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      08-06-2013, 10:54 PM   #1
DrakeKemper
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      08-06-2013, 11:07 PM   #2
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From what ive seen and read Pound For Pound of boost, ESS just makes more power, plain and simple.
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      08-06-2013, 11:55 PM   #3
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they run the same boost compared to same hp kits besides the AA lvl 3 witch doesn't have a comparable kit soo .... story
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibmike View Post
From what ive seen and read Pound For Pound of boost, ESS just makes more power, plain and simple.
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      08-07-2013, 12:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
I found this video on YouTube in which is supposed to be a comparison of an Active Autowerke Gen2 Level3 VS two ESS supercharged cars.

HOWEVER, when the video starts you can obviously plainly see that the AA car is at a constant RPM waiting to accelerate, and the ESS car is wide open accelerating and in boost the whole time.

I think whoever made this comparo needs to do this again but with equal runs whether wide open or constant RPMs before accelerating.

Bring your car to the next shift-s3ctor event and run an ESS, Gintani or VF setup and find out.

While interesting and fun, comparing speedo's isn't 100% accurate anyway and you do bring up a good point, but really the only run that is questionable is the first one, the 2nd and 3rd are obvious outcomes. The runs start at 130KPH, the AA car is at ~120KPH when it goes WOT. If he started the comparo later at 140KPH I doubt it would change the outcome that much, either way they look fairly close in that first race.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
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      08-07-2013, 01:03 AM   #5
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i only like to compare cars when they are under same conditions
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      08-07-2013, 02:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
I found this video on YouTube in which is supposed to be a comparison of an Active Autowerke Gen2 Level3 VS two ESS supercharged cars.

HOWEVER, when the video starts you can obviously plainly see that the AA car is at a constant RPM waiting to accelerate, and the ESS car is wide open accelerating and in boost the whole time.

I think whoever made this comparo needs to do this again but with equal runs whether wide open or constant RPMs before accelerating.

Bring your car to the next shift-s3ctor event and run an ESS or VF setup and find out.

While interesting and fun, comparing speedo's isn't 100% accurate anyway and you do bring up a good point, but really the only run that is questionable is the first one, the 2nd and 3rd are obvious outcomes. The runs start at 130KPH, the AA car is at ~120KPH when it goes WOT. If he started the comparo later at 140KPH I doubt it would change the outcome that much, either way they look fairly close in that first race.
Or a Gintani car we'll be there!!!!
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      08-07-2013, 02:51 AM   #7
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I just feel like thats like having two identical ferraris racing to 150, one starting at 80MPH, and one getting a run from zero accelerating through 80. The one freely accelerating will clearly win.
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      08-07-2013, 09:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@Gintani.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakeKemper View Post
I found this video on YouTube in which is supposed to be a comparison of an Active Autowerke Gen2 Level3 VS two ESS supercharged cars.

HOWEVER, when the video starts you can obviously plainly see that the AA car is at a constant RPM waiting to accelerate, and the ESS car is wide open accelerating and in boost the whole time.

I think whoever made this comparo needs to do this again but with equal runs whether wide open or constant RPMs before accelerating.

Bring your car to the next shift-s3ctor event and run an ESS or VF setup and find out.

While interesting and fun, comparing speedo's isn't 100% accurate anyway and you do bring up a good point, but really the only run that is questionable is the first one, the 2nd and 3rd are obvious outcomes. The runs start at 130KPH, the AA car is at ~120KPH when it goes WOT. If he started the comparo later at 140KPH I doubt it would change the outcome that much, either way they look fairly close in that first race.
Or a Gintani car we'll be there!!!!
Will you be there with the twin turbo car!?
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      08-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@Gintani.com
Or a Gintani car we'll be there!!!!
Sorry about that Alex, Fixed!
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ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
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      08-08-2013, 02:16 PM   #10
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Pretty poor comparison if you ask me but A for effort... A car acceleration for 30+ mph before hand has a clear advantage. Our driver did say a car came in his lane at the end there (high beam flash) and he let off for a sec which is why it stopped accelerating for a second at the end there.

Vbox or a good old fashion rolling race is the the only trustworthy way.

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 08-08-2013 at 02:31 PM..
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      08-08-2013, 02:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post
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      08-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Pretty poor comparison if you ask me but A for effort... A car acceleration for 30+ mph before hand has a clear advantage. Our driver did say a car came in his lane at the end there (high beam flash) and he let off for a sec which is why it stopped accelerating for a second at the end there.

Vbox or a good old fashion rolling race is the the only trustworthy way.
Andrew, get a car out to Shift-S3ctor in October and it will have plenty to run.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
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      08-08-2013, 04:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Andrew, get a car out to Shift-S3ctor in October and it will have plenty to run.
C'mon OP Strut your stuff
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      08-08-2013, 04:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
A car acceleration for 30+ mph before hand has a clear advantage.
Why?

The acceleration is the rate of change in velocity, and rate of change of velocity will be the determined by the sum of all forces. On one hand, you have the motor output giving a +force (influenced by air density, etc.). Other forces include road friction, wind resistance, slope, vehicle mass, rotating mass,etc. Momentum is just mass × velocity and is not a force acting on the car. Assuming you can keep everything constant except engine output,then the car under free acceleration shouldn't have anymore advantage than the other car which only started to accelerate 10-20 KPH sooner and is under same boost levels.I'm not a physics guy, but this is the way I understand it.

Maybe one of the physics guys could chime in and explain if I'm right or wrong.

Quote:
Our driver did say a car came in his lane at the end there(high beam flash) and he let off for a sec which is why it stopped accelerating for a second at the end there
Too hard to tell if he let off cuz of the radio playing in the background. Ask your guy if he can re-do the run from very slow to top speed again. Would be nice to see if it makes a difference. And of course if he has a vBox, then we have a program that will recreate the race like this:





Quote:
Vbox or a good old fashion rolling race is the the only trustworthy way.
Agreed.

BTW, I've actually done 60-130 vbox testing with rolling starts vs. "hitting the gas" @ ~50MPH. I wanted to see if the rolling start was faster or not than just punching it. I did the tests all on the same night and all on the same road with the same car. I've
got to admit that my best 60-130 was from a rolling start, but it was by less than 1/10th of a second (0.010) -- which on a 6MT is no real difference at all. I have it all on video vbox so its easy to post and verify the results if requested.

Assuming both cars have the same mass, on the same road road at same day/time,they effectively accelerate the same.
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      08-08-2013, 04:42 PM   #15
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WAIT. I dunno who has done this comparo, the first run is my car speedo.

VT2-600, 6.5 psi YES. but I don't know where the hell he got the 94 octane gas in my tank!!
I was running pure 91 octane pump gas.

MY CAR HAS ONLY DONE 504WHP ON A DYNOJET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT 550WHP as the op has stated!
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      08-08-2013, 05:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlsGarage View Post
WAIT. I dunno who has done this comparo, the first run is my car speedo.

VT2-600, 6.5 psi YES. but I don't know where the hell he got the 94 octane gas in my tank!!
I was running pure 91 octane pump gas.

MY CAR HAS ONLY DONE 504WHP ON A DYNOJET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT 550WHP as the op has stated!


And that first run was against an AA stg3 claiming 600whp and you beat him.
Your car is moving my friend
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      08-09-2013, 02:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
[/COLOR]

And that first run was against an AA stg3 claiming 600whp and you beat him.
Your car is moving my friend
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      08-09-2013, 08:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
[/COLOR]

And that first run was against an AA stg3 claiming 600whp and you beat him.
Your car is moving my friend

A car dynoing 500 > beating the same car dynoing 580 with the same transmission makes absolutely no sense ... What ever makes you guys feel better about your purchase I guess.

This video clearly shows the best comparison of both blowers at the same boost. Both cars running 6.5 psi and the same blower and Psi we use on our level 1 kit..





IMG its common sense that a car in motion will beat a car that is just starting to take off at the same speed. This is physics and does not take an equation to figure out. Try your theory on the street with a slower car flying by you and see how long it takes you to catch up.

I'd wait for a real life scenario before claiming the winner.

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 08-09-2013 at 09:23 AM..
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      08-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I think there is some miscommunication here, can we clarify this?... Are we about a talking car having a head start of 30mph? As I understand it we are talking about a car that was moving and matching up a car that just accelerated, by the time both cars put the hammer down they were even, right? If anything the accelerating car would have the advantage being in a lower gear with roughly the same boost, but most likely it is a wash.

And Andrew, are you trying to make a point about your level 1 kit by using a video of a drag race of the Evolve kit? Even if it is the same boost level as your kit, using a kit from a different company with a different design all together to make a point is some interesting marketing technique.
A car with momentum vs a car with 0 momentum is not a comparable result at all. To make this work you would have to have both cars already accelerating and under full boost.

Yes our kits even though made by a different company are very comparable since we use the same blower make the same boost and make very similar dyno graphs curves.

Wait for a real race before jumping to conclusions. Its bound to happen eventually.

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 08-09-2013 at 10:43 AM..
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      08-09-2013, 11:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Again, I think we need a clarification on this. I understand that the ESS car was going ~30mph previously, but when they both put the hammer down they traveled the same speed, no? The minuscule momentum prior shouldn't affect the equation and formula applied.

I'm not jumping to conclusion, I'm just trying to understand both points in this thread.
The video shows one car doing a rolling start while the car starts accelerating from a steady speed as they hit the same mph. It takes time for boost and momentum to be created to achieve the same acceleration as the other car already has.

Here is the car in the video. 20' Bmw wheels and M5 brake
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      08-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #21
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I understand wanting both cars under boost. But I don't understand the argument about physics and acceleration. Acceleration will be determined by the sum of all forces acting on the car. I'm not aware of any force called "inertia of acceleration" or "momentum." Therefore previous acceleration does not influence the outcome. That's the physics.

But since being under boost does affect the outcome, if 130KPH (12KPH higher than where the car punched the gas) isn't enough to build boost, then what would be the proper amount. What starting speed would have been a better choice?

Last edited by regular guy; 08-09-2013 at 11:32 AM..
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      08-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I think there is some miscommunication here, can we clarify this?... Are we about a talking car having a head start of 30mph? As I understand it we are talking about a car that was moving and matching up a car that just accelerated, by the time both cars put the hammer down they were even, right? If anything the accelerating car would have the advantage being in a lower gear with roughly the same boost, but most likely it is a wash.

And Andrew, are you trying to make a point about your level 1 kit by using a video of a drag race of the Evolve kit? Even if it is the same boost level as your kit, using a kit from a different company with a different design all together to make a point is some interesting marketing technique.
Andrew is the king of "interesting marketing" maybe he is working part time for Evolve now . I have yet to see an AA kit show up and race at any event like shift sector over the past several years. If the kit is as popular as Andrew claims and this magic combination of high boost, air/air and rotrex is so superior why is no one buying it? There are used AA stage 2 kits for sale less than the cost of others stage 1 kits and these AA kits have not been able to sell for months. Maybe Andrew should bring a car to the next shift sector event and run some cars so we can see what happens in some real races.

I keep checking the performance record list for M3's and I still see Vortech powered air /water cooled cars dominating. Until that changes and vendors can actually back up their claims with real records im sure we will continue to see vendors use "interesting marketing" to hype their superchargers TP.
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