▀▄ eas | S65 Rod Bearing Replacement: An ongoing "Journal"

[pbonsalb]

I put mine up on the lift last weekend and will change the bearings one night this week. 08 with 62k. Using WPC treated bearings. Will post details later.

[W///]

Originally Posted by 4corners

Now I know if my copper says 40 it's past time to change the bearings.

And I won't be driving it 3000 miles and checking it again. Bearings ASAP.

+1. Completely agree

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I put mine up on the lift last weekend and will change the bearings one night this week. 08 with 62k. Using WPC treated bearings. Will post details later.

Very cool. Take as many pictures as possible.

[pbonsalb]

There is already one DIY, which I am following, but I will add some comments and pictures.

[surewin]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I put mine up on the lift last weekend and will change the bearings one night this week. 08 with 62k. Using WPC treated bearings. Will post details later.

You have your own lift??

Are you doing this as a preventative, or have you had symptoms as well? Yes, please post more pics!

[pbonsalb]

You can buy a lift for $1400 from gregsmithequipment.com. I do all my own work because that is the only way I can afford my car hobby. It is not always fun. For doing complicated jobs the first time, I will get a mechanic friend to help me.

No symptoms. Purely preventative maintenance. I am curious what I will find.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You can buy a lift for $1400 from gregsmithequipment.com. I do all my own work because that is the only way I can afford my car hobby. It is not always fun. For doing complicated jobs the first time, I will get a mechanic friend to help me.

No symptoms. Purely preventative maintenance. I am curious what I will find.

Please take lots of photos of the bearings and designate their positions!

[imstimpy]

Does anybody have some audio of the ticking commonly attributed to heavy bearing wear?

Found it! I just had to check the other thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by imstimpy

Does anybody have some audio of the ticking commonly attributed to heavy bearing wear?

Search here for "Gintani", and on youtube too.

[douglee25]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You can buy a lift for $1400 from gregsmithequipment.com. I do all my own work because that is the only way I can afford my car hobby. It is not always fun. For doing complicated jobs the first time, I will get a mechanic friend to help me.

No symptoms. Purely preventative maintenance. I am curious what I will find.

How'd things look on the tear down?

Doug

[pbonsalb]

They look like many of the other pictures we have seen. Not among the best, not among the worst. I am no expert, but would not say failure was imminent. On the other hand, 4 of the top halves should areas of much heavier than normal wear, with a hint of copper on the bearing edge on a couple of them. Unfortunately, my pictures came out dark so you may not see much from the attached. As soon as I have some time, I will do a short DIY write up with some better pictures, maybe one of each bearing. Car is back on the road and running fine, filled with Mobil 1 0W40 though I would also consider running a 5W40.

[douglee25]

Yeah, they look pretty typical from what we've seen. I too agree failure wasn't imminent 'just yet'.

Doug


Edit - you used the ARP studs, correct?

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

They look like many of the other pictures we have seen. Not among the best, not among the worst. I am no expert, but would not say failure was imminent. On the other hand, 4 of the top halves should areas of much heavier than normal wear, with a hint of copper on the bearing edge on a couple of them. Unfortunately, my pictures came out dark so you may not see much from the attached. As soon as I have some time, I will do a short DIY write up with some better pictures, maybe one of each bearing. Car is back on the road and running fine, filled with Mobil 1 0W40 though I would also consider running a 5W40.

Good info, good work, but that is par for the course with you!

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by douglee25

Yeah, they look pretty typical from what we've seen. I too agree failure wasn't imminent 'just yet'.

Doug


Edit - you used the ARP studs, correct?

I saved the ARP money and used new stock bolts. $200 difference. Maybe not much to some but I can use it to buy more tools and parts. No reported failures of stock bolts so I am not worried. For those paying a shop, use the ARPs since the torque sequence for new stock bolts is a pain in the rear and takes a while. You'll pay for the ARPs in saved labor. On the other hand, any shop charging a flat rate for this job makes more money because it saves time if you spend more money to buy the ARPs.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Good info, good work, but that is par for the course with you!

Thanks. You are one of the modification pioneers and share your good and bad experiences so I enjoy your build threads.

[douglee25]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I saved the ARP money and used new stock bolts. $200 difference. Maybe not much to some but I can use it to buy more tools and parts. No reported failures of stock bolts so I am not worried. For those paying a shop, use the ARPs since the torque sequence for new stock bolts is a pain in the rear and takes a while. You'll pay for the ARPs in saved labor. On the other hand, any shop charging a flat rate for this job makes more money because it saves time if you spend more money to buy the ARPs.

Thanks for the info.

Doesn't one typically have to resize the rod ends when using ARP bolts due to the increased clamping load?

Doug

[pbonsalb]

That question is beyond me. My belief is that the clamping force is no greater. ARP spec is 45 or 50 lbs and I suspect the stock bolt angle torque works out to about the same. The ARP may be a stronger material, at least the newer "2000" version and thus less likely to break, but I don't think any motor problems have been attributed to the stock bolts so breakage is not an issue. As far as I know, there are no special procedures such as resizing for using the ARPs.

[douglee25]

OK interesting. I'd be interested to see what others have seen/measured.

I'm pretty in tune to LSX engines and many have installed ARP rod bolts without resizing the journals. They do in fact produce a greater clamping force which reduces the clearance by a measureable amount (don't have #'s off hand). Some engine failures have been attributed to the reduced clearance issue on those motors. In an ideal world, it would behoove us to do that on the S65, but that would require us to completely tear down this motor.

Doug

[M3Guy]

I hate to see all of the people out there having problems with this. I just sold my 2011 e92 M3 because I keep seeing more and more of the issues popping up and didn't want to go down the sc road just to blow the motor. Plus I've had my eye on a 911 TT for a long long time

[Sirius Black]

Just had my bearings done at 84,xxx miles. No symptoms were present. I have been boosted for the last 13k miles. Got tired of being worried it was gonna blow up. Well, turns out all I'm really getting is piece of mind.

I haven't seen the old bearings yet, but I'm being told that they could have easily gone another 80000 miles. The car has had fresh oil in it every 5k miles, I don't beat on it until the oil temps are up, and never money shifted it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is unless you see/hear the signs the bearing are going, don't stress out too much about them.

I think they saved them for me, I'll post pics if they did.

[EuroKar]

That's awesome your doing it yourself. Its a pretty easy installation. I've done a few myself

[pbonsalb]

[QUOTE=

ARP rod bolts . . . do in fact produce a greater clamping force which reduces the clearance by a measureable amount (don't have #'s off hand).

Doug[/QUOTE]

Is that just on the LSx motors or as a proposition in general? If the torque is the same, why would the clamping force be greater? More consistent maybe. Less likely to break probably. Less stretch probably. But I think more clamping force than stock in that application would be bad for the reasons you stated. Which is why I don't think ARP specifies more torque. Head studs might be another matter. I run ARP head studs on my turbo E36 M3 for the greater and more reliable clamping force.

[douglee25]

I believe ARP recommends a greater torque on the bolts in order to create the proper bolt stretch. Because of this a greater clamping load is achieved and the big end of the rod becomes out of round. Thus why they recommend resizing the big end of the rod.

Doug