|
|
09-22-2013, 04:05 PM | #23 |
-
11817
Rep 23,187
Posts |
The more aggressive the pad is the faster it will clear. I ran ds2500s as my dual purpose pad. Then pagid rs19s after that and just used them on the street too. Sounds like a school bus. All depends on how much track vs street you want to make it.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 04:07 PM | #24 |
Lieutenant General
2146
Rep 10,176
Posts |
That is pad transfer deposit, which is normally caused by not bedding in the brake pads well, using pads that are not meant for the track, or not cooling the brakes enough.
FWIW, once I added brake ducting to my Pagid RS-19/Motul RBF-660 combo (running NT-01s), I have had zero brake issues, even with having my car dual driven at Laguna Seca (basically had multiple hour long sessions over multiple days), with no fade at all. It stops like I threw out an anchor with those pads too... and the pads last longer with the added cooling. You can DIY ducts for ~$100. Best track facing mod I've done to my car, hands down. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 04:21 PM | #25 | |
Banned
56
Rep 530
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 04:30 PM | #26 | |
Banned
56
Rep 530
Posts |
Quote:
If you are S/C'd and hitting those speeds, and track the car hard, sure I can see the benefit. Lets face it, most of the guys arent S/C'd and are not pushing the car to the maximum. I'm not arguing against the benefits of using a BBK (if you can justify the costs) but when the OP is using stock pads and all people respond with is to get a BBK, I find it rather silly. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 04:32 PM | #27 |
Second Lieutenant
160
Rep 254
Posts |
This can be fixed?
So you guys think it is pad deposit and a more aggressive pad will get rid of it?
I am looking around at about $500 for new pagid pads all around with new motul and braided stop tech lines. I am either going to do this or stop tech BBK in the front. If I go with stop tech BBK and their street pads do you think that will be ok at the track (I do about 3-5 events per year). If so I know they wouldnt be noisy on the street. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 04:34 PM | #28 | |
Banned
56
Rep 530
Posts |
Quote:
If you got the money, go with the stop tech kit. Either way, get some proper pads. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 05:13 PM | #29 | |
Major General
3427
Rep 6,769
Posts
Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach
iTrader: (1)
Garage List 2012 BMW e92 M3 [0.00]
2021 BMW X5M [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 Tu ... [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 GT3 [10.00] |
Quote:
__________________
Current BMWs: 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo a couple others IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 07:51 PM | #31 |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
I just got the StopTech BBK (first time with it out on the track this coming weekend ), but OP I had the same issue on the track and solved it without a BBK. My horrible steering vibration during medium braking after a 2-day event didn't go away even after several weeks of regular driving. I wasn't ready to drop the coin on a BBK then, but my mechanic/instructor said that if I just upgraded to a better pad it might solve the problem. His rationale was that the OEM pads couldn't dissipate the heat generated at the track as well as something better, so they just deposited all of that excess heat into the rotors when the brakes were applied, eventually causing either messed up rotors or messed up pads leaving uneven deposits.
So I switched to StopTech Street Performance pads for both road and track duty. On the road they worked exactly like OEM in terms of noise (none), dust, etc except for SLIGHTLY less cold bite when it's chilly outside (around 50 F), but that goes away after the first few brake applications and isn't enough to be an issue; you just notice it the first time and slightly increase your stopping distance early in your drives. On the track, they resisted fade MUCH longer than OEM and I never had that steering wheel vibration issue again. They do wear faster than the OEM pads, but the Street Performance pads in stock M3 fitment are a steal, so I didn't really care. I got mine from HP Autowerks, fwiw.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 08:58 PM | #32 |
-
11817
Rep 23,187
Posts |
LUTE the voice of reason!
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-22-2013, 09:43 PM | #33 |
Major General
890
Rep 9,031
Posts |
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884790
It's nice to see PF put some clips on the pads since people use to say they would make a lot of noise without them. Add these ducts and some tubing through the under-carriage to the wheel well and you may have enough braking capacity. There's also a bunch of BBK's for sale, including a new STTrophie set-up and 4Seven's used front and new rears, and a 365mm Brembo fronts. .
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2013, 04:06 PM | #34 |
Captain
56
Rep 865
Posts |
Definitely pad deposits. These rotors will not warp.
First couple of days I did with a 100% stock car, I was so worried that I had toasted the rotors. They were vibrating so badly. After some reading on here I realized that they were not warped and the pad deposits from the stock pads were causing this vibration. Stainless lines + regular fresh Motul 600 + PFC01 and I am no where near the braking capabilities of this car. I am not brave enough to truly benefit from how great these brakes are. Most track pads (legit track pads, dual purpose don't exist) will put deposits on the rotor when flying around the track hot, but I leave them in for a day or two after an event and they clear everything right up. Still on my first set and they are holding up great. If you are doing 3-5 events a year, a BBK is a waste of money IMO. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-27-2013, 10:25 AM | #35 | |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
Quote:
I'm doing 4-5 events per year (but all 2-day events) and got a BBK just for the front to simplify pad swaps and gain extra heat capacity and therefore fade resistance; thought about the rear but StopTech's own website argues against rear brake upgrades in pretty much every case on front-engine cars. Never tried race pads on the stock calipers, though I did run StopTech Street Performance pads and liked them on both road and track, and I'll continue running them in the rear stock calipers on the track with PFC08 up front, which seems to be a relatively common setup.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-27-2013, 11:04 AM | #36 | |
Captain
56
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
Glad you like the BBK. I personally cannot justify the money on a BBK when the stock setup is already so good for my needs. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-27-2013, 12:06 PM | #37 | |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
Quote:
But all that said, I made it out of Blue group with nothing but better fluid, Street Performance pads, and camber plates which I installed primarily to stop cording the outsides of my tires rather than for the extra grip, so I can absolutely see where you're coming from especially if you've got full race pads in the stock setup, which I never tried mostly because I knew I didn't want to run them full-time, didn't want to pay a shop to swap them all the time, and thought swapping them myself on the stock setup would be more hassle than I wanted to put up with.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-27-2013, 12:06 PM | #38 |
just another M3
514
Rep 1,150
Posts |
Look I'm on a set of stock rotors that I have done 6 track day and 2 was a 2 day event, so that 8 track days and its my DD. I never run stock pads at the track. I use hawk dct70. which are not rotor friendly. One day I got lazy and ran my stock pad at the track, after 2 sessions I got all this shaking on the steering. That was cause the pad glazed over. I installed the hawks soon after and all better, shaking gone. That hawks are so hard the stripped the brake material transfer and bedded them self in. I'm now back on the stock pads and rotor still good. you probably didn't wrap your rotors just had bad brake transfer layer. put a dial indicator on it and check run out.
Buy better pads for track. Also make sure you got good fluid and SS lines |
Appreciate
0
|
09-27-2013, 01:09 PM | #39 | |
Captain
56
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
Whenever BMW CCA schedules the trifecta again I will be out there. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-02-2013, 09:52 PM | #40 |
Second Lieutenant
160
Rep 254
Posts |
So I decided to get some Pagid Sport pads, stop tech brakes lines and new better fluid. I get the car back tomorrow. From normal driving the vibration in the sterring wheel has gotten better under braking, but I think there is still brake pad residue on the rotors.
My question is how should I go about trying to bed my brakes in with residue still being on the rotors? I know these pads are more aggressive so I was just thinking about driving like normal until the steering wheel vibration goes away and then bedding them? Any help is appreciated. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-02-2013, 10:07 PM | #41 | |
-
11817
Rep 23,187
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-03-2013, 11:42 AM | #42 | ||
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
All that said, my steering wheel vibration persisted for about 3 weeks after a track event before I gave up and took it in to the dealer, where I got new pads and rotors for free, so fixing your uneven deposits problem may take quite a while of light braking.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) Last edited by jphughan; 10-03-2013 at 11:50 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
10-03-2013, 02:11 PM | #43 |
Second Lieutenant
160
Rep 254
Posts |
Dealer just called
They said the rotors are warped. They said they cleaned off the deposits and they are still bad.
I might be just doing BBK now. |
Appreciate
0
|
10-03-2013, 04:48 PM | #44 |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
I'm always suspicious of warped rotor claims, especially after reading StopTech's article about the issue, but if you go a BBK I like the StopTech kit. I got the ST60 for the added heat capacity of the larger rotor but the ST40 might do you just fine and leave you with more wheel choices (including the OEM 18s, which don't clear the ST60 caliper). Fyi I only got a BBK on the front axle because StopTech themselves argue against rear BBKs on front-engine cars as long as you have a properly designed front BBK -- reason is that front-engine cars practically never have a heat problem on the rear axle, and a good front BBK will maintain the OEM pressure-torque relationship, so brake imbalance on a single-axle upgrade isn't an issue either. So unless aesthetics are that important to you, save the money and keep weight down back there. Had my first track weekend with the BBK (PFC 08 race pads up front, StopTech Street Performance pads in the rear) and it worked VERY well, huge improvement over my previous OEM setup with Street Performance pads in both axles. I'm mixing pads on the track to save the effort of swapping pads in the OEM rear calipers, which seems a fairly common setup, and the Street Performance pads are just fine for the track in the rear even now that I'm in Yellow group.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Tags |
brakes, rotors |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|