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      02-03-2012, 10:35 AM   #23
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lol @ people overcomplicating this stuff...

Calories in < calories out = weight loss

Next?
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      02-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
lol @ people overcomplicating this stuff...

Calories in < calories out = weight loss

Next?
my question was not weight loss tho.!




after all that unrelated posts, here is my question again:

How to prevent your muscle mass while burning fat (losing weight)??
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      02-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by koxal View Post
my question was not weight loss tho.!




after all that unrelated posts, here is my question again:

How to prevent your muscle mass while burning fat (losing weight)??
You already said though that you know it's not completely possible to prevent all muscle loss while burning fat. You'll lose both, but you can minimize muscle loss while burning fat, and people have already answered that.

And a lot of people gave you advice that you already acknowledged and a lot of links posted in here are good. There's also some pretty bad advice in here... I can guarantee that your workouts will suffer if you go no carb/low carb. Your theory about muscles being weaker meaning you're losing muscle is not true necessarily either... You could be weaker because you're not eating enough to sustain the proper energy levels, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're suffering from muscle loss. Please note, larger muscle mass isn't always associated with greater strength.

What else are you looking for, because I think you've already got your answer...?

And please, to some of the people posting their "e-creds" in here. No one cares if you used to be a D1 athlete. Some of the D1 athletes I've known are some of the biggest fatasses I've ever seen in my life now, in the real world after college. You're on the internet, and you're anonymous. Your supposed credentials mean nothing. People telling you that "I don't believe anything I read on the internet" and all that garbage, but then they post THEIR opinions and expect you to believe them... Please...

OP, you can take what I say with a grain of salt, but if you want to lose fat and minimize muscle loss, continue to lift, work in a bit more cardio, start a caloric deficit, but do it in steps. You need to find the right deficit, not just hack off 1000 calories right away, because you're workouts will likely crash hard and you'll feel like garbage. Find the amount of calories (less than what you eat now) it takes for you to continue working out and working hard while still being able to lift and push as hard (or as close to it) as you were while you were bulking, and chances are you'll lose minimal muscle while trying to cut. Your workouts will likely need to be refined, which is why Quick6EF was asking what your training regimen will be or is currently... But that doesn't change the fact that you will need to push hard, which means you need to eat, and you need to eat carbs too.
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      02-03-2012, 11:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfinz View Post
My point about the body being able to absorb more than 60grms (that was a guess btw) or more of protein in one sitting is not a myth. I'm not a biologist, but I am willing to put a lot of money on the line and say that there is a point where the body "has enough" of protein, or any nutrient for that matter, before it will stop absorbing it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776143
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096

Body absorbed far more than 60 grams of protein.

Okay - how much money do I win?
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      02-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by koxal View Post
I know you cant burn fat while building muscle but my question is how to prevent your muscle mass while buring fat...

I work out 4 times a week and so far i put on 20lbs along some fat


Right now I am 177lbs and 6 ft with %15 BF right now. I guess, not too bad at all.

I need to gain another 3lbs and then start to burn fat to a level around %11
In that case I will need to lose around 7lbs of fat and some muscle abvously.

I read a lot of articles regarding to this manner. Hovewer many of them is explaning more about lowering BF from %20 to %10

Just wanted to check with your own experiences, what u guys are doing for fat loss after building muscle and how u do it?

Thanks
The process of going to 20% BF to 15 is the same as 10 to 15 or 16 to 13. You eat less than you need, keep protein high, lift heavy shit at least 2-3 times a week, and add in a bit of walking.

Done.
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      02-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #28
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I don't make it up, educate yourself.

http://examine.com/faq/how-much-prot...e-sitting.html

check the sources
Dude.....I have two undergraduate degrees and a Masters. I guess you believe everything you read. "I read a lot" is probably one of your best quotes. Do you apply anything or sit back and read all day ?

Enough ...I said it before and agree with others ... Good Day
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      02-03-2012, 12:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Dude.....I have two undergraduate degrees and a Masters. I guess you believe everything you read. "I read a lot" is probably one of your best quotes. Do you apply anything or sit back and read all day ?

Enough ...I said it before and agree with others ... Good Day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776143
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096

I assume your education background appreciates what pubmed is.
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      02-03-2012, 12:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloX2 View Post
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19776143
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096

I assume your education background appreciates what pubmed is.
Nope...not involved with this debate. My education is CS, Engineering, & a Masters in Business. Just criticizing Quick6EF for telling another member they are full of shit b/c he reads a lot. Why not hold your breath and dont say anything unless you have something nice to contribute?

Just remember 'Correlation is not causal', so data you read may not be true but there to support the scientist handling the study. Do you believe in Global Warming ?
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      02-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Nope...not involved with this debate. My education is CS, Engineering, & a Masters in Business. Just criticizing Quick6EF for telling another member they are full of shit b/c he reads a lot. Why not hold your breath and dont say anything unless you have something nice to contribute?

Just remember 'Correlation is not causal', so data you read may not be true but there to support the scientist handling the study. Do you believe in Global Warming ?
I like your head-in-the-sand routine.

I'm pretty sure Quick's motivation was that there are a ton of myths out there, and if you actually read into it, you can ingest > 60g of protein.

No one said correlation is causation. They studied the utilization of amino acids in the digestive track X hours after ingestion of protein, and compared a group that ate throughout the day vs a group that are in a 2-4 hour span. The p value came to a statistical significant that utilization was equal, which leads to the obvious conclusion that the human-body and digestive tract is not stupid and can hold more than 30-60g of protein (which if you actually help in your hand, is less than a fist-size).

As for global warming - the Koch bothers' funded research into proving that ClimateGate was a fraud ... only for the results to come back that there was no fraud.

But sure, somehow translate the ingestion of protein (obviously measurable with strict starts and ends) to climate change (lacking historical data, includes outside stimuli, etc).

I guess all your education did not teach you critical thinking. Or what an analogy is.
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      02-03-2012, 12:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koxal View Post
I know you cant burn fat while building muscle.....
Others may have already voiced a similar opinion so my apologies if I'm being redundant here (or missing the point).

But I'm not sure I can agree with your comment. I recently accepted I needed to lose ~15 lbs, so about a month ago I started a 1700 calorie a day eating regimen (I despise the word "diet") and began lifting the old dumbells again and doing 20-40 minutes on the treadmill each day.

I've definitely burned off quiet a bit of 'extra meat' around the midsection as well as built up muscles in my arms and legs. (not just muscle tone)

If you mean you can't burn fat and build muscle thru supplements alone, I agree. But if you include cardio and/or weights in addition to lowering caloric intake, which is the best approach IMHO, you can absolutely build muscle at the same time you're burning fat. I've been doing it off and on for longer than I'd like to admit.

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      02-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SoloX2 View Post
No one said correlation is causation. They studied the utilization of amino acids in the digestive track X hours after ingestion of protein, and compared a group that ate throughout the day vs a group that are in a 2-4 hour span. The p value came to a statistical significant that utilization was equal, which leads to the obvious conclusion that the human-body and digestive tract is not stupid and can hold more than 30-60g of protein (which if you actually help in your hand, is less than a fist-size).

As for global warming - the Koch bothers' funded research into proving that ClimateGate was a fraud ... only for the results to come back that there was no fraud.

I guess all your education did not teach you critical thinking. Or what an analogy is.
Ummm...the "Correlation is not causal" statement is referring to the fact that you cannot believe everything you read. I dont care about the link you forwarded.

So, do you believe CO2 is the catalyst for increasing temperatures ?
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      02-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #34
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http://brianhills.blogspot.com/2012/...-detailed.html

His LBM actually went down.
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      02-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Ummm...the "Correlation is not causal" statement is referring to the fact that you cannot believe everything you read. I dont care about the link you forwarded.
It's science. The same source for the (incorrectly) cited 30g per meal maximum.

But sure. I applaud your ability to be shown contrarian proof, but your insistence on not even looking at it. It takes a real man to hold steadfast to his views, even when wrong.

Kudos, you are a shining example of willful ignorance. I look forward to seeing what other evidence you dismiss because they don't jive with your emotions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
So, do you believe CO2 is the catalyst for increasing temperatures ?
Me thinks you are obsessing far too much about climate change when the discussion was on protein consumption in the context of LBM gain and fat loss.
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      02-03-2012, 01:01 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by SoloX2 View Post
It's science. The same source for the (incorrectly) cited 30g per meal maximum.
But sure. I applaud your ability to be shown contrarian proof, but your insistence on not even looking at it. It takes a real man to hold steadfast to his views, even when wrong.
Kudos, you are a shining example of willful ignorance. I look forward to seeing what other evidence you dismiss because they don't jive with your emotions.
Me thinks you are obsessing far too much about climate change when the discussion was on protein consumption in the context of LBM gain and fat loss.
Your answer about Global Warming will tell me how much you understand about science. You brought it up?! You and Quick6EF are quick to question one's intelligence and are very condescending. Why must you attempt to downgrade one's intelligence when trying to prove a point ?
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      02-03-2012, 01:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Your answer about Global Warming will tell me how much you understand about science. You brought it up?! You and Quick6EF are quick to question one's intelligence and are very condescending. Why must you attempt to downgrade one's intelligence when trying to prove a point ?
1. You mentioned global warming. How are you so deluded to think I mentioned it first?
2. You clearly stated you won't read the scientific papers.
3. You have provided zero proof on anything you said. I can safely conclude it comes from the emotional feelings welling up inside you.

Me being a condescending ass has no relevance on the quality of information. You are doing the typical attack-the-messenger and not attack-the-facts (because you can't - they are facts).

So really, while you wallow in ignorance and snarky comments, please don't try to drag me into this.
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      02-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ruscoupe View Post
Others may have already voiced a similar opinion so my apologies if I'm being redundant here (or missing the point).

But I'm not sure I can agree with your comment. I recently accepted I needed to lose ~15 lbs, so about a month ago I started a 1700 calorie a day eating regimen (I despise the word "diet") and began lifting the old dumbells again and doing 20-40 minutes on the treadmill each day.

I've definitely burned off quiet a bit of 'extra meat' around the midsection as well as built up muscles in my arms and legs. (not just muscle tone)

If you mean you can't burn fat and build muscle thru supplements alone, I agree. But if you include cardio and/or weights in addition to lowering caloric intake, which is the best approach IMHO, you can absolutely build muscle at the same time you're burning fat. I've been doing it off and on for longer than I'd like to admit.

Rus
Without a lot of tests, there's no way to tell what you did specifically.

The mirror doesn't tell the whole truth in most cases... And it's tough to tell just by looks. You need to really measure your body fat percentages through calipers or tape or water displacement or whatever your methods.

It's known that you usually add some body fat while bulking, and you usually lose some LBM while cutting. You can think all you want, but that's the bottom line. With a caloric deficit, it's impossible to gain weight, whether it's fat or muscle. With a surplus, you're going to gain both muscle and fat, no matter what you do. If you use the surplus correctly (through training), you'll gain more muscle than fat though.

And Solo, ignore the troll... He was a D1 athlete, so he knows everything
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      02-03-2012, 01:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloX2 View Post
1. You mentioned global warming. How are you so deluded to think I mentioned it first? My bad...you are right about that...trying to work while responding to your nonsense
2. You clearly stated you won't read the scientific papers.
3. You have provided zero proof on anything you said. I can safely conclude it comes from the emotional feelings welling up inside you.

Me being a condescending ass has no relevance on the quality of information. You are doing the typical attack-the-messenger and not attack-the-facts (because you can't - they are facts).

So really, while you wallow in ignorance and snarky comments, please don't try to drag me into this.
I cant believe I fell for this...you are Quick6EF under a new user name. how many posts ? You have the same vocabulary and condescending tone. I dont have any proof b/c I'm not in this debate. I simply jumped in because you said not to believe what another member said as you have done numerous times. Just review all your posts and responses.

Sorry OP... Here is my response; Quick 6EF will say "Dont listen to him", but I have actual experience.

I do watch total calorie intake and work on muscle growth and cardio at the same time. I've gone from around 225lb to 200 lbs. I am a former D1 football player and have learned how to increase muscle mass while losing weight or maintaining...from some of the best trainers at Michigan, California, and DePapes. My % body fat is now around 12% down from over 20%. Keep in mind I am over 40 so thats pretty good. I had by body fat measured at 6% while in college (water tank) so my current %body fat is my best guess.

Cardio - everyday (bike 25 min), run 2x per week, foot drills 2x / week:
The best way to maintain mass at the same time is to fatigue your muscles but different areas each day. I do a 4 day split. Day 1: chest and tri's. Day 2: back and bi's 3: Shoulders 4: legs 5: day off.
note - each set is pyramid style with a peak at 80% of max wt. I also take at least one week off of weights each quarter.

Good luck and I apologize again. I'm a do'er not an internet Gym rat.
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      02-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #40
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And Solo, ignore the troll... He was a D1 athlete, so he knows everything
Sorry, but I dont know everything...just dont think people should express their view if they have nothing good to say.

thx for letting me know your true colors.
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      02-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Without a lot of tests, there's no way to tell what you did specifically.
Do what? There's an absolute way to tell, my f'ing pants fit.

Seriously, you guys sound like women. You're overthinking all this. It really isn't that difficult.

But certainlly, do what you like and I'll do (and suggest) what I know works, scientific data be damned.

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      02-03-2012, 01:50 PM   #42
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With a caloric deficit, it's impossible to gain weight, whether it's fat or muscle. With a surplus, you're going to gain both muscle and fat, no matter what you do. If you use the surplus correctly (through training), you'll gain more muscle than fat though.
%100 true unless you have an unique genetics or use supplements etc..
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      02-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
I cant believe I fell for this...you are Quick6EF under a new user name. how many posts ? You have the same vocabulary and condescending tone. I dont have any proof b/c I'm not in this debate. I simply jumped in because you said not to believe what another member said as you have done numerous times. Just review all your posts and responses.

Sorry OP... Here is my response; Quick 6EF will say "Dont listen to him", but I have actual experience.

I do watch total calorie intake and work on muscle growth and cardio at the same time. I've gone from around 225lb to 200 lbs. I am a former D1 football player and have learned how to increase muscle mass while losing weight or maintaining...from some of the best trainers at Michigan, California, and DePapes. My % body fat is now around 12% down from over 20%. Keep in mind I am over 40 so thats pretty good. I had by body fat measured at 6% while in college (water tank) so my current %body fat is my best guess.

Cardio - everyday (bike 25 min), run 2x per week, foot drills 2x / week:
The best way to maintain mass at the same time is to fatigue your muscles but different areas each day. I do a 4 day split. Day 1: chest and tri's. Day 2: back and bi's 3: Shoulders 4: legs 5: day off.
note - each set is pyramid style with a peak at 80% of max wt. I also take at least one week off of weights each quarter.

Good luck and I apologize again. I'm a do'er not an internet Gym rat.


All I read was the first line; I'll take that as a compliment. SoloX2 is a smart dude! Glad we finally got some brains in this thread.

Ken, for being over 40 you sure have a lot to learn. You've been on this planet 16+ years more than I have, but yet you can't back up your claims with facts.



OP what you can conclude from all of this is that you need to keep a close eye on your caloric intake. Depending on your activity level, reduce your daily intake by ~350-500 and keep an eye on the scale. If you prefer the mirror, that works too.
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      02-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Sorry, but I dont know everything...just dont think people should express their view if they have nothing good to say.

thx for letting me know your true colors.
You think because you were a D1 athlete that makes you a nutrition and physiology expert?

Maybe you can help me diagnose this mole I have on my arm too...

And I see what you're saying. Since people don't agree with YOU and your opinions (which is all you've posted here), then they have nothing good to say in your eyes and aren't even entitled to post? Makes a lot of sense... The telltale signs of a basement dweller... "You don't agree with me, therefore you're irrelevant..."

EDIT: 25 minutes of biking, that's a cardio workout for you? Coming from a D1 athlete, I expected a lot more. Oh, yea I was a recruited D1 athlete too. I was also all-state in high school for swimming. I've done quite a bit of cardio in my lifetime. I was a distance swimmer. I swam more than 10 miles a day, every day, starting when I was 10, until I was 22. I'm a do'er, as you say... If we're measuring e-peens here, that is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruscoupe View Post
Do what? There's an absolute way to tell, my f'ing pants fit.

Seriously, you guys sound like women. You're overthinking all this. It really isn't that difficult.

But certainlly, do what you like and I'll do (and suggest) what I know works, scientific data be damned.

Rus
Your pants fitting has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I am talking about the fact that you think you can lose weight (i.e. be in a caloric deficit which is the only way to lose weight) and still gain muscle mass (which is the exact opposite, because you're gaining).

If you don't believe in science, then that's a whole different issue... Maybe you're a magician? But a caloric deficit does not equal muscle gains. Never has, and never will.
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