Palestinian Israeli Conflict

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Correct, they voted for Hamas, who was on the radio yesterday morning as the long-range rockets fell just outside of Jerusalem saying that their goal is to "liberate Palestine". They COULD have chosen peace, but they didn't. Israel may not be perfect in terms of their relationship with the Palestinians, but 60 years of running to bomb shelters and watching THEIR children be killed (although they tend not to shove the dead bodies in front of cameras with the abandon that the Palestinians do) will do that to a people. Moreover, as Golda Meir said, "we can forgive you for killing our children, we cannot forgive you for making us kill yours". The media tends to gloss over the fact that Israel puts up with vast numbers of Israeli deaths by rockets and suicide bombers before launching a retaliatory strike. When deciding whether Israel is "Justified" or not in terms of it's military operations, try to imagine what the US would do if faced with the same behavior from Canada or Mexico. Just how many rockets would have to land in the US before it launched a massive strike against the offending country?

The vast majority of so-called Palestinians should have been repatriated to Jordan or Egypt some 45 years ago. But their home nations chose to use them as pawns in a geopolitical game. It is fundamentally unfair to make that Israel's problem, but that's what's been done. Jordan and Egypt don't want them NOW, because their numbers have grown over 2-3 generations and they've been radicalized by their living conditions. But, realistically and reasonably, who should be absorbing these refugees? It's not for lack of capacity that Jordan and Egypt won't take them back. They pulled the pin on a grenade in 1947, and are afraid they can't put that pin back in before the grenade explodes.

I'll say it again because its pretty damn simple to understand.

Prior to the jewish governement killing this Hamas official, there was PEACE since 2008. It is now because of the jewish government that theres hundreds of rockets flying out of Gaza.

I blame no one for TODAYS situation except for the jewish military taking out this 1 person.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

4) Everything that has happened in the Middle East since 1947, has been colored by #3. There was no legitimate reason why Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, et. al could not have absorbed any actual refugees in 1947. (Israelis and Israeli Arabs have worked together bettter than Jews and Arabs in any Arab country). But the Arab League, as a policy, rejected all refugees precisely because they wanted to use them as pawns to put pressure on Israel.

Just from you saying Israeli Arabs its obvious you are a jew yourself. Any arab living in what you call Israel is first Arab then Israeli second (Arab-Israeli), not the other way around, just as I am an Afghan-American.

Pretty funny how jews use that term. I guess its their way of saying the land was always theirs.

Glad I'm not arab, because they all seem like a bunch of whimps not backing up or supporting their own blood, big shame to arabs....

[OldArmy]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

I'll say it again because its pretty damn simple to understand.

Prior to the jewish governement killing this Hamas official, there was PEACE since 2008. It is now because of the jewish government that theres hundreds of rockets flying out of Gaza.

I blame no one for TODAYS situation except for the jewish military taking out this 1 person.

I believe you are in error, the attack on the military commander of Hamas was in response to rocket attacks from Gaza, not the other way around. And "official" is an interesting description. He's a terrorist and has killed not only Israeli's but also those palestinians who opposed Hamas' takeover in Gaza. Starting with the truth would be helpful to any discussion.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

I believe you are in error, the attack on the military commander of Hamas was in response to rocket attacks from Gaza, not the other way around. And "official" is an interesting description. He's a terrorist and has killed not only Israeli's but also those palestinians who opposed Hamas' takeover in Gaza. Starting with the truth would be helpful to any discussion.

Oh really? How about you show me there was a single rocket sent out of Gaza last week that warranted IDF to kill this Hamas member?

Why is it interesting to call him an official? Wasn't he part of the Hamas government?

I can prove you wrong but I'll give you a chance to backup your statement.

[OldArmy]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Oh really? How about you show me there was a single rocket sent out of Gaza last week that warranted IDF to kill this Hamas member?

Why is it interesting to call him an official? Wasn't he part of the Hamas government?

I can prove you wrong but I'll give you a chance to backup your statement.

Hmmm, let's see, when it comes to which event came first it would seem it's every major media outlet in the world versus, well, you. Rockets first, Hamas leader killed second. He's commander (well, he was until he showed himself) of the military wing of Hamas, not an elected official, just another terrorist murderer who got his just deserts. One thing for sure, he won't be murdering any more palestinians or jews for that matter.

[Fox128i]

Peace since 2008? Not quite...

There have been 800 rockets launched at Israel from Gaza since January of 2012.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by Fox128i

Peace since 2008? Not quite...

There have been 800 rockets launched at Israel from Gaza since January of 2012.

800 rockets and how many killed by those? None? Damage? $300 total, maybe?
What kind of rockets are those when they throw 800+ of them on Israel and ALL of them miss??
They are either terrible shooters or those rockets are made of rubber...

I am not supporting either side, however, when I hear the stories of hundreds of rockets, every day a few, and in 2008-2010 I spent MONTHS in Israel and have not seen/heard a SINGLE rocket/explosion, I wonder, what kind of rockets are we talking about.

Furthermore, one side has killed easily 100x+ innocent than the other side. Gaza strip (I have been there) is the World's biggest cage! And it is not the only cage in Israel/West bank and many more coming up...

Seems to me that it is expected that only one side gives up on everything or...
Sad situation, overall...

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by dr335is

800 rockets and how many killed by those? None? Damage? $300 total, maybe?
What kind of rockets are those when they throw 800+ of them on Israel and ALL of them miss??
They are either terrible shooters or those rockets are made of rubber...

I am not supporting either side, however, when I hear the stories of hundreds of rockets, every day a few, and in 2008-2010 I spent MONTHS in Israel and have not seen/heard a SINGLE rocket/explosion, I wonder, what kind of rockets are we talking about.

Furthermore, one side has killed easily 100x+ innocent than the other side. Gaza strip (I have been there) is the World's biggest cage! And it is not the only cage in Israel/West bank and many more coming up...

Seems to me that it is expected that only one side gives up on everything or...
Sad situation, overall...

You would have to ask Hamas as to why they are so lousy at hitting targets. Been there too and have met some amazing and wonderful people. Israel could give in to every Palestinian demand tomorrow and there would still be no real peace. Not so long as there are Jews feet dry in what many describe as the "Holy Land".

Bit of irony in such a title if you ask me, especially seeing that so much violence and death happens there. Sad situation is an understatement.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Israel,_2012

[SfValley335i]

Wikipedia isnt and shouldnt be used as a factual source of info unless your a high school kid working on a paper...

Trust me if there was so many rockets being fired each and every month Im sure it wouldve been on the news like it has been this week.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Wikipedia isnt and shouldnt be used as a factual source of info unless your a high school kid working on a paper...

Trust me if there was so many rockets being fired each and every month Im sure it wouldve been on the news like it has been this week.

Then post something that proves otherwise. Yes, American media is also very reliable...

Here is something biased in your favor, and it still shows attacks and deaths in '10, and '11.

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/dissec...t-attacks.html

So where was this peace again? I'll wait...

Here's another article about the "peace since 2008:" http://reliefweb.int/report/israel/2...tacks-shin-bet

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by Fox128i

You would have to ask Hamas as to why they are so lousy at hitting targets. Been there too and have met some amazing and wonderful people. Israel could give in to every Palestinian demand tomorrow and there would still be no real peace. Not so long as there are Jews feet dry in what many describe as the "Holy Land".

Bit of irony in such a title if you ask me, especially seeing that so much violence and death happens there. Sad situation is an understatement.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Israel,_2012

Serbia had their "Holy Land" taken away by the USA...
Looks like it is all the politics, if you ask me
And innocent pay the price, on all sides...

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Wikipedia isnt and shouldnt be used as a factual source of info unless your a high school kid working on a paper...

Trust me if there was so many rockets being fired each and every month Im sure it wouldve been on the news like it has been this week.

Then why don't you bother referring to the media outlets that Wikipedia uses to compile the data? They list them at the bottom of the page. Is Reuters non-factual? The Jerusalem Post probably isn't factual though, after all it's no doubt a Zionist newspaper, right?

Oh, hey Templar, no worries mate. Happens to me too. Love your M3, so worth 5 stars.

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by dr335is

Serbia had their "Holy Land" taken away by the USA...
Looks like it is all the politics, if you ask me
And innocent pay the price, on all sides...

The innocent have always paid the highest price, all throughout history. I wonder how many have died in the name of religion, or in the name of one god or another? Or over some deified patch of soil?