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      01-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieAces
Sad that the Z4 will stop production but pretty amped that the Z3 is back. Not sure how i feel about a Toyota version though..
There will be a Z5 to replace it don't you worry.
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      01-21-2014, 03:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
4C scared the crap out of a lot of premium brands I bet ... i.e. P Cayman being one
Yeah, especially when Alfa said they were trying to get the MSRP under $60k. Too bad it looks like they won't hit that I've heard rumors ranging from $70k to upwards of $80k when they finally make their way back to our shores (eff you, Fiat!).

I think the 4C might end up dead on arrival; a victim of being early to market. Even with excellent handling, the buyer's market north of $70k is just too competitive for the poor little Alfa.
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      01-21-2014, 03:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
I came into this thread expecting a nice post about the title of the thread. Instead, I came in to read an incoherent, disjointed mess of statements and text, only loosely related to either the title, or even each other.

#disappointment
Cut the guy some slack. English obviously isn't his first language.
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      01-21-2014, 03:08 PM   #26
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Couple of questions that I hope you can answer.

1) Will a Z3M be considered after the launch of the Z3?
2) At this time, is there a possibility that any M car in the near future will be N/A again?
3) Will the Z3 be considered a Cayman S competitor?
And lastly:
4) Is there a 'track-ready' M3/4 coming in the next 2-3 years? I really think BMW should consider to make a lower cost alternative(~$100k) to the GT3 and the have the ability to sell it USA as well. PLEASE. (If it came with a manual and 'almost' as fast around any track as the GT3, you can bet your balls it'll be a winner)
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      01-21-2014, 03:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
This is really remarkable. IMO, the single most exciting thing in automotive development over the next 5 years will be mass reduction. It's easy to forget how great a low mass car is, because we rarely get the opportunity to drive any. I recommend everyone pay their local Mazda dealer a visit once every couple of years to drive a Miata. It's absolutely mind blowing to experience the difference between a 3300+ lb car and a 2500 lb car.

There is a substantial amount of irony playing out here. Enthusiasts, after years and years of watching cars get fatter and fatter, will finally get slimmer cars because of tightened fuel economy standards. Ha!
Agreed. Or drive an E30.
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      01-21-2014, 03:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
I came into this thread expecting a nice post about the title of the thread. Instead, I came in to read an incoherent, disjointed mess of statements and text, only loosely related to either the title, or even each other.

#disappointment
Yes.
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      01-21-2014, 03:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
By this time there will be the Competition Package for the M3 and M4 and there will also be progress for the two cars in an additional specification.
Additional specification?
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      01-21-2014, 03:58 PM   #30
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Toyota will co-develop the next Z4 to be designated Z3 with BMW.

BMW will be more of a sports car. Design influenced by Vision ConnectedDrive Concept car. Design will reflect the technology and advanced aspect of the new car. Technical , and futuristic.

Roadster (BMW) : Coupe (Toyota) at first but their will be an additional Coupe and Roadster for both brands.

Individual design.
Individual characters , both manufacturers will develop their own chassis.

front-engine, rear-drive layout of the current Z4. But a greater approach to weight reduction innovation.

Relatively no high increase in price over the current Z4.

Folding hard top ditched for soft top. Emphasis on weight reduction.

The basic body and chassis design by BMW.
Based upon extensive Carbon fibre innovation shown with the BMW i3 and i8 and the all new generation of 7er.
BMW developed Carbon fibre tub and chassis , key elements such as suspension arms fabricated from CFRP , aluminium A structure and chassis section.
Boot lid and bonnet lid Constructed from Carbon Fibre.

Toyota developed second generation plug-in hybrid technology. More advanced interpretation of the current Toyota Hybrid System II with energy storage capacitor for revolutionary performance eDrive model and Toyota hybrid Drive model.

Engines will be from BMW. Four and Six cylinders.

To be the first car in its segment to offer innovation , performance and efficiency , features expected of a super sports car at half the price.

BMW M. Variants possible.
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      01-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #31
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So...will the Z3 get 4 doors then?
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      01-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
I came into this thread expecting a nice post about the title of the thread. Instead, I came in to read an incoherent, disjointed mess of statements and text, only loosely related to either the title, or even each other.

#disappointment
I think this was lifted from the M2 rumors thread--might be why it seems a little out of whack...
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      01-21-2014, 04:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Why the odd-number designation (3)? Aren't all coupes (two-door chassis) supposed to be even numbered?
Well Z models will obviously be exemted from that, no point in playing by these rules in roadster territory.
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      01-21-2014, 04:08 PM   #34
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Great news, thanks for sharing!
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      01-21-2014, 04:30 PM   #35
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Let me get this straight. They are going to go to the trouble of creating a carbon fiber tub to save weight... and then they are going to put in a hybrid system that will all but eliminate any weight savings made from using carbon fiber.

And thats before BMWNA gets their hands on the standard equipment sheet.


Or is that only for a single model (i.e. not all of the Z3's will have the hybrid bullshit?)
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      01-21-2014, 04:41 PM   #36
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Great news!! Especially the bits concerning the M2
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      01-21-2014, 04:44 PM   #37
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So is it going to be called Z4 or Z3?

I'm all for fuel efficiency (my most recent fill up netted 15.23 mpg), but not at the expense of performance.
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      01-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYON View Post
Couple of questions that I hope you can answer.

1) Will a Z3M be considered after the launch of the Z3?
2) At this time, is there a possibility that any M car in the near future will be N/A again?
3) Will the Z3 be considered a Cayman S competitor?
And lastly:
4) Is there a 'track-ready' M3/4 coming in the next 2-3 years? I really think BMW should consider to make a lower cost alternative(~$100k) to the GT3 and the have the ability to sell it USA as well. PLEASE. (If it came with a manual and 'almost' as fast around any track as the GT3, you can bet your balls it'll be a winner)
1. Anything is possible.
2. No.
3. It depends on what level. Of course you want to but we have yet to see what Porsche plan to do with the next generation.
4. They are developing a Motorsport derived M4 as there will be a DTM car unveiled prior to Geneva. As for production?
There will be progression much later ( the cars are not even on the market yet) for both Sedan and Coupe but what direction these will take is not known and whether or not they come to the USA depends on federalisation issues.
One thing is certain progression will be M- DCT only.
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      01-21-2014, 04:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Let me get this straight. They are going to go to the trouble of creating a carbon fiber tub to save weight... and then they are going to put in a hybrid system that will all but eliminate any weight savings made from using carbon fiber.

And thats before BMWNA gets their hands on the standard equipment sheet.


Or is that only for a single model (i.e. not all of the Z3's will have the hybrid bullshit?)
The eDrive single model only will be plug-in hybrid.
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      01-21-2014, 04:50 PM   #40
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Question:

Does BMW manufacture the electric motors for any of its hybrid or pure E-drive cars?

If the answer is 'no', when will BMW begin to manufacture its own?
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      01-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The eDrive single model only will be plug-in hybrid.

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      01-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Scott, are there still plans for an up-market Z5?

Also, is G30 the code for the new 5-series?
Yes Z5 will effectively replace the Z4 and retain the folding hard top.

G30 is the new 5er.
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      01-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYON View Post
Couple of questions that I hope you can answer.

1) Will a Z3M be considered after the launch of the Z3?
2) At this time, is there a possibility that any M car in the near future will be N/A again?
3) Will the Z3 be considered a Cayman S competitor?
And lastly:
4) Is there a 'track-ready' M3/4 coming in the next 2-3 years? I really think BMW should consider to make a lower cost alternative(~$100k) to the GT3 and the have the ability to sell it USA as well. PLEASE. (If it came with a manual and 'almost' as fast around any track as the GT3, you can bet your balls it'll be a winner)
1. Anything is possible.
2. No.
3. It depends on what level. Of course you want to but we have yet to see what Porsche plan to do with the next generation.
4. They are developing a Motorsport derived M4 as there will be a DTM car unveiled prior to Geneva. As for production?
There will be progression much later ( the cars are not even on the market yet) for both Sedan and Coupe but what direction these will take is not known and whether or not they come to the USA depends on federalisation issues.
One thing is certain progression will be M- DCT only.
Get your manual BMW while you still can!

All this carbon talk makes me wonder about the next M3. Should I wait another 7 years, or buy one now?
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      01-21-2014, 05:33 PM   #44
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Don't think that being a hybrid is a detriment to max performance, depending on how it is done. The instant torque of an electric motor can easily make the power delivery more instantaneous and forceful than just a normally powered vehicle. Especially when you're dealing with a smaller engine that likely has a turbocharger...it takes some time for that to spool up, while it takes no time for the electric motor. So, combining the two is really the best of both worlds. There are tradeoffs based on how far you want to be able to go on pure electric, if that's possible at all. And, with the addition of super capacitors, even the lag on an electric motor only using batteries gets smaller since you can dump power from the capacitors much faster both in and out verses moving it in or out of a battery.

In any design, there are tradeoffs, and you can optimize it for whichever characteristics you wish...sounds like with the addition of the capacitor, they've optimized it for performance.

Making the overall basic chassis lighter and stronger has benefits across the board and gives you more options.

The world is changing, failing to understand what's happening and making assumptions is fraught with misconceived expectations. It's good to be living in this time.
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