Diff noise?

[GregW / Oregon]

I'm getting a low noise on tight low speed turns. Might be the diff. I noticed on the 1,200 service there was not additive listed for the diff oil. I thought all the MLocks got it. The parts guy said only if they're "noisy".

The noise is hard to describe, but like a low rubbing sound, on both left and right hard turns. You can really hear it in a parking garage with the window down.

Anyone?

[Epacy]

Haven't heard that yet. Although, I hear many noises in the tranny while driving/shifting. Manual states this is normal because of the way it's connected.

[lucid]

I just had my 1200 service done. I didn't get a chance to drive it for long afterwards. Will look out for this in a controlled situation, but I haven't heard it until now. I do get some kind of a "whine" at around 40 mph from the drivetrain (driving straight), but I don't know where it's coming from exactly. I will check to see if it is still there after the break-in. The service guy is saying M drivetrains make all sorts of noises, and that I should drive it for at least another 1000 miles and then see.

Greg, did you go up to the redline after the break-in? If do, how is it? I'll do that today.

[GregW / Oregon]

I just had my 1200 service done. I didn't get a chance to drive it for long afterwards. Will look out for this in a controlled situation, but I haven't heard it until now. I do get some kind of a "whine" at around 40 mph from the drivetrain (driving straight), but I don't know where it's coming from exactly. I will check to see if it is still there after the break-in. The service guy is saying M drivetrains make all sorts of noises, and that I should drive it for at least another 1000 miles and then see.
Look on your itemized invoice and see if they list an additive or conditioner, in addition to the diff fluid, please.

Greg, did you go up to the redline after the break-in? If do, how is it? I'll do that today.
No, been commuting this week. Will have some fun with it this weekend.

[nechronics]

How loud was it? I've experienced a similar sound but it was quite loud - but also I would say a metal rubbing type of sound. It's only happened say three times pulling out a hard left from stand still. Not sure if this is what you're talking about though.

[GregW / Oregon]

How loud was it? I've experienced a similar sound but it was quite loud - but also I would say a metal rubbing type of sound. It's only happened say three times pulling out a hard left from stand still. Not sure if this is what you're talking about though.
Not very loud at all. Only happens on very turns.

[Keto]

I get the same thing on my E46, had the differential oil changed once or twice, it's still there.

[lucid]

Look on your itemized invoice and see if they list an additive or conditioner, in addition to the diff fluid, please.


I looked. The line item is "Diff. Oil Add 15".

[///Mantis]

I'm getting a low noise on tight low speed turns. Might be the diff. I noticed on the 1,200 service there was not additive listed for the diff oil. I thought all the MLocks got it. The parts guy said only if they're "noisy".

The noise is hard to describe, but like a low rubbing sound, on both left and right hard turns. You can really hear it in a parking garage with the window down.

Anyone?

can you elaborate on when you get it? i get noise at low speeds when i turn steering wheel. the noise is kinda similar to what you tried to describe. let me know im interested to know more please

[GregW / Oregon]

can you elaborate on when you get it? i get noise at low speeds when i turn steering wheel. the noise is kinda similar to what you tried to describe. let me know im interested to know more please
It's kind of a groaning or rubbing noise on sharp corners. Circling through a parking garage you can really hear it because of the reflectivity of the structure. Happens both turning directions. I don't think it was there when I first got the car.

[///Mantis]

It's kind of a groaning or rubbing noise on sharp corners. Circling through a parking garage you can really hear it because of the reflectivity of the structure. Happens both turning directions. I don't think it was there when I first got the car.

i noticed it once first day, then a couple of times during the 1200, then again the day i got car back from service. it's not consistent, i dont hear it all the time. heard it like 4 times so far.

i think we're talking about the same thing

[///Mantis]

i heard this this morning.. a few times. any updates? u gonna take it in for that?

[GregW / Oregon]

i heard this this morning.. a few times. any updates? u gonna take it in for that?
My SA says he is positive the right fluid was used, and it now comes with the LSD additive in it. He said there is not reason for concern, that it's just the clutches working, but the can put more additive in if it's bothersome. I think I'll wait until next time I have it in for something else, unless it gets worse.

[///Mantis]

My SA says he is positive the right fluid was used, and it now comes with the LSD additive in it. He said there is not reason for concern, that it's just the clutches working, but the can put more additive in if it's bothersome. I think I'll wait until next time I have it in for something else, unless it gets worse.

yah coz i heard that on factory oil. he's probably right about lsd differential clutches noises... i hear the same noise in after market lsd's too.... :mad0260:

[GregW / Oregon]

yah coz i heard that on factory oil. he's probably right about lsd differential clutches noises... i hear the same noise in after market lsd's too.... :mad0260:
My E46 diff never made these noises, but I heard about a lot that did.

[///Mantis]

differential usually needs 3500 to break in... after market ones do anyway

[argonboy]

I'm getting a low noise on tight low speed turns. Might be the diff. I noticed on the 1,200 service there was not additive listed for the diff oil. I thought all the MLocks got it. The parts guy said only if they're "noisy".

The noise is hard to describe, but like a low rubbing sound, on both left and right hard turns. You can really hear it in a parking garage with the window down.

Anyone?

Hey, I have the same noise sometimes, and at first I noticed it after pulling hard, downshifting before a turn. I figured it was the diff still being locked. Then I realized it's not only after pulling hard, so that wouldn't make sense. I took it in and I wasn't able to recreate that when the tech was in the car. I thought it was when the wheel was locked left, but it's when the steering wheel is 80 or 90 degrees left.

I did have the diff oil changed. I have 6500km on the car, first heard it around 2500km.

[GregW / Oregon]

Hey, I have the same noise sometimes, and at first I noticed it after pulling hard, downshifting before a turn. I figured it was the diff still being locked. Then I realized it's not only after pulling hard, so that wouldn't make sense. I took it in and I wasn't able to recreate that when the tech was in the car. I thought it was when the wheel was locked left, but it's when the steering wheel is 80 or 90 degrees left.

I did have the diff oil changed. I have 6500km on the car, first heard it around 2500km.
Mine is only noticeable at low speeds; occurs when driving slowly, not hard.

[fullrev]

after putting new oil in it i would drive it in a tight circle about 10-15 times each way

[Eidref.ph]

I'm getting a low noise on tight low speed turns. Might be the diff. I noticed on the 1,200 service there was not additive listed for the diff oil. I thought all the MLocks got it. The parts guy said only if they're "noisy".

The noise is hard to describe, but like a low rubbing sound, on both left and right hard turns. You can really hear it in a parking garage with the window down.

Anyone?

Let me clear this... what do you usually do when sudden turning? stepping the clutch pedal then turn your steering wheel? i think the diff has nothing to do with the unusuall sound.. commonly the problems with the sounds when turning are the bushing(a rubber elements that keeps to do metal to metal contact that usually do unusuall sounds from the suspension system) and other suspension components..

check your stabilizer link bushing if it is already worned-out.. or maybe the thing to do is go to the service center and tell them to check your suspension system in front or your steering components ( control arms , stabilizer links , ball joints)

and also tell them that you primally suspected your balljoints and bushing...

[quixs1lver]

A grinding noise may be heard coming from the differential during slow cornering.

This noise is best heard during tight cornering situations; for example, while parallel parking, driving in a tight circle, etc


cause

When the rear wheel speed differential varies during tight cornering, a slip stick effect is created on the lining and steel discs incorporated in the differential locking clutch, causing the grinding noise.

This noise typically goes away as the locking clutch discs in the differential are broken in.

The break-in time varies depending on driving habits; for example, tighter cornering (working the locking clutch) means that it takes less time to break in the locking clutch discs.

IF THE TECH CAN VERIFY THAT THIS IS THE NOISE
differential oil should be replaced with:
83 22 2 282 583
Special differential oil kit

e46 differential = e92 differential with bigger cooling fins. there has been a small percentage of people who have had concerns on slow tight cornering such as parallel parking a groaning type sound is heard from the rear differential. Since this is a same issue known with e46 m3, e60 m5, e63/54 m6 and e90/92 m3. a 'special' differential fluid is used

[GregW / Oregon]

A grinding noise may be heard coming from the differential during slow cornering. This noise is best heard during tight cornering situations; for example, while parallel parking, driving in a tight circle, etc

cause:

When the rear wheel speed differential varies during tight cornering, a slip stick effect is created on the lining and steel discs incorporated in the differential locking clutch, causing the grinding noise.

This noise typically goes away as the locking clutch discs in the differential are broken in.

The break-in time varies depending on driving habits; for example, tighter cornering (working the locking clutch) means that it takes less time to break in the locking clutch discs.

IF THE TECH CAN VERIFY THAT THIS IS THE NOISE differential oil should be replaced with: 83 22 2 282 583 Special differential oil kit

e46 differential = e92 differential with bigger cooling fins. there has been a small percentage of people who have had concerns on slow tight cornering such as parallel parking a groaning type sound is heard from the rear differential. Since this is a same issue known with e46 m3, e60 m5, e63/54 m6 and e90/92 m3. a 'special' differential fluid is used
"In principle, the final drive is assembled in the same way as in the E6x M5/M6. It is, however, a separate new development. The bevel gear shaft bearing is a frictionoptimized, double-row, angular-contact ball bearing. The gear ratio between the bevel gear and the crown gear has been adapted to the engine speed and gearbox ratio of the M3.

The final drive ratio is 3.85:1. The 215 gear set (crown wheel diameter 215 mm) has been temperature and noise optimized. A friction-reduced gearing is used. The housing of the final drive has been adapted to accommodate the double-row angular-contact ball bearing. The flanges for the propeller and drive shafts are the same as those used on the E6x M5 and M6." BMW Aftersales Training

Thanks for the info on the diff oil. I need to take mine in, as it continues to be noisier than I like. As I said in the OP, it didn't start until the oil was changed at first service.

[2FED]

Is this nosie is similar to nosie what produce chaning from N to R or from R to 1?
More, I hear two "clicks" then shifting from N to 2d gear (mean, using D with 1st mode it shifts to 2d gear instantly).
The same noise I hear sometimes from downshifting from 3d to 2d, or during moderate (not quite) breaking in D-mode then it downshifts to 2d and to 1st gear...

This sounds worry me very much, I don't know if it is normal or this can be solved?
I have askd for my BMW service, but they don't have any good expirencie on new M3...

[GregW / Oregon]

Is this nosie is similar to nosie what produce chaning from N to R or from R to 1?
More, I hear two "clicks" then shifting from N to 2d gear (mean, using D with 1st mode it shifts to 2d gear instantly).
The same noise I hear sometimes from downshifting from 3d to 2d, or during moderate (not quite) breaking in D-mode then it downshifts to 2d and to 1st gear...

This sounds worry me very much, I don't know if it is normal or this can be solved?
I have askd for my BMW service, but they don't have any good expirencie on new M3...
The transmission and diff are very much like the previous model's, or those of the M5/6, so drivetrain noise analysis should not be new. No, the sound is totally different, like the rear wheel is rubbing on the wheelwell liner in a tight turn.

[GregW / Oregon]

I'm getting a low noise on tight low speed turns. Might be the diff. I noticed on the 1,200 service there was not additive listed for the diff oil. I thought all the MLocks got it. The parts guy said only if they're "noisy".

The noise is hard to describe, but like a low rubbing sound, on both left and right hard turns. You can really hear it in a parking garage with the window down.

Update: Dealer replaced the diff fluid today with the one in quixs1lver's post. From the invoice:

"0053267 repl diff oil with special oil
5029 WBMW
3 83-22-2-282-583 final-drive gear oil (N/C)

Verified customer complaint per SIB 33 01 02. Replaced diff fluid and performed break in treatment. See attached bulletin. Break in procedure may take up to 600 miles."

I drove around my club's parking garage with tight corners and so far no noise.

6/30 update - noise is definitely gone

[MDCTFTW]

It needs to be broken in again? Strange.

[GregW / Oregon]

It needs to be broken in again? Strange.
No, it's not a break-in, per se. It's just to get the fluid evenly coating everything.

[MDCTFTW]

No, it's not a break-in, per se. It's just to get the fluid evenly coating everything.

Ah I see. Well it's good the issue is fixed. Congrats.

[Radiation Joe]

Greg,
If you can live with the noise, I would leave it alone. Your diff is working the way it is supposed to. They can add more LS friction modifier, but then you'd have less of the effect the the LSD is there for, mainly less torque lock up.

If your diff doesn't make any noise under any circumstances, then you have no way of knowing (other than taking it through an auto-x) if the diff is doing it's job. I'd take that little groaning noise as a sign your car is healthy.

[GregW / Oregon]

Greg,
If you can live with the noise, I would leave it alone. Your diff is working the way it is supposed to. They can add more LS friction modifier, but then you'd have less of the effect the the LSD is there for, mainly less torque lock up.

If your diff doesn't make any noise under any circumstances, then you have no way of knowing (other than taking it through an auto-x) if the diff is doing it's job. I'd take that little groaning noise as a sign your car is healthy.
What you say may be true, but do you have any facts to support that? I don't think the modifiers just make the fluid slipperier, but I could be wrong.

[Radiation Joe]

What you say may be true, but do you have any facts to support that? I don't think the modifiers just make the fluid slipperier, but I could be wrong.

"Compatible with petroluem or synthetic gear oils, Red Line Limited Slip Friction Modifier & Break-in Additive will significantly reduce the friction break-in of differentials, reducing break-in temps for as much as 50 degrees F. Limited slip or positraction units will often chatter without use of this product or a gear oil with a similar modifier, so add only enough to eliminate the chatter and avoid making the plates or clutches too slippery."
.
.

[ericld]

Okay - So I have the same issue on my E92 Coupe. It's a "cornering at low speed" situation and I get a rubbing groan sound - sort of a humming. I hear it daily when I turn into a parking place.

I knew it was the diff when I first heard it, but for a few minutes I thought it might be a wheel rubbing in its wheel well. I also wondered if some lug nuts were loose causing a rear wheel to rock up against the interior well wall.

As a group, what have we decided? Let it be or get more diff fluid in the unit?

I have 2700 miles, but it doesn't sound like something that will go away, more likely something that will increase over time. Friction increases, it doesn't go away over time.

[GregW / Oregon]

Okay - So I have the same issue on my E92 Coupe. It's a "cornering at low speed" situation and I get a rubbing groan sound - sort of a humming. I hear it daily when I turn into a parking place.

I knew it was the diff when I first heard it, but for a few minutes I thought it might be a wheel rubbing in its wheel well. I also wondered if some lug nuts were loose causing a rear wheel to rock up against the interior well wall.

As a group, what have we decided? Let it be or get more diff fluid in the unit?

I have 2700 miles, but it doesn't sound like something that will go away, more likely something that will increase over time. Friction increases, it doesn't go away over time.
I had exactly the same as you describe. Per my post #25 above, the different fluid solved the noise immediately and completely, and I notice no difference in performance. I would recommend it.

[Tosh]

Same thing going on in my e90 sedan right now too. It's odd. I never heard it when I first got the car--only now after break-in. I have almost 3k miles.

OT, my mic in my Bluetooth went out today. They told me to erase the phone from the nav and take out the phones batteries for a few minutes. I did so, relinked it and now it works perfectly. Also, sometimes when I switch DCT off or to S5/6 my treble speakers go off intermittentl--which is strange as well. Don't know why that would be.

Back to original topic--basically, the turn noise is not bad as long as you can stand it? Is that the consensus?

[GT3 Tim]

I have not had the noise, but have previously owned cars with NOISEY diffs (the GT3 for one). This is a "normal" noise. Most diffs with higher lock-ups will make some noise, its the nature of the beast.

I am with Radiation Joe on this one. I would not add a modifier to reduce the noise. IMHO, you are retarding the effectiveness of the clutches....and thus, the overall performance thereof. Personally, I would live with the noise.

Now, for people that are basically city drivers that do not track, etc., it is really a moot point as you wont notice a reduction in lock-up in most cases. So, if that is the case, and you dont like the noise, go ahead and add it. Either way, the diff will still be under warranty.

[kosh]

Be cereful guys. I have 21 500km on my M3 and today I changed diff

Sorry for my english

[moog55]

I now have the diff noise as well. it's been there for about two weeks and now is annoying the shit out of me. i go in and out of a 5-level parking garage every day and so it's very easy for me to hear. same exact rubbing/grinding sound.

now that i've read this thread, i feel confident that greg has identified the problem and has a fix that seems to work for him. however, there are others here that are saying to leave it alone and that the diff sound is normal. what should i do here?

i have 2800 miles on my car now and also did not experience this prior to my 1200 mile service.

[GregW / Oregon]

I now have the diff noise as well. it's been there for about two weeks and now is annoying the shit out of me. i go in and out of a 5-level parking garage every day and so it's very easy for me to hear. same exact rubbing/grinding sound.

now that i've read this thread, i feel confident that greg has identified the problem and has a fix that seems to work for him. however, there are others here that are saying to leave it alone and that the diff sound is normal. what should i do here?

i have 2800 miles on my car now and also did not experience this prior to my 1200 mile service.
If it bugs you, get it fixed. It will "cheapen" the car in your mind (and others). I seriously doubt there is much difference in limited slip action by going to the quieter fluid.

[moog55]

greg, i'm not sure what you mean when you say changing the diff fluid "cheapen" the car. i just don't want to make the fix if it has a potential to damage the car in anyway.

in any event, it does bother me and so i'm going to have this fixed. i printed out the thread and will bring it to my dealership tomorrow. :)

[GregW / Oregon]

greg, i'm not sure what you mean when you say changing the diff fluid "cheapen" the car. i just don't want to make the fix if it has a potential to damage the car in anyway.

in any event, it does bother me and so i'm going to have this fixed. i printed out the thread and will bring it to my dealership tomorrow. :)
By cheapen, I mean in your mind the quality of the car is diminished because it is making noises. The diff fluid change I had done is an approved BMW TSB procedure and will now way cause any harm.

[moog55]

By cheapen, I mean in your mind the quality of the car is diminished because it is making noises. The diff fluid change I had done is an approved BMW TSB procedure and will now way cause any harm.

ahhh, i see. gotcha. in that case, i am leaving work right now to go talk to my service advisor. i definitely do NOT like the sound and want it to stop.

thanks.

[TTG]

ahhh, i see. gotcha. in that case, i am leaving work right now to go talk to my service advisor. i definitely do NOT like the sound and want it to stop.

thanks.

Please keep us updated and let me know which dealership you are taking your car to.

[Mel Red]

Greg, I got the same noise, right after the dealership changed the diff fluids.. Good to hear it's not just my car. I almost lost my mind, I've only had my M3 since the 4th July and now it's falling apart, WTH! The Service Manager told me that he received a new service bulletin instructing him to use a special type of diff fluid and the noise should stop within 300 to 400 miles after the change. I'll keep you posted!

[GregW / Oregon]

Greg, I got the same noise, right after the dealership changed the diff fluids.. Good to hear it's not just my car. I almost lost my mind, I've only had my M3 since the 4th July and now it's falling apart, WTH! The Service Manager told me that he received a new service bulletin instructing him to use a special type of diff fluid and the noise should stop within 300 to 400 miles after the change. I'll keep you posted!
As I noted, my noise stopped immediately after the change to the updated fluid.

[Zervos4]

AHHHHH...welcome to my world...since I got my M in April, it's been in the shop 4 times now, around a month and a half accumulated service, my diff keeps backing out the bolts holding it up, and rubbing (as you stated) and clicking/clunking/thumping and eventually breaking off the head of the bolt...good luck, hope you don't have the same problem that I do...have your bimmer shop re-torque your diff bolts and see if they are loose at all...good luck

[Charminar]

As I noted, my noise stopped immediately after the change to the updated fluid.

I have had the same issue. The service they performed that was identical to GregW's service. However, my noice did not stop immediately. I am still noicticing a bit of noice when I turn sharply. I am going to monitor this for another 500 miles, and see if it stops.

I don't what are the options if it doesn't :(

[achenator]

The m5 I drove for the M school had the noise when making a sharp u-turn. Sounded like a fender rubbing.

[watrob]

All e46 M3's & e9x M3's have this noise, the additive is called FMBooster fixes the problem and is added when the diff oil is first serviced. Half smart dealers should know this!

[96OCTNE]

Does anyone know the Service Bulletin # or have a link to it so I can take it to the BMW dealer? THX.

[watrob]

Does anyone know the Service Bulletin # or have a link to it so I can take it to the BMW dealer? THX.

Your dealer should know, its the same additive as the e46 M3's got put in there diffs!

[GregW / Oregon]

Does anyone know the Service Bulletin # or have a link to it so I can take it to the BMW dealer? THX.
SIB #63-14-07.

[rldzhao]

Just found this thread. Have the same noise. Thought something was broken again. Thanks GregW. Great work as always :)

[rldzhao]

Also I think this thread should be a STICKY as it affects quite a few people.