[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by scollins

Yes, I agree that the lax driver testing standards is also a culprit. I find it unacceptable that the Washington State Driver test can be administered in 45 languages! How many cops speak 45 languages? How many road signs are in 45 languages? But since we just hand out driver's license like "free candy for life", it is a problem. I think more rigorous training needs to be done, as well as regular re-testing.

But I do think that automatic transmissions are a small part of the problem. They've become ubiquitous, and I don't think one can argue that they require far less driver involvement. I don't care to hear about "paddles" either, as that is a relatively recent development.

But I see automatics as the first sign of the driver apocalypse. Then we get ABS, because people drive too fast for conditions and a system is needed to more quickly modulate the brakes. Now people don't want to wear seatbelts, so airbags are created. But wait, those airbags are more dangerous if you aren't wearing a seat belt, so now we mandate seat belt use.


Can't be bothered to look behind you when backing up? Now we have back up cameras and sensors!

Can't turn your head to do a head check before changing lanes? Our blind spot detector system will do it for you!

Can't parallel park? Let our system parallel park the car for you!

Can't put down your cell phone in traffic to notice the impending crash in front of you? Our "city safety" brake system will stop for you! (Volvo).

Driving too fast at night? We have a heads up display to show you what's out there!

Fall asleep at the wheel because you are driving when you shouldn't be? Our "lane departure" system will shake the wheel or your seat to wake you up! If those systems don't wake you up, our car will brake for you automatically and bring you safely to a stop!

Too difficult to maintain a safe distance from the car in front of you? Our adaptive cruise control will manage that for you!

Is your car accelerating due to a defective pedal or system? Our "brake override system" will cut the throttle automatically when you apply the brake!

And the list just keeps growing....

And I say, it all started to go down hill with the introduction of the automatic transmission. Soon enough, all you have to do is get in the car's backseat, and the car will drive itself. As a matter of fact, for your own safety and the safety of those around you, you will NOT be allowed to drive at all.

so true!

[FStop7]

Before the US Government owned General Motors, everyone loved Toyota.

After the government took over GM, suddenly Toyota is rocked by recalls and fear.

Do you seriously think that's a coincidence? Seriously?

[bosstones]

amen to both your posts, immiketoo! I think we should just pass regulation to ban stupid people from driving. That would take care of a lot of problems.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by scollins

Honestly, I place the blame for all these acceleration accidents at the feet of automatic transmissions. Why? Automatics have become so prevalent that many people completely forget how their cars work. I know that these deaths are tragedies, but if someone has enough time to call 911 and say their car is careening out of control, then they have had MORE than ample time to move the shift lever to FUCKING NEUTRAL!!!!!

I haven't looked at the data, but I'm willing to bet that every single accident attributed to stuck accelerators were cars equipped with automatic transmissions. Why? Because anyone who drives a manual transmission knows to push in the damn clutch! These would be "panic stop" situations, which means "both feet IN!"

I'm not meaning for this to be a "auto vs. manual" thread. I'd say most of the automatic drivers here on this forum would know to move the shift lever to neutral in these situations. But the vast majority of Americans are bad drivers at best. Which is why the government wants to intervene. "People are dumb, so we must make systems that keep them from hurting themselves." Sadly, the unintended consequence is that each new "safety system" just further removes the driver from the operation, masking even worse inadequacies and deficiencies in skills.

And the ultimate oxymoron about this concept? Doesn't the US government feel the REAL problem is the ELECTRONIC CONTROLS in Toyota cars that are the problem? So let's mandate a different electronic control system to make sure the first electronic control system problem doesn't happen! Am I the only one who sees the idiocy in that??

I completely agree. I had my permit for several months before I took drivers ed. My father taught me how to drive and he is a retired SCCA B-stock racer. He taught me everything that I know, including anticipation and how to read drivers on the road, driver offensively. I tend to think that I am a decent driver.

Back to the story, I was driving in my driver's ed car on a two lane road in the right lane. I saw a sign that said merge left 1/2 mile, one lane road. I was clear at the time, so I moved over. My driver's ed instructor grabbed the wheel and pulled the car back into the right lane. He yelled at me and I said that I was moving over because of the merge. He said "No! You wait for the end of the lane and then move over"

My sister was driving a 2001 Mercury Mountaineer (an SUV) with less than six months on her license. She had her left rear tire blow out (Firestone) while doing 70 on the highway. She safely controlled her car and brought it safely to a stop. Most americans are not taught how to deal with this situation, so they panic, smash the brakes, and roll the truck.

The moral of those stories is that american's are bad drivers because of the way that we are instructed. We are taught to wait until the last second and we are never taught how to handle a bad situation, so americans tend to panic.

All that being said. I thought that you cant shift Toyotas into nuetral on the fly. Like the car physically will not let you jam the car into neutral while driving.

Originally Posted by scollins

HAH!! The (mostly terrible) movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind. I'd laugh more if it wasn't TRUE!

I just thought about that crappy Luke Wilson movie when I read the Volvo theory! haha.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by bosstones

amen to both your posts, immiketoo! I think we should just pass regulation to ban stupid people from driving. That would take care of a lot of problems.

Oh God, the things I could correct with Stupid People Legislation. Combine that with a natural selection clause, an accountability clause and penalties substantial enough to make people actually think for themselves? Imagine the possibilities!

Idiocracy was a stupid movie, but frightening at the same time. In fact, I couldn't get it out of my head for days due to it's prophetic nature. "It's got lectrolytes..."

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

"No! You wait for the end of the lane and then move over"

The moral of those stories is that american's are bad drivers because of the way that we are instructed. We are taught to wait until the last second and we are never taught how to handle a bad situation, so americans tend to panic.

This phenomenon is true for so many issues in America. Driving, interpersonal conflict, violence, money, sex... It's amazing this country hasn't self destructed yet. Panic/fear is the easiest way to control another person.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

Idiocracy was a stupid movie, but frightening at the same time. In fact, I couldn't get it out of my head for days due to it's prophetic nature. "It's got lectrolytes..."

It's got what plants crave!

[scollins]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

All that being said. I thought that you cant shift Toyotas into nuetral on the fly. Like the car physically will not let you jam the car into neutral while driving.

If that is true, then that is a galactic fuck-up on Toyota's part. There should never be a "neutral lock-out" on an automatic, especially when the car is in motion.

[bosstones]

I would actually smile if this extended more to Lexus. I also wonder if Honda is secretly worried/concerned.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by tuco44

No matter which country it is, whenever the politians get involved, it spells trouble. Politians harvest votes, they don't give a damn if ruins a car enthusiasts life. Over-reacting and acting like they are doing something. Am I cynical? You bet.

sadly car enthusiasts are not even a blip on the radar to politicians.

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

sadly car enthusiasts are not even a blip on the radar to politicians.

To most people, cars just get them from point A to point B. Then to "semi-enthusiasts," it's the same thing, just with a badge or nicer appointments. But it's still just an appliance to get them to/from work; wherever. That's probably why they don't pay attention to their driving either... it's just another mundane thing in their life. I guess that's why people want their cars to do everything for them.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Kampfer

To most people, cars just get them from point A to point B. Then to "semi-enthusiasts," it's the same thing, just with a badge or nicer appointments. But it's still just an appliance to get them to/from work; wherever. That's probably why they don't pay attention to their driving either... it's just another mundane thing in their life. I guess that's why people want their cars to do everything for them.

I agree.

I think the general public's driving ability has gotten worse. Especially in recent times.

I find myself having to drive much more defensively lately.