuku if the GT-R only matches the performance of the M3. However, I'm truly impressed that they can do it at such competitive price :thumbsup:

[ChrisFastM3]

Like I said earlier, it will take the M3 at least 2-3 generations to reach the performance level of the GT-R. That is a SHOCKING 14-21 years, and really emphasizes just how far ahead of the curve the GT-R is.

Source? Dude for all you know, in 21 years the new M3 will be electric with 2000 hp and 2000 tq at an instant and constant since it'll run on electricity. You see, I can site out a BS opinion too............

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I'm stressing the M3 motorsports and racing heritage which you denied. You don't see the Skyline or GT-R competing with the M3 because their racing cars do not meet the FIA GT homologation requirements... meaning the race car has to be based on the road cars that they sell. The GT-R in the Japanese Super GT series uses a one off 4.5L V8, and it's not even a 4wd like the road going version. Hence you won't find a Skyline (in the past) or a GT-R in the prestigious European or American LeMans series under the GT category. The E92 M3 has more in common with its racing version than the GT-R will ever be.

Besides, what is so surprising that the GT-R outperforms the E92 M3? Take into account the GT-R has a 3.8L V6 vs 4L V8 (very close in displacement), but with twin turbochargers and a very advanced 4wd hardware, I'm sure Nissan engineers would commit seppuku if the GT-R only matches the performance of the M3. However, I'm truly impressed that they can do it at such competitive price :thumbsup:

Very well put, thanks for all of this information that I had no idea!! I always wondered why the Japanese cars do not compete on GT series.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Source? Dude for all you know, in 21 years the new M3 will be electric with 2000 hp and 2000 tq at an instant and constant since it'll run on electricity. You see, I can site out a BS opinion too............

Hahahaha!! Agree entirely!! Maybe 2,500 hp!! :confused0068: Anway, I agree that to say the M3 need 21 years to "catch up" to the GTR seems a bit stretched to say the least!!

[BMW335icDDS]

Source? Dude for all you know, in 21 years the new M3 will be electric with 2000 hp and 2000 tq at an instant and constant since it'll run on electricity. You see, I can site out a BS opinion too............

Yea, except you sound much more ridiculous. At the very least, the next 7 years the M3 will be dominated by the GT-R. If you used your brain and any logic, you would see that with the incremental improvments the M3 makes in its history, it won't be approaching the current GT-R even in its next generation. So it would take at least 2-3 generations.

[jaiman]

. The GT-R in the Japanese Super GT series uses a one off 4.5L V8, and it's not even a 4wd like the road going version.

FYI: the longer term plan is to use the 3.8tt motor, but it's not ready for racing yet, in the interim the engine that was used in the 350Z based car is being used.

[dechoong]

FYI: the longer term plan is to use the 3.8tt motor, but it's not ready for racing yet, in the interim the engine that was used in the 350Z based car is being used.

Till then... currently none of the Japanese racers in the GT500 class is using an engine that has anything to do with their road cars. The old Skyline certainly wasn't using the TT in-line 6 what was then Japan GT days.

[FifthStreetz]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4152/r35bil0.png

maybe that can help you decide.

So huge...

[jaiman]

Hmmm, based on the GT-R website the GT-R is 40mm longer than the M3, but its also 80mm narrower and 54mm shorter.

So yeah its a real whale!!! :rolleyes:

[dechoong]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4152/r35bil0.png

maybe that can help you decide.

So huge...

Holy S**t! :bulge: ... and I thought the old Skyline was a little too bulky.

[ChrisFastM3]

Yea, except you sound much more ridiculous. At the very least, the next 7 years the M3 will be dominated by the GT-R. If you used your brain and any logic, you would see that with the incremental improvments the M3 makes in its history, it won't be approaching the current GT-R even in its next generation. So it would take at least 2-3 generations.

All I'm saying is that nobody can look that far in the future....... I was just trying to prove a point. 2,000hp, 200,000hp, whatever. Just making a point.

For instance, lets say just for the hell of it the GT-R greatly reduces the M3's sales & they don't reach the 100,000 car mark they set out for. Do you think those inginous German engineers are gonna sit there & go "oh well"? :confused0068:

Sorry for going a bit off topic

[M-Maika]

I'd say the same thing if I could barely speak english. Must make you cry that the M3 can't hang with the crappy Nissan.


I´m not buying an M3 to race with GT-R.
If i wanted to kick ass nissan i would buy a Veyron.
All the GT-R owners could get another 2 or 3 turbos more and even so would take up the ass.

Barely speak English !!!

You are such a looser.

[BMW335icDDS]

I´m not buying an M3 to race with GT-R.
If i wanted to kick ass nissan i would buy a Veyron.
All the GT-R owners could get another 2 or 3 turbos more and even so would take up the ass.

Barely speak English !!!

You are such a looser.

Hey, if I couldn't argue intelligently either, I'd probably resort to name calling like you. I'm sure you don't have the means to buy a Veyron, but the GT-R has Veyron like performance (actually it beats it on the Nurburgring). Yea, I must be such a loser since I worked hard to attain a well respected job with a 997S in my garage along with the 335 Vert. Not to mention being on a waitlist for the GT-R. Yea, I must be such a loser. :bellyroll

[BMW335icDDS]

All I'm saying is that nobody can look that far in the future....... I was just trying to prove a point. 2,000hp, 200,000hp, whatever. Just making a point.

For instance, lets say just for the hell of it the GT-R greatly reduces the M3's sales & they don't reach the 100,000 car mark they set out for. Do you think those inginous German engineers are gonna sit there & go "oh well"? :confused0068:

Sorry for going a bit off topic

Point well taken. My point was simply that the next M3 most likely won't be as fast as this gen's GT-R, so to buy the next M3 that can do what the GT-R can do right now will probably be in 2-3 generations.

[BMW335icDDS]

I'm stressing the M3 motorsports and racing heritage which you denied. You don't see the Skyline or GT-R competing with the M3 because their racing cars do not meet the FIA GT homologation requirements... meaning the race car has to be based on the road cars that they sell. The GT-R in the Japanese Super GT series uses a one off 4.5L V8, and it's not even a 4wd like the road going version. Hence you won't find a Skyline (in the past) or a GT-R in the prestigious European or American LeMans series under the GT category. The E92 M3 has more in common with its racing version than the GT-R will ever be.

Besides, what is so surprising that the GT-R outperforms the E92 M3? Take into account the GT-R has a 3.8L V6 vs 4L V8 (very close in displacement), but with twin turbochargers and a very advanced 4wd hardware, I'm sure Nissan engineers would commit seppuku if the GT-R only matches the performance of the M3. However, I'm truly impressed that they can do it at such competitive price :thumbsup:


Well, here's my argument. If heritage and racing in a prestigeous league means so much, why then does it not translate to the success of their street cars? You did say that the racing series is based off street cars right? I will not pretend I know much about these racing series, because I don't. But I do know that when it came to street car versions of these race cars, the M3 got massively outclassed. And for the one putting the photo of how "massive" the GT-R is, whats more amazing is that it outhandles the M3 despite its size. It is faster around corners and corners better. Thats amazing.

Oh yea, last time I checked, the E92 M3 wasn't exactly the smallest or lightest M3 ever made either.

[jaiman]

Hey, if I couldn't argue intelligently either, I'd probably resort to name calling like you. I'm sure you don't have the means to buy a Veyron, but the GT-R has Veyron like performance (actually it beats it on the Nurburgring). Yea, I must be such a loser since I worked hard to attain a well respected job with a 997S in my garage along with the 335 Vert. Not to mention being on a waitlist for the GT-R. Yea, I must be such a loser. :bellyroll

Actually you're a loser for making fun of a non-native speaker's English. I'd like to see you post in Portugese.

What do you call a Med School drop out? A dentist!

[M-Maika]

Hey, if I couldn't argue intelligently either, I'd probably resort to name calling like you. I'm sure you don't have the means to buy a Veyron, but the GT-R has Veyron like performance (actually it beats it on the Nurburgring). Yea, I must be such a loser since I worked hard to attain a well respected job with a 997S in my garage along with the 335 Vert. Not to mention being on a waitlist for the GT-R. Yea, I must be such a loser. :bellyroll

I´m not the one who starter to be an ass**** by saying that my english is bad.
It was easyer to call me a direct name.

No arguments on that.
You are not a looser.

You are for shure an ass****.
By the way, i don´t care if you worked hard or not to get your RESPECTABLE job and cars. For all all know you could be a pimp and i don´t give a *****.

No more comments with ass***** like you.

[M-Maika]

Actually you're a loser for making fun of a non-native speaker's English. I'd like to see you post in Portugese.

What do you call a Med School drop out? A dentist!

Thanks for the support.

[BMW335icDDS]

Actually you're a loser for making fun of a non-native speaker's English. I'd like to see you post in Portugese.

What do you call a Med School drop out? A dentist!

Haha, this is funny. The average UCLA Dental student's GPA is 3.7, higher than most med schools. I choose to be a dentist, because we get paid just as much and have a better life. So get educated before you spit out crap from your mouth. Don't even pretend you ever had the brains to be any sort of doctor. And if you haven't noticed, dentists and doctors have the highest average pay in the USA. 2 are just being a general for each field, while the other 8 are specialists within each field.

Oh, and I didn't go to a foreign BMW forum and start spitting out nonsense. If you can't speak the language, use Google Translator before you post.

[swamp2]

Hey, if I couldn't argue intelligently either, I'd probably resort to name calling like you. I'm sure you don't have the means to buy a Veyron, but the GT-R has Veyron like performance (actually it beats it on the Nurburgring). Yea, I must be such a loser since I worked hard to attain a well respected job with a 997S in my garage along with the 335 Vert. Not to mention being on a waitlist for the GT-R. Yea, I must be such a loser. :bellyroll

Haha, this is funny. The average UCLA Dental student's GPA is 3.7, higher than most med schools. I choose to be a dentist, because we get paid just as much and have a better life. So get educated before you spit out crap from your mouth. Don't even pretend you ever had the brains to be any sort of doctor. And if you haven't noticed, dentists and doctors have the highest average pay in the USA. 2 are just being a general for each field, while the other 8 are specialists within each field.

Oh, and I didn't go to a foreign BMW forum and start spitting out nonsense. If you can't speak the language, use Google Translator before you post.

Wow, what an insecure loser you are. That is 3 votes for you as a loser. Can you read your own drivel above without cringing? Nothing but boasting and all about your cars and money. Grow up or get lost. It looks like one ounce of tolerance for a non perfect non English speaker is just out of your range. Hope your bedside manner is significantly better.

Btw I think you should try posting on a Spanish speaking car enthusiasts forum using google tranlation. You'll come out sounding like even more of a jackass than you do in English.

PS. You have a lot of nice cars for still being in school. I suppose your daddy bought them for you.

[BMW335icDDS]

Wow, what an insecure loser you are. That is 3 votes for you as a loser. Can you read your own drivel above without cringing? Nothing but boasting and all about your cars and money. Grow up or get lost. It looks like one ounce of tolerance for a non perfect non English speaker is just out of your range. Hope your bedside manner is significantly better.

Btw I think you should try posting on a Spanish speaking car enthusiasts forum using google tranlation. You'll come out sounding like even more of a jackass than you do in English.

PS. You have a lot of nice cars for still being in school. I suppose your daddy bought them for you.

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

[Keto]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

All that bad breath is getting to you. How can you be smarter when you can't conjugate the most basic verb in the English language? I are better than you!

PS. Your girl am smarter than you.

/thread

[malter2.0]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

I doubt anyone here envies you. If anything, people here pity you for utter lack of humbleness, even if you were the smartest than just about any one on this forum. Bold claim, I must say, especially considering you are talking to a sea of engineers. Doctors I've met and have in family (brother) rarely boast about their achievements. I heard it has to deal with confidence. People who know their self-worth rarely have to show it, most of the time it shows itself.

If you really want to split hairs, dental school has never been the epitome of intelligence, much less hard work. I would argue that medical school requires most hours and persistent hard work to finish, while post-graduate studies in science/engineering require most abstract/spatial thinking and conceptualization that are often associated with high intelligence. Granted, intelligence has never been bound by education, but it is safe to say that on average this is pretty reasonable distribution.

more inteligent person

Forum has built-in spell checker. If you plan on calling yourself intelligent, at least put an effort to spell it correctly. It's the least you can do.

[swamp2]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

Wow, you are indeed a real piece of work. In case you didn't notice you are getting totally schooled by a lot of folks here. They are all more articulate and by all visible measures more intelligent than you are.

P.S. What's up with the incorrect handle, you are not a DDS if you are still in school? Good thing I don't try to put all my degrees in my forum handle...

Seriously stop looking for attention, looking like a serious a**hole and keep to the discussion about cars.

[dechoong]

Well, here's my argument. If heritage and racing in a prestigeous league means so much, why then does it not translate to the success of their street cars? You did say that the racing series is based off street cars right? I will not pretend I know much about these racing series, because I don't. But I do know that when it came to street car versions of these race cars, the M3 got massively outclassed. And for the one putting the photo of how "massive" the GT-R is, whats more amazing is that it outhandles the M3 despite its size. It is faster around corners and corners better. Thats amazing.

Oh yea, last time I checked, the E92 M3 wasn't exactly the smallest or lightest M3 ever made either.

How is the E46 M3 not successful with a total of over 70,000 units sold during its production run? I'm quite sure BMW will achieve their target sales of 100,000 E90 series M3 in its lifetime.

Are you forgetting the platform the M3 is built on? It is a 3 series, a humble small luxury sedan. Are you also aware what the E92 M3 ALMS GT2 is up against in its GT class? Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, Ferrari 430 GT Berlinetta, Panoz Esperante GTLM etc. Their road versions are purpose built sports car with a price tag at least 50% more than the E92 M3.

And how is the M3 outclassed in its category? The M3 is up against the likes of C63 AMG, RS4, IS-F etc and it is consistently rated as the best in its class. Till Nissan builds a Sentra (Maxima in States) that can run with the M3 and still qualifies for the FIA GT series, they are not yet in the game. Like I've said, as good as the GT-R is, it's not in the same field as the M3.

Let me put it this way... if Nissan reverse engineered the GT-R's 4.5L V8 in its race series for the road so that their race car meets the FIA GT homologation requirements, I'm very sure they won't be able to sell it at US$70k you will be paying.

[M-Maika]

Wow, you are indeed a real piece of work. In case you didn't notice you are getting totally schooled by a lot of folks here. They are all more articulate and by all visible measures more intelligent than you are.

P.S. What's up with the incorrect handle, you are not a DDS if you are still in school? Good thing I don't try to put all my degrees in my forum handle...

Seriously stop looking for attention, looking like a serious a**hole and keep to the discussion about cars.

Could´t agree with you more.
I was thinking that i was the only one to think that this guy ( BMW335icDDS ) was an ass****.
Uffffff

[jaiman]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

hahahaha. Guess money doesn't buy class.

ps. I work in finance and the pv(my future earnings) > pv(your future earnings) by an order of magnitude.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Holy S**t! :bulge: ... and I thought the old Skyline was a little too bulky.

Boy that GTR front looks ugly!!!

[dechoong]

Boy that GTR front looks ugly!!!

Didn't realise the GT-R is that big... thought it was about the same size as the R34 Skyline at the front.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Wow, what an insecure loser you are. That is 3 votes for you as a loser. Can you read your own drivel above without cringing? Nothing but boasting and all about your cars and money. Grow up or get lost. It looks like one ounce of tolerance for a non perfect non English speaker is just out of your range. Hope your bedside manner is significantly better.

Btw I think you should try posting on a Spanish speaking car enthusiasts forum using google tranlation. You'll come out sounding like even more of a jackass than you do in English.

PS. You have a lot of nice cars for still being in school. I suppose your daddy bought them for you.

Agreed, agreed, agreed!!!!

[Krueger///M3]

The GT-R has been racing for a quite a while, and if you don't know also has quite a history as the Skyline. Even if the GT-R doesn't race where the M3's are, at least I can compare the cars that are being sold, which conveniently come at the same price. And that is where the M3 gets humbled, and comparisons between the GT-R and M3 based on performance are laughable. Like I said earlier, it will take the M3 at least 2-3 generations to reach the performance level of the GT-R. That is a SHOCKING 14-21 years, and really emphasizes just how far ahead of the curve the GT-R is.

So, why didn't you buy a GT500 instead of your 335i and put an extra 8-10k into it, It would clearly murder your 335i in pretty much all accounts. It is not just about speed. It may take several years for the 335i to catch up to the C6 Corvette in terms of performance but that doesn't mean that people are always going to choose the Corvette over the 335i. Not everything is about price-point and straight out performance!

[Krueger///M3]

Wow, what an insecure loser you are. That is 3 votes for you as a loser. Can you read your own drivel above without cringing? Nothing but boasting and all about your cars and money. Grow up or get lost. It looks like one ounce of tolerance for a non perfect non English speaker is just out of your range. Hope your bedside manner is significantly better.

Btw I think you should try posting on a Spanish speaking car enthusiasts forum using google tranlation. You'll come out sounding like even more of a jackass than you do in English.

PS. You have a lot of nice cars for still being in school. I suppose your daddy bought them for you.

+1,000,000 Swamp always seems to say it right.

[Krueger///M3]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

You know, you are really smart, so smart you couldn't conjugate the verb "to be" to the singular form speaking of yourself. "I...am" Not "I...are." Listening to too much Timbaland lately?

[drvai]

This conversation is so out off topic.

The M3 and GT-R are SO different cars. You can't really compare them.

Rai: this is a decision you will have to make. You already have the facts.
German luxury/performance or Japanese sports car.

To the dentist: man... I understand you got pushed, but your statements about being "better" than the rest of the forum is really concerning. Everyone has a "glass roof" and just by knowing what you say/do/have people could say a lot to you.

[OC kid]

I doubt anyone here envies you. If anything, people here pity you for utter lack of humbleness, even if you were the smartest than just about any one on this forum. Bold claim, I must say, especially considering you are talking to a sea of engineers. Doctors I've met and have in family (brother) rarely boast about their achievements. I heard it has to deal with confidence. People who know their self-worth rarely have to show it, most of the time it shows itself.

If you really want to split hairs, dental school has never been the epitome of intelligence, much less hard work. I would argue that medical school requires most hours and persistent hard work to finish, while post-graduate studies in science/engineering require most abstract/spatial thinking and conceptualization that are often associated with high intelligence. Granted, intelligence has never been bound by education, but it is safe to say that on average this is pretty reasonable distribution.


Forum has built-in spell checker. If you plan on calling yourself intelligent, at least put an effort to spell it correctly. It's the least you can do.

:clap: +1, you nailed it malter.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

:clap: +1, you nailed it malter.

+2 I´m with you!!! Lol! :lol:

[ChrisFastM3]

I am smarter than just about any one on this forum.

My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum.

Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you.

I'm simply out of your league.

it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life.

Lets put your genius in perspective shall we. Being a dentist, your a slave to how many hours your willing to work in a given year. No matter how good you are, there will always be a cap to your success. Not hating on anybody on the forum, it's just the honest truth. Sure, you can make a good living but, not to the potential of many people on this forum.

The way you pound on your own chest, claiming your dominance is laughable. Your statements are a slap in the face to your families name & your upbringing.

I really hope we just caught you in a pissed off mood. If so, you can squash this if you can just step off your throne & simply apologize.

If not & your just a *****, shoot out your credentials. I want to know how much better you are then us.

I'm not expecting a reply which is only going to prove my point more.

[RealSanaii]

Because of the similar price, some people 'might' be cross-shopping like the OP. However, GT-R is too hard to get because of the limited supply and dealers still don't know how many allocations they'll get. I would bet that even with the markup of +$10k, GT-R will be hard to get soon.

I want both GT-R and M3 and can't decide. M3 for it's well-balanced, thrill to drive, and it's awesome high-rev engine. GT-R for it's baby-bugatti like performance.

I think both cars are awesome and can't go wrong with either.

BTW, does anyone know the average MPG GT-R gets?

[Krueger///M3]

"BTW, does anyone know the average MPG GT-R gets?"


Road and track got an "our average" of 17.5 mpg in their latest test against the ZO6 and 911TT. All three got similar gas mileage. I'm not sure if that included 0-60 runs or what...

[BMW-M-Mexico]

Road and track got an "our average" in their latest test against the ZO6 and 911TT. All three got similar gas mileage. I'm not sure if that included 0-60 runs or what...

:confused:

[//m3purist]

I doubt anyone here envies you. If anything, people here pity you for utter lack of humbleness, even if you were the smartest than just about any one on this forum. Bold claim, I must say, especially considering you are talking to a sea of engineers. Doctors I've met and have in family (brother) rarely boast about their achievements. I heard it has to deal with confidence. People who know their self-worth rarely have to show it, most of the time it shows itself.

If you really want to split hairs, dental school has never been the epitome of intelligence, much less hard work. I would argue that medical school requires most hours and persistent hard work to finish, while post-graduate studies in science/engineering require most abstract/spatial thinking and conceptualization that are often associated with high intelligence. Granted, intelligence has never been bound by education, but it is safe to say that on average this is pretty reasonable distribution.



Forum has built-in spell checker. If you plan on calling yourself intelligent, at least put an effort to spell it correctly. It's the least you can do.

As a fellow dentist, I will have to speak up on this one. I have always graduated in the top of my class, whether it be college or whatever. I graduated from college Phi Beta Kappa with near perfect grades with two majors, microbiology and biology. I was accepted into several medical schools, and I got into the only dental school that I applied. I am a practicing specialist in the field of dentistry, and I make well into the six figures. I chose dentistry because of the lifestyle. While in school, many of the friends that I made are now physicians. I will tell you that dental school is much more difficult to complete with good grades than medical school (notice I said good grades....I will agree that just doing the minimum amount of work, it is not too difficult to complete). Residency for physicians is certainly difficult and time consuming. They make a considerable living. One of my best friends is a radiologist who makes a bit more than than me and he works considerably less, so I can attest that it is a great field. Honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to medical school and become a radiologist. That's another point altogether.... Personally, I think its a bit childish to point fingers and say that this person is less intelligent because he is this or that. What are we in...the first grade? This is a forum about cars, not finance. Putting a cap on potential income is plain stupid and pointless. I know a dentist that owns 5 practices and pulls in almost 8 figures. He is a shrewd businessman and he isn't alone in that regards in my field. Anyone can make a lot of money. It's just about vision and plain old business sense. I don't care what your profession is or isn't.

[BMW-M-Mexico]

I make well into the 7 digits, but in pesos!!! Hahahaha!!!! Anyway, who cares who makes what!!! Lets get back to cars and what we all share, a passion for BMW!!! Cheers!!!

[Sick Speed]

BMW335icDDS wrote

"...the highest average pay..."

Your GPA is what again?

SS

[gtb75]

I went from M3 to GT-R and then back to the M3... Here was my logic for coming back to the M3:


The sound of the M3's amazing V8 screaming all the way to 8,400rpm - better than a V6 any day in my book!

As much as AWD traction is nice to have, it won't allow you to "have fun" the way RWD will.

And finally, the biggest issue for me... I want a "normal" manual transmission - not DSG, DTC, etc.

Lousy prior experience with Nissan dealers (owned a 2002 Maxima SE before my Subaru).

While I understand the GT-R is undoubtedly the better performing of the two, there's more to driving (for me) than absolute speed... The GT-R is an amazing machine, but it lacks the emotion of the M3 in my book.

[OzStriker]

Wow, BMW335icDDS, you have some serious personal issues.....Sad really...I hope you sort yourself out a bit as you mature...:ashamed0002:

[Voltigeur]

Haha, this is funny. And if you haven't noticed, dentists and doctors have the highest average pay in the USA.

I dispute that: in my view it would be hedge fund managers; it's just that the data are harder to access - but you can see some summary data in "Alpha" mag.

[M3Mikey]

Here I will be the only one with a short post.

M3 Manual Transmission. I have a buddy who races for Nissan and has a GTR and it's not that cool, its all hyped up because of Fast and the Furious. Do you want a sick car with a bunch of cheap plastic inside? Every car company basis their sport car off the M3. It's the icon of performance road cars. And the skyline is ugly as hell.

[Takumi587]

Come on this is old news we all know the stock BMW M3 is not that fast compared to the new kids on the block. AND alright we know the M3 is heavy too we know that. I am tired of people who are in denial trying to say that the M3 is the best car in the world and better than the skyline GTR. well guess what it's not better track wise or street too. It's all about personal preference. Sometimes i wonder how materialistic this country has become on certain things... and to prove that their car is better than all the rest like it defines you in a social class. Just like BMWPRINCE who thought the new M3 lacked power at high speeds. Seriously, people need to stop with saying the m3 is the best and blah blah blah. ANd especially on the POntiac G8! Give everyone a chance open your mind and views shit.

[dipan]

:popcorn:

Can't wait to see who next thinks their penis is bigger :)

[Ken37.73]

Saw my first GTR in the street this week. Gagged - just not my cup of tea.:barf::barf:

[haen]

So my question is the GTR sooo much better than the M3? Or is it a matter of preference? I mean if not actually racing will the M3 be as fun? Will the M3 be more luxurious or better built?

The GT-R is much faster than the M3 but they are very different cars from a dynamic standpoint.

You want to buy one of the fastest track cars so you can do the occasional highway pull? If you never go to the track, the performance advantage of the GT-R is a waist and that's the whole appeal of the car. With the GT-R, you're going to have to live with its super stiff track tuned suspension. I've heard people say that the GT-R has the stiffest suspension they had ever experienced in a road car. The GT-R was designed for the race track first, and everything else second. Of course, if you've been commuting in a S2k for the last 6 years, you're used to lack of creature comforts.

The M3 is far from perfect but I think it makes more sense coming from a S2000. The M3's V8 is just a more grown up version of the S2k's I4. Both will rev to the moon but the M3's much larger and flatter torque curve is going to make regular driving a lot more enjoyable.

To be honest, I think you should get a S5. It's AWD, very fast, more comfortable and better looking than both the M3 and GT-R. Plus, you can now get that car with a DSG transmission. The GT-R and even M3 are too hardcore for what you're looking for. Don't take that as an insult. If you went to the track on occasion, I would say get the M3. If you went to the track all the time, I would recommend the GT-R. For a track free lifestyle, I think the S5 is your car. Of course this my opinion on the matter. I just don't see the point of high performance cars if all you do is drive them in traffic. Go check out the S5 at your Audi dealer. You have nothing to lose. Good luck.

[BMW-videos.com]

Saw 2 white GTRs last night. They look better in person i'd say, although it's badged way too much. It's a big car though, much bigger than I thought. Interior isn't too bad, engine bay looks like it's a nightmare to work on. The spoiler/wing at the rear looks horrid if you ask me, but the exhaust pipes are nice :) We'll see.

[Krueger///M3]

The GT-R is much faster than the M3 but they are very different cars from a dynamic standpoint.

You want to buy one of the fastest track cars so you can do the occasional highway pull? If you never go to the track, the performance advantage of the GT-R is a waist and that's the whole appeal of the car. With the GT-R, you're going to have to live with its super stiff track tuned suspension. I've heard people say that the GT-R has the stiffest suspension they had ever experienced in a road car. The GT-R was designed for the race track first, and everything else second. Of course, if you've been commuting in a S2k for the last 6 years, you're used to lack of creature comforts.

The M3 is far from perfect but I think it makes more sense coming from a S2000. The M3's V8 is just a more grown up version of the S2k's I4. Both will rev to the moon but the M3's much larger and flatter torque curve is going to make regular driving a lot more enjoyable.

To be honest, I think you should get a S5. It's AWD, very fast, more comfortable and better looking than both the M3 and GT-R. Plus, you can now get that car with a DSG transmission. The GT-R and even M3 are too hardcore for what you're looking for. Don't take that as an insult. If you went to the track on occasion, I would say get the M3. If you went to the track all the time, I would recommend the GT-R. For a track free lifestyle, I think the S5 is your car. Of course this my opinion on the matter. I just don't see the point of high performance cars if all you do is drive them in traffic. Go check out the S5 at your Audi dealer. You have nothing to lose. Good luck.

Rai already bought his DCT M3 a month or two ago.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Saw my first GTR in the street this week. Gagged - just not my cup of tea.:barf::barf:

You gagged?

My, how....um, "sensitive".

You the guy just recovering from a long convalescence after seeing his first Aztec?

Bruce

[BlackJetE90]

I can understand the envy I get. I am smarter than just about any one on this forum. My girl is a doctor, I have better cars, and are just plain better than most of the immature idiots on this forum. Hey, its a fact, I accept it probably sucks to be you. Calling me a loser is hilarious, because I'm better than you. Lets just put this nicely in perspective. Comparing me to most of you is like comparing the performance of the GT-R to the M3. I'm simply out of your league.

Flame on, losers. No matter what you've got to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a harder working, more inteligent person who will only continue to succeed and live a great happy life. I've said all I needed to say.

I refuse to believe this guy is for real. No one is really this arrogant.

This has to be someone playing a joke.

[RandyB]

I am smarter than just about any one

Fa il

[torredresen]

Its an easy choice. Its like choosing between a Rolex and Casio at the same price - yes they are both fine time pieces but one is the real deal and the other a cheap copy. A Nissan is just a Nissan even with a stolen name like the GTR.

you read my mind.
Nissan is Japanese... Dont buy Japanese cars. Go for the true german power, eventhou its performance is less than the GTR, dont bother.
People with see you in a BMW, and not a NISSAN :thumsup:
I wouldnt NEVER consider buying a Nissan

[hobsta]

the arguments earlier were pure hilarity.

As for the GTR, it turns heads, if you know what the heck it is. Most people don't even know what the heck that was that just flew by them. And at the end of the day its still a Nismo.

I'll have to agree, the sound of the V-8 is just addicting to the revv. You just want to hear it all day,. and let me tell you. It turns heads like no other.


I would also like to add that if you want the use of a track car with comfort how can you resist the ///M..?

Is the GTR even comfy... to cruise in? or is pure track buckets?

[synclastica_86]

I know there are threads about the GTR v M3. But I am more asking for advice as it relates to me and my situation.

I am looking at the M3 with many options say it's $71K plus tax. I can trim off maybe $3K say a low price ~$68K plus tax. Mainly it's up for me do decide if I should get the M-DCT or the 6MT

I have shopped for the GTR and a few dealers wanted $95K (ish) but I have one that's willing to go +$5K over msrp so that's around $77K (ish).

I know there are people that won't pay over msrp but leave that aside just look at the results $71K M3 (with DCT) v $77K GTR

The GTR includes everything that is optional on the M3 such as navi, active shocks, premium sound, bluetooth, DCT etc..

So I look at the price difference just ~ $7K or $8K more for a GTR.

For which the GTR has more power/speed, AWD, more rare, maybe more street cred (?).

what am I looking for?

I like speed/power and I like to have a car that's somewhat looked at as status but not too much (I mean not like an Aston) although that's not to say I don't like Aston/Ferrari etc.. but I don't want the image of being rich-ie rich so a middle car around $75K +/- is what I am looking for.

I don't race on the street or on the track. I like quick and feeling of power but it's for my own enjoyment. In other words if I get a GTR I'm not going to looking for Z06s or Ford GTs to test it against. If I do go fast it's just for what I am feeling of accleleration and maybe a M3 feels quick (in isolation) I mean it's not like I'll feel bad knowing I don't have a car that can run door to door with a Z06.

I mean when I'm driving, if I want to dust off a car, I like some power just to go. But I don't mean I'm looking for the fastest car in the world. Specifically I have lived with a S2000 for almost 6 years. I would like some more pep than it has but I didn't upgrade to a Z06 for example b/c that aspect is not my main concern.

While I like the awd of the GTR, I think that' my biggest area of what I may like it's not like I am only looking for an awd car. I have other cars to drive in the snow so the awd would mainly be a tool to make the GTR more east to drive (more secure), but I don't think awd is magic like I know if you go past the limits with either car you can go off road.

I don't really push 9/10th any way. I mean even with my S2000, I don't drive as fast as the car is able. So it's just I like brisk back-roads and some quick accelerations but not racing.

Why you may ask don't I save so much and just get a 335i or such? Well I am a car nut. I always want the higher cars but have not got one yet. I am always too cheap. This time I want to go long and I don't plan to buy a lot of fancy cars in my life. I mean perhapse the M3 or GTR would be my best car ever. So I don't want to cheap out time after time.

So my question is the GTR sooo much better than the M3? Or is it a matter of preference? I mean if not actually racing will the M3 be as fun? Will the M3 be more luxurious or better built?

Do people think only one way or can you see being torn trying to decide if the price difference is less than $10K.

thanks.

I was in your exact situation. I got allocation for both cars and the dealers where pushing for a decision. After a lot of research and seeing both cars in person (I went to asia), I wame up with the followings. I compared both cars in the following aspects:


On paper: The GTR wins period. It has got a ton more horsepower to play with. Yes, it has a heavier body, but the sheer umph of the turbo charged engine can hide its extra weight with ease. If its 0-60 times you are looking for, this is your buy. Take out your check book and don't read on.
Trackdays: I know that you don't take your cars to the track, but what people finds in track tests can reflect deeply on how the car will handle during your weekend road slicing episodes. The GTR wins flatout once again. A veryon beating 7:38 lap on the Nurburgring can send the M3 back to its garrage. The raw grunt of that V6 with its blowers pulls the chubby car out of corners withou even trying hard. And there is the never yielding traction of the AWD; it simply removes all the bends in a track. The computer (the most powerful in any production car) will send power to wherever the grip is. If you can drive on your xbox, you can throw the GTR around with the same ease. The M3, on the other hand, requires much more talent to tame. If there is a single let down while cornering with the R35 is its tendency to plow on higher speed turns. But there is nothing a generous step on the throttle can't cure.
On the road: Despite its outstand performance on the track, the GTR is a much more civilized car on the road than the M3. Unlike the M3 which constantly reminds you that you are in a sports car, the GTR soaks up the imperfections on the surface of the roads and lets you relax. Both cars have enough horses packed under the hood to rocket you pass the mini-van on a two lane road through the smallest of gaps. But with that much more power, the GTR gives you that much more confidence. Another one for the GTR.
Trim: The interior of both rides is by no means shabby. It's what you'd expect at this price range. The bimmer comes with the iDrive to give a cleaner interior with less buttons; however, if you are a big fan of hi-tech gizmos, the GTR will quench your thirst more. It is at best a tie in this aspect if the extra gadgets in the Nissan doesn't get your vote.
Bling: If it's exclusivity you are after, think carefully. It only depends on where you are. In the US, the GTR rules, but it's another story in Asia. GTRs are omnipresent. An M3 on the other hand will summon much more attension.


Wow, the GTR trumphs over the M3 in almost all area. So, guess which dealer I wrote my check to? Yes! I got the M3 in white. And no, I'm not insane. I'm simply after different qualtities.

What closed the deal was driver involvement. Like you, I have other cars that I can use everyday or in the snow. The M3 is purely a fun car for me. Compared to the GTR, the steering is much more direct and communicative. The high reving V8 also gets my heart. You need to constantly fiddle with the gears to find where the torque is. And this certainly an equation for euphoria.

Journalists' claims of the GTR driving itself around corners is perhaps an exaggeration, but handling the M3 does require much more attension. The Nissan is like a housewife; you'll have the confidence that she'll do what needs to do to get things done: grocerys, get the kids, and laundary - business as usual. She gets the job don't without you worrying about anything. The Bimmer, on the other hand, is a difficult bitch who would turn around and slap you on the face as soon as she senses any lack of attension from you. It is by no means as crude and raw as a Lotus or Aerial Atom, but if you want performance, you need to earn it. Work hard enough and you will be rewarded with the feeling of in complete control. This feeling is precisely what driving enthusists - me included - wants.

Okay, I've picked the M3; the easy part is over. Now the hard part: be faithful to the 6 speed manual or be tempted by the blistering quick up-shifts od the MDCT.

[BMW-videos.com]

Not a fan of the GTR, but i'd probably take it over the M3. I like modding my car, japanese tuners seem to be cheaper than German.. but it seems the GTR has changed that a little..

[synclastica_86]

Not a fan of the GTR, but i'd probably take it over the M3. I like modding my car, japanese tuners seem to be cheaper than German.. but it seems the GTR has changed that a little..

I'd be careful working with the GTR, the dual clutch gearbox might not the the increased torque. There are already stories about it overheating after a few launches with the stock engine.

[th3Stig]

synclastica, your words should be read and idolized by every other user on this board. You finally gave YOUR review which is what I can actually use to help me pick whether or not the GTR is worth it.:cool:

[Japanese_Racer]

M3 vs. GT-R vs. GT3

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8

[Herms]

go with the m3. it has street cred, great performance (though not GTR perf), is cheaper and will be a better daily driver + free maintenance.

the only reason to get the GTR over the M3 is if you're all about performance, otherwise the M3 is superior and pretty f'in fast in its own right.

[burrito007]

If you want street cred go with the GT-R. You will attract the attention of every boy-racer on the planet. Seriously you can pull into a Dunkin' Donuts and people will FLOCK to your car. When you pull into the exec parking lot, however, people will likely say "nice nissan" and won't know the difference between that or the other nissans/pontiac etc.

If you get the M3 the boy-racers will sometimes know you have a nice car but won't really care since they (for the most part) don't like BMWs. In the exec parking lot, people will be like "nice bimmer." Some will know its an M3 but very few. Most will just think its a nice 3 series and could think its more $$ because it has 2x the exhaust of any other 3 series =)

Personally, going from a 323 to m3(e46), no one has noticed. I get 0 additional attention - save from 1 or 2 crazed boy-racers. My family/friends are like
"oh another bmw." Fiance's opinion is "looks exactly the same inside as ur 323." Co-workers I have driven around have said "where are the features? no nav?" - I pointed down to the 6spd and said "this is the feature" but I couldn't demonstrate since it was raining.

The new M3 will probably get you more looks than the e46 but i think you get the picture.

I would always pick the m3, but its in my blood at this point. If I wasn't so bent on BMW and hadn't been obsessed with the m3 since I got my license I would probably say GT-R.

TLDR Cliff Notes:
M3 - exec car, "i own a bmw," most people won't know its an M or care.
GT-R - Boy-racer exotic with awesome performance, less respect in business world due to it being a "nissan"

[Herms]

M3 vs. GT-R vs. GT3

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8

interesting review. not very flattering to the M3, but the cars it's up against are in a different class. The GTR has supercar performance as does the GT3. The fact that people feel the need to compare the M3 to such cars is a testament to how good it is. also, that guy clearly didn't know how to get the most out of the MT cars. Comparing his "first" tries using launch control on the GTR versus guessing how it should be done on the other cars is bs.

Seems to be a general advantage of the GTR. One of the critcisms I've heard is that the driving experience is less engaging than other cars because the computers do so much of the driving. whether that's true or not, the fact remains that it's probably an easier car to just sit in and drive fast, whereas the M3 and the GT3 especially require more skill and an understanding of how to manipulate the car to get its potential. As he noted, some people like the challenge, but in any case, the point is that someone just randomly driving the cars without any experience doesn't make for a comparison of the cars' true potential, though the point about performance that normal drivers can actually get is well taken (though agian, even normal drivers get used to their cars and can do better than this guy on try 1).