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      11-07-2012, 11:28 PM   #1
Curt2000
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The Direction of the Country

THE LAW

A great read and a must for any young person...written by a Frenchman in the 1800's pondering how democracy as envisioned by the founding fathers of America can be perverted into socialism, communism and eventually collapse.

Cliff Notes:

The law was set in place by our founding fathers to protect us from foreign influence (Military), From each other (civil authorities) and to facilitate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (state governments to promote free trade, roads/bridges/infrastructure to create better quality of life etc...)

Taxes are assessed from citizens to fund these three principles because everyone benefits from them.

When the government begins to collect taxes and use them for things that only isolated groups benefit from then the act is by definition 'plundering'

When a government begins to plunder its very hard to regress from its ways because the people who are benefiting are removed from the responsibility to ever take care of it for themselves again.

A couple scenarios that are discussed:
Public Education: "my child is falling behind, the school/teachers are to blame"

Welfare: "I can work 30hrs a week in retail/services or collect govt welfare and not work and enjoy the same quality of life"

The responsibility that is being relieved:
It's the parents responsibility to work with/motivate/ensure their children are properly educated but the govt offers the lowest common denominator which some people are willing to accept.

It's the individual's responsibility to work and provide for themselves and their family but the govt offers a path of least resistance to fulfilling that responsibility if citizens are willing to accept a lower standard of living.

After Responsibility is relieved then dependence and expectation ensues (entitlement): welfare, healthcare, public education, higher education, guaranteed jobs...plundering of the tax payers dollars.

The country can only move in one direction because once entitlements are received they cannot be taken away without a revolution/revolt. The problem is, the system is unsustainable and will inevitably bankrupt which will in-turn lead to revolution/revolt (Greece).
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      11-08-2012, 12:42 AM   #2
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Agreed
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      11-08-2012, 01:43 AM   #3
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You make a mistake in assuming young people don't want socialism or communist. Most American's are brainwashed or taught to believe in such concepts. It would be better to have people read something like John Stuart Mill's On Liberty or Locke's Two Treatises of Government or even Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy so as to better understand what values this country is built on.

Some great quotes...
The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant.
John Stuart Mill

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill
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      11-08-2012, 12:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew777 View Post
You make a mistake in assuming young people don't want socialism or communist. Most American's are brainwashed or taught to believe in such concepts. It would be better to have people read something like John Stuart Mill's On Liberty or Locke's Two Treatises of Government or even Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy so as to better understand what values this country is built on.

Some great quotes...
The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant.
John Stuart Mill

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill
More advanced readings for the lamen^^

John Stuart Mill believed that a person should be left as free to pursue his own interests as long as it does not harm the interests of others. He believes in free trade, unadulterated by govt oversight and that if the govt ran the economy, then all people would aspire to be part of a bureaucracy which had no incentive to further the interests of any but itself

Other notable concepts Mill postulated:
-Flat taxation regardless of income (seems reasonable)
-Malthusian theory of population control for the laboring class (might ruffle some feathers but free contraception and govt sponsored abortion fits the bill)
-His views on politics evolved into a socialist outlook for many of the same reasons explored by Bastiat. However, he believed that the incompetence of the masses could eventually be overcome if they were given a chance to take part in politics, especially at the local level...something I doubt the majority of Americans are willing to undertake.

Locke's second treatise: "Only legitimate governments are those that have the consent of the people. Therefore, any government that rules without the consent of the people can, in theory, be overthrown."

Every social program that is enacted further locks the population of this country into dependance on the government. Dependence besets further dependence, hence the ceasing of wealth through higher taxation, government regulation and oversight of the entire economy snuffing out free trade, government ran education eliminating diversity of opinion...look at how much things have changed in just the last 100 years, look at the trend of American society...where are we headed?
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      11-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #5
amanda hor$t
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as it is, we're headed into a welfare state: just look at the popular values. america (generally speaking, i hardly ever use absolutes) values football and playmates over science and knowledge.

will america completely collapse? i doubt it, there's enough good stuff here. it will likely retract to a larger party of world powers (england, germany, china, india etc). that's why romney was so pro-military, it's america's last great bargaining chip. but without the dough, downsizing is inevitable.

and only a fool will believe that the smart money will be left holding the bag. a few clicks and i can move all my money across the continent, finding a new job is not as fast. the same people that promote and enjoy socialist benefits, are the same ones who likely have never left their home state.

"the problem with democracy is that most people don't deserve to vote"

"you'd be surprised how many people here don't even have $1000"

Last edited by amanda hor$t; 11-08-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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      11-08-2012, 01:12 PM   #6
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That's where.
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      11-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #7
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Take a look into the Iron Law of Oligarchy, a theory developed by Robert Michels in 1911. Speaking to how a representative democracy can degenerate into a form of particracy or oligarchy.

He stated:

"It is organization which gives birth to the dominion of the elected over the electors, of the mandataries over the mandators, of the delegates over the delegators. Who says organization, says oligarchy."

I find it an interesting bit of info, based on some of the discussions about how the Democratic party in the US is starting to become the more obvious choice for an overwhelming majority of American people (unless the Republican party seriously changes their ways).

I'm not hinting one way or the other, but take a look at it.
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      11-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #8
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I'm not one to watch much of these vids, but this one is pretty damn good. The end of it cuts off but I found it as part 8 for those of you that get hooked.

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      11-12-2012, 06:16 PM   #9
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Interesting vid. What is his definition of 'richest country in the world'? Is he basing this solely on GDP?

US was ranked quite low on most prosperous countries recently.
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