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      08-09-2013, 11:49 AM   #23
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Momentum? m*v? How does this play a role in acceleration? Two cars, same mass. One is accelerating through 80 mph and one is steady at 80 mph. At that instant when they are at 80 mph, they have the same momentum...
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      08-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #24
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The car accelerating has a clear advantage.
Physics aside for a minute, if I'm at CalSpeedway going 90MPH on the straight away, and a car behind me is flat out accelerating from 30-150, you don't think his 90-150 time will be better than mine?
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      08-09-2013, 12:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
This video clearly shows the best comparison of both blowers at the same boost. Both cars running 6.5 psi and the same blower and Psi we use on our level 1 kit.

I remember when this same car owner set the world record with his ESS VT1. Remember this?
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...73&postcount=2

On his ESS kit, he posted dyno, drag race slips, and vbox times. Since then, he switched kits, dyno'd, ran drags, vbox times and hasn't posted any of them. You have to assume they don't have anything to brag about yet. So all we get is this fluffy video that shows nothing at all, not even the rear camera angle that you can clearly see mounted to the car. My buddies were at this event, and LM refused a rematch with this car. Wonder why (not).

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IMG its common sense that a car in motion will beat a car that is just starting to take off at the same speed. This is physics and does not take an equation to figure out.
Still trying to find the physics you're talking about Andrew. Can you please explain it? Below I ran some CarTest simulations. As you know, CarTest is a physics based car simulator. So if it's phyics, then CarTest will show it.

I downloaded NikB's AA dyno files from the s65dynos.com dyno database and I input them into CarTest. This way, the model is based on real life dyno results on an actual AA Stage-2 Level-3 car. Then I ran two tests on CarTest: 5MPH - 200MPH, and 70MPH - 200MPH. Since the race in this video starts at 80MPH, I figured this would simulate the exact scenario in the video and we could see (based purely on physics and the dyno results of being "under boost") if a running start makes any difference.

Here's the results. Both cars accelerated from 80-200MPH at exactly the same rate. See charts below for each test.


Quote:
Try your theory on the street with a slower car flying by you and see how long it takes you to catch up.
Andrew, I told you that I've already done this test -- with video vbox to back it up. If I'm going to take the time to post it all up to show you, then could I get you to promise to look at it and acknowledge what it proves?

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I'd wait for a real life scenario before claiming the winner.
Ask your guy to re-do it from a standing start and ask him to post a vbox file. We've got plenty of cars to compare against if you can get some better data on this car. I don't care about the results one way or the other, I just like seeing a good race.
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      08-09-2013, 01:12 PM   #26
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Technically, if you are looking at the equation only, then yes, the momentum is the same. However, you forget about the inertia. The car under steady speed has no acceleration and thus, has to break its inertia to accelerate. The car accelerating does not have that problem.
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      08-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Quote:
Originally Posted by and1313 View Post
Technically, if you are looking at the equation only, then yes, the momentum is the same. However, you forget about the inertia. The car under steady speed has no acceleration and thus, has to break its inertia to accelerate. The car accelerating does not have that problem.
We are talking about 30mph with the race starting at 80mph. At this point inertia is meaningless. We are not talking about a car starting at 30mph and the other car starting from 0.
It doesn't matter. Inertia is present whenever an object is in equilibrium. The car in steady state is in equilibrium because there is 0 resultant force.
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      08-09-2013, 01:23 PM   #28
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This is such an easy concept to understand and replicate. Velocity is 80mph but acceleration is 0 on one of the cars while the other is positive.

Get both videos and look at the rpm of both at the start point End of story.

Plutonium- Next time you are driving please replicate this scenario with a friend in another car while on the phone. Post your results below.

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 08-09-2013 at 01:37 PM..
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      08-09-2013, 01:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Rpm's is a whole different argument and has nothing to do with momentum.

We are arguing because that is what we do.


I need at least one hand on the wheel, I always have a beer in the other hand, so I won't be able to replicate this while holding a phone. It's just not safe.

Glad you said it.
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      08-09-2013, 03:04 PM   #30
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I will actually be racing at the Houston Grand Prix when the next AirStrip Attack is, so I will unfortunately not be able to attend (Was seriously looking forward to it) Any other Gen2 Level3s in CA?
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      08-09-2013, 03:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Rpm's is a whole different argument and has nothing to do with momentum.

We are arguing because that is what we do.

I need at least one hand on the wheel, I always have a beer in the other hand, so I won't be able to replicate this while holding a phone. It's just not safe.
Hold my beer and watch this.......
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      08-09-2013, 03:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
I will actually be racing at the Houston Grand Prix when the next AirStrip Attack is, so I will unfortunately not be able to attend (Was seriously looking forward to it) Any other Gen2 Level3s in CA?
We have a couple level 2's and some level 3's roaming around Cali now.
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      08-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #33
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Does AA level 3 mean a LC motor + higher boost like Ess VT3?
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      08-09-2013, 07:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Now you know where it comes from...
LMAO
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      08-09-2013, 08:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlsGarage View Post
Does AA level 3 mean a LC motor + higher boost like Ess VT3?
Stock internals

The Level 3 system includes a water/methanol injection system with upgraded pulley and custom software.

93 Octane/98 Ron or 91 Octane
HFC/No Cat Mid Section Recommended

Key Features:

AA E9X M3 Supercharger Plenum with Eight High-flow Velocity stacks
Rotrex C38-92 Supercharger
AA Blow Off Valves & Bypass Valve
Dedicated Belt Drive System (does not share belt with accessories)
Eight-Rib Pulley System
Eight High-capacity Bosch Motorsport Fuel Injectors
AA Performance Software for the MSS60 ECU with available upgrades and off road options
CNC Hard Anodized Brackets and Hardware
AA Front-mount Air to Air Intercooler
Independent Supercharger Oil Cooler
Longlife Traction Fluid for Rotrex C38-92 Supercharger
Cold Air Intake Box
AA Oil Breather System
New Oil Line with A/N Fitting System
High Performance AA Spec Filter
Spark Plugs
All mounting hardware (plumbing, hoses and clamps) included
Detailed, step-by-step installation manual
All installation hardware included
Two-year unlimited mileage warranty



Performance Specs:

Boost: 9 psi
Horsepower: 700 HP
Torque: 480 Ft Lbs
numbers may vary depending on weather,conditions,etc
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      08-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
Stock internals

The Level 3 system includes a water/methanol injection system with upgraded pulley and custom software.

93 Octane/98 Ron or 91 Octane
HFC/No Cat Mid Section Recommended

Key Features:

AA E9X M3 Supercharger Plenum with Eight High-flow Velocity stacks
Rotrex C38-92 Supercharger
AA Blow Off Valves & Bypass Valve
Dedicated Belt Drive System (does not share belt with accessories)
Eight-Rib Pulley System
Eight High-capacity Bosch Motorsport Fuel Injectors
AA Performance Software for the MSS60 ECU with available upgrades and off road options
CNC Hard Anodized Brackets and Hardware
AA Front-mount Air to Air Intercooler
Independent Supercharger Oil Cooler
Longlife Traction Fluid for Rotrex C38-92 Supercharger
Cold Air Intake Box
AA Oil Breather System
New Oil Line with A/N Fitting System
High Performance AA Spec Filter
Spark Plugs
All mounting hardware (plumbing, hoses and clamps) included
Detailed, step-by-step installation manual
All installation hardware included
Two-year unlimited mileage warranty



Performance Specs:

Boost: 9 psi
Horsepower: 700 HP
Torque: 480 Ft Lbs
numbers may vary depending on weather,conditions,etc
Sounds like a Ess VT2-650 Rival!!

A run against eacher other could be a good idea.. 650 runs 8psi and no meth though..
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      08-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlsGarage View Post
Does AA level 3 mean a LC motor + higher boost like Ess VT3?
Like Drake said all of our kits levels 1-3 can be ran on stock internals. We recommend an engine build if you want to push it further than what our level 3 kit offers.

All of our level 3 kits have been extremely consistent in different climates and run within 10-15 whp of each other. This is why we chose to integrate a meth system. Not for power but for consistency.

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 08-09-2013 at 09:08 PM..
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      08-09-2013, 09:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
This is such an easy concept to understand and replicate. Velocity is 80mph but acceleration is 0 on one of the cars while the other is positive.
Andrew, that's not true. The Active car hit the gas at 74MPH and the "race" started at 80MPH. So acceleration wasn't 0 at the begnning of the race.

Quote:
Get both videos and look at the rpm of both at the start point End of story.
Good catch, nobody noticed that before. There's no need to make this sound like it was intentional. Everybody makes simple mistakes all the time -- like saying momentum is a physics force that affects the outcome of a race (which it does not). If there were bad intentions, then the race could have started at 120KPH instead of 130KPH when the AA car was under boost and full acceration. If anybody had noticed the cars were in different gears, he would have made sure that was equal as well. Like I said, I don't care who wins the race, I just want to see the race.

Here's the updated video that fixes the gear starting issue. Even though the other races were DCT vs. 6MT, they were changed as well to make them as close to the same starting RPM as each other. I hope this is good enough, and I hope one of your cars shows up at the next Shift-Sector event.



Quote:
We have a couple level 2's and some level 3's roaming around Cali now.
Yeah I hear boostedM's AA S2-L3+Meth was sold and ended up in California. That's the car with the damaged engine. Not sure what the plans are, but would be nice to see a fresh motor in this car and ready for the shift sector event.
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      08-10-2013, 02:15 AM   #39
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I know BoostedM's kit is being applied at AutoTalent the same week mine is being installed (the week of the 19th)
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