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09-24-2014, 12:00 PM | #177 | ||
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All real world data, including professional racing experience on a wide array of cars, and feedback from actual customers on both platforms suggests that our discs are indeed very appropriately sized to provide a long service life for these platforms while removing the maximum amount of unsprung weight. A C6 Z06 weighs approximately 3200 lbs., has about 500hp and tq., and typically would be running a 305 width front tire on track. It's also arguably easier to achieve superior aero on a C6 Vette. An e92 M3 weighs 3400-3500 lbs., has 100 less hp and far less tq., running a considerably narrower front tire, and likely won't be as slippery. Despite the 200-300 weight difference, the vette is going to be far harder on the brakes. All else equal, it's going to be going a lot faster at the end of the straight. More speed = more kinetic energy transferred into heat. I addressed this issue on the first page of my post...not sure if you caught this or not. It mentions weight vs. speed, and the impact on brakes (see below). As another example, did you know that the biggest discs we sell to NASCAR Sprint Cup teams are only 328mm in diameter? Those cars weigh about the same as an e90 M3, have about 900 hp, and run fat slicks hitting 200mph. At a road course like Watkins Glen, they are absolutely devastating on brakes! Therefore, I believe our Endurance Kit for the M3 is every bit as much an Endurance Kit for these cars as it is for Corvettes. We have yet to see anything to the contrary. Huge discs look pretty, but come with significant penalties. Our design philosophy with these kits is essentially, anything more than is required is too much. Why drag around an extra 5 lbs. per corner of dead weight if it's not needed? Now if you told me you were going to run a 24 hour race, then I'd say, "Sure, you could probably go a little bigger." That's why the GT4 has larger diameter front discs, but that's not something most of our customers plan to do however. Also, please note that they're only running 355mm discs on the back of that car, despite running 24 hr. races. Hopefully that all makes sense. Quote:
Last edited by jritt@essex; 09-24-2014 at 12:06 PM.. Reason: Added info |
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09-24-2014, 11:13 PM | #178 |
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I think I know where you're coming from, Jeff. But still, are you planning on making a bigger kit some time in the future? For me it'd be worth waiting for since what you're putting together is a work of art!
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09-25-2014, 07:14 AM | #179 | |
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If people want a kit with bigger discs, we will consider building it. As I've mentioned in this thread several times, we want to provide our customers with what they want. Sometimes people don't know what they need, and require guidance. Other times they just want what they want, which I totally understand. I've been there many times myself. So, if you've been seriously considering buying one of our kits but the smaller disc size is holding you back, shoot me a PM or email me and let us know. Thanks gents. |
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09-25-2014, 04:35 PM | #180 |
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Jeff, I am fine with the disc option, but I wish you used a cheaper pad with more volume. I have a similar pad in my ST60 kit and if I try hard enough, I can blow through a set of pads pretty quickly, and with replacement pads costing north of $500 they are expensive to run.
I know there are limitations with what can be produced, but are there any plans for thicker pad option like your 4pot kits? |
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09-25-2014, 10:33 PM | #181 |
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That would be great, Jeff. A kit just like the one you've put together, but then with front discs in the 368-378mm range (rears at approx. 355mm) and with an APR Pro 5000+ series caliper that would take 25mm pads would be an amazing setup for more endurance oriented applications.
I will PM you about this later. Thanks for being open to this possibility. |
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09-26-2014, 12:38 PM | #182 | ||
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Understood gents. Thank you very much for your input.
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The bigger issue would be with the discs however. If you're running a high vane count disc like the one in our kit (72 vanes vs. 48 vanes), you're moving more cooling air, your discs temps are going to be lower, and your resulting pad wear rates will be decreased. All of the components in the system work together towards the end result. That said, I hear you on the 25mm thick pads. One of the big problems that comes into play when going to calipers that use pads that thick is wheel fitment. When going from an 18mm thick pad to a 25mm, you're typically losing most of that 7 mm on wheel spoke clearance. When we designed this kit, we took that into consideration, and felt that the superior wheel clearance was worth the tradeoff for most of our customers, considering how they use their cars. Again though, that's not obviously the case with everybody. Quote:
If we did a kit with a bigger disc, it would likely be tied to a thicker pad as well. So you'd be getting a significant increase in thermal capacity from both the pad and disc in the same kit. If we go down that path, maybe we'll call it our "Obscenely Overkill" big brake kit, or our OOBBK. Also a note...It's going to be tough to fit anything much bigger than a 362mm disc inside an 18" wheel. Our Factory AP Racing BBK for the Corvette uses a disc that size, and the caliper is literally grazing stick-on wheel weights on the barrel of the wheel. Keep in mind that you still need enough room to drop a caliper on top of the disc. The shape of the caliper, pad retention mechanism, etc. all come into play, so what works for one manufacturer's setup on a disc of X size, may not work with a different caliper. Behind an OEM C6 Z06 18" wheel Behind an aftermarket, multi-piece 18" wheel |
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09-27-2014, 12:32 PM | #183 |
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On the front, an AP Racing 5260 caliper with 25mm thick pads on a 368mm disc clears the wheel barrel, at its tightest point, by a 13 mm margin. This is on an Apex EC-7 18”x10” ET25 wheel (a fairly typical track-oriented application). It should also easily clear similarly track-oriented 18” wheels. So it should be feasible to go to an even larger disc without too much worry.
The template for this particular combination is downloadable from the APR website. This combination should also clear the stock 18” wheel with a 15mm spacer. Most of us would not be running stock wheels at this point, however. |
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11-04-2014, 07:57 AM | #185 |
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how does changing between a street pad and a track pad wear on the rotors? is it possible that one of the two will embed differently and cause some shudder, vibration, or uneven wear?
also, in the original post, the rotors on the m3 and the rotors on the corvette appear to be a little different. the m3's design doesn't have the hat cutouts (or maybe its the rotor?). but it says the m3 kit will look exactly like the vette kit. any clarification on this?
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12-01-2014, 02:19 PM | #186 | |
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Our hat designs vary depending on platform, cooling needs, etc. If you look at the pics of the hats on our website, those are the production hats that ship in the kit. |
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12-05-2014, 11:16 AM | #188 |
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Here's another great review of our brake kit from a One Lap of America winner after a few days at VIR. In this case, the kit actually went on a rare, 420hp, 1M Coupe...pretty cool! He used our standard E92 M3 kit, which comes from the factory with the same brakes as the 1M.
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01-08-2015, 08:05 AM | #189 | |
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We just received some awesome feedback from one of the drivers of the Yost M3, which recently completed the 25 Hours of Thunderhill. His comments give you a pretty good idea of the durability and performance of our kit under grueling wheel-to-wheel race conditions. They started the race on a used set of AP Racing discs, ran them over 1500 miles during the full 25 hours without a disc change.
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Also, here are a couple of cool renderings of the Yost M3 that a fan created in Forza 5 on XBox One...amazing amount of detail, and pretty darn believable! Here's a profile of the real car for comparison... |
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01-08-2015, 08:59 AM | #190 |
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More good news...One of our customers drove his Essex/AP Racing-equipped M3 to a GT Class time attack victory at Sepang over the weekend. He put his car through 100 laps of abuse at the famous Formula 1 circuit while securing the win. Sepang is a 3.4 mile track with 15 turns and 2 long, high speed straights that end in notoriously demanding brake zones.
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01-08-2015, 04:07 PM | #191 |
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01-27-2015, 07:02 AM | #193 |
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04-13-2015, 02:15 PM | #194 |
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Did the tax man help you or hurt you this year? If he hooked it up, please keep reading!
For the first time ever, we're offering a $400 off sale on our front E92 M3 BBK. It likely won't happen again any time soon, so get 'em while the gettin's good! Thanks. |
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05-14-2015, 09:37 AM | #196 |
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Just an FYI gents...our development on the e92 platform soldiers on. Please see this post for details. The AP Racing Radi-CAL cometh!
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05-15-2015, 06:32 AM | #197 |
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If I was doing this all over with what I know now, I would have installed AP instead of Stoptech.
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05-16-2015, 05:50 PM | #198 |
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