F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > M brand being diluted
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-19-2013, 08:19 PM   #23
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
I've never thought of "M" cars as "uber luxury". In fact, I'd say the interior of M cars just barely makes the cut into luxury category (however it may be defined).

Secondly, regarding driving fun, the M cars are kick-ass responsive machines....once you get them into the power range of 3,000 RPM +.

However, they have always sucked in the low end in my opinion. I'm not trolling here, I've been an original owner of both a '02 E46 M3 and currently a '11 E90 M3. The low-end power/torque leaves a lot to be desired. I think the turbos in the new F80 make the entire RPM range kick ass!
Now that's where we differ. While low end TQ can initially be seductive in the long run for me it becomes rather boring compared to an engine that starts off timid and then pulls harder and harder towards a high redline. I find diesels and electric cars with huge TQ boring. I also ride race bikes so I'm used to and prefer peaky engines.

"I've never thought of "M" cars as "uber luxury"." Me neither until the new M5 and M6. Have you driven them? They are definately uber luxurious both in appointments, options and ride. I've driven the GC, vert and coupe. Beautiful,comfy cars.

Last edited by solstice; 10-19-2013 at 08:40 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 09:37 PM   #24
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6360
Rep
6,570
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwen
Please put me in the category of people who are 100% satisfied/excited with the size of the upcoming M3/M4 as it can actually be used as a car for four people.
Yup.

I just tried to put our family of four into the last available new V8 M3, the E93. It was a joke. I knew it would be tight but it wasn't even close. The E90 sedan wasn't much better when we had one for a loaner.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 10:26 PM   #25
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

What will be really great I think is that you'll have the option to drive these new M3/4's in a completely laid back way if you want, i.e. short-shifting on the torque, or go higher in the rev band for more of a thrill when you want to get on it.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 11:13 PM   #26
IS3andME
Major
482
Rep
1,189
Posts

Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
With over 60 % of new BMW automobile sales opting for the M Sport packet I would not say brand dilution. But more as progress. M is much more a commercial entity than it was 10 years ago.
The customer has made BMW M. What it is today.
You said it...in the hiphop world, when someone says that the artist has gone "commercial", it means that they have sold out from their core values and audience and gone for mass market appeal. So, too has M---or as you may call 'commercial' for what it is, "Marketing"...

This will ultimately be M's downfall, as well as BMW.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 11:54 PM   #27
verbs
Captain
77
Rep
665
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Now that's where we differ. While low end TQ can initially be seductive in the long run for me it becomes rather boring compared to an engine that starts off timid and then pulls harder and harder towards a high redline. I find diesels and electric cars with huge TQ boring. I also ride race bikes so I'm used to and prefer peaky engines.
Personal preference. I went from a 2007 335i to a 2008 M5 to a 2013 335i and have a good taste of low end/mid range torque vs. top end monsters.......I find the low end/mid range torque to be more enjoyable for daily driving, where you feel it every time you pass someone, accelerate from a stop light, etc.

It wasn't easy/practical to keep the M5 in the power band for daily driving, and while I did enjoy the top end pull a lot, I rarely got to use it compared to the 335i's low end/mid range. I've also driven the E9x M3 enough and also feel the same way about is as I do the M5.

I'm really looking forward to the new M3- a car that still has the nice pull down low, decent (not killer) top end, all in a lighter package.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 01:59 AM   #28
cc3
Major
622
Rep
1,333
Posts

Drives: 1M, GT4, M2 M140i G40
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: .UK

iTrader: (0)

Well done to BMW with clever marketing. If 60% of sales have an M tag that's a big bonus to profit given the basic MSport does little more than add some beefed up bumpers, a better steering wheel, so nice wheels and slightly better seats. Net cost to BMW must be pennies over basic car but they add 10% to the price!!
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 03:15 AM   #29
flea333
Lieutenant
flea333's Avatar
United_States
74
Rep
490
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
I agree -- what's dumb is how the 2014's all basically look like the E92 M3 from the front. Is there really need for the huge ass intakes for the regular 3 series? Stupid trick to look sporty. Anyway, all the 2014's will look like the E92 M3 with a few more straight lines. That definitely dilutes the look of the brand anyway. When you pay an extra $20k, you want it to look like it. Some fool driving a 320 shouldn't look like the M4. I think M5 is great and E92 M3 is great. We'll see about M4.
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 04:44 AM   #30
rjd598
Banned
United_States
1770
Rep
6,696
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
You can't really say that the m135i and m235i are diluting the M brand. The m135i is loved by so many and the m235i looks great on paper. Only time will tell if it lives up to the expectations. M sport...yea that's diluting the brand but I don't blame BMW. It's called making money...on a global scale
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 06:41 AM   #31
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16949
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

All I have to say...
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 08:39 AM   #32
bm323
Captain
194
Rep
850
Posts

Drives: 12.2 E92 M3 ZCP; 12.7 C63
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sg

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
And for the "this bitching happens everytime a new car comes along", maybe it does but I've driven BMWs since the 1980s and this is the first time I don't much like anything in BMWs lineup. In the past I've liked pretty much everything since the 2002.

Why don't you redline the F10 M5 and let us know whether it's peaky ... I recall you said that your last car, E60 535i was sporty and you liked it. Isn't that turbo and the redline lower? And you're not into tracking cars?

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=27

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/10/19/dt...hassis-bmw-m4/

Last edited by bm323; 10-20-2013 at 08:49 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #33
verbs
Captain
77
Rep
665
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz26 View Post
Well done to BMW with clever marketing. If 60% of sales have an M tag that's a big bonus to profit given the basic MSport does little more than add some beefed up bumpers, a better steering wheel, so nice wheels and slightly better seats. Net cost to BMW must be pennies over basic car but they add 10% to the price!!
That's where you're wrong. The M-sport cars have additional drivetrain cooling that the other F30 335i cars don't, and are the only 335i cars that can get the PPK kit with it's extra power.

They also come with better brakes/calipers (depending on where you're at), and upgraded rear tries (255mm in the rear vs. 225mm on all other lines).

Also the only 335i line that allows you go order the gorgeous Estoril Blue II color.

I know I'm missing additional differences....
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #34
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5305
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
You said it...in the hiphop world, when someone says that the artist has gone "commercial", it means that they have sold out from their core values and audience and gone for mass market appeal. So, too has M---or as you may call 'commercial' for what it is, "Marketing"...

This will ultimately be M's downfall, as well as BMW.
Yes but in the automobile industry there is no room to remain select. You are not just aiming to appease 1 customer you have to satisfy many. That is the reason for our success. Each vehicle stands for a customer and in BMWs case the customer did not exist until the right car came along.

The current BMW portfolio is consistent. It symbolises a range of vehicles for each customer in each market either by engine type , model , vehicle segment and especially now sustainable mobility. BMW offers customers perhaps the most original driver focused vehicles on the market.

And it advises a solution to what can be a future problem especially when you consider proposals for further legislation.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 01:48 PM   #35
wisesoul
Savoir Faire
wisesoul's Avatar
Philippines
74
Rep
1,772
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
I agree -- what's dumb is how the 2014's all basically look like the E92 M3 from the front. Is there really need for the huge ass intakes for the regular 3 series? Stupid trick to look sporty. Anyway, all the 2014's will look like the E92 M3 with a few more straight lines. That definitely dilutes the look of the brand anyway. When you pay an extra $20k, you want it to look like it. Some fool driving a 320 shouldn't look like the M4. I think M5 is great and E92 M3 is great. We'll see about M4.
This has been going on since the E46 ZHP and E39 540i M sport, hell, the E36 M3 didn't look that different from the base E36s. Just remember, what makes M exclusive is first how they drive, not how they look. Aesthetics are always important, but M never made radically different looking vehicles from the non M lineup anyways.
__________________
Current: Alpine White F10 M5|H&R springs|12mm/10mm spacers|Eisenmann Race
Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3|MTM 10mm spacers|Hotchkis rear sway bar|APR Stage 1|Milltek Catless|RNS-E|Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel
Sold:E46 323i
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #36
MWM3
Banned
41
Rep
206
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

all M everythanggg
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #37
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
the M3 is like a supertanker compared to a 1M.
Well, more like 6% heavier including driver... Yes one can feel it but that some pretty serious hyperbole.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #38
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW offers customers perhaps the most original driver focused vehicles on the market.
Whatever BMW Marketing says...

The only way this becomes remotely true is if you add the qualifier of also having a typical German luxury and attention to details. And of course only if you eliminate Porsche and all exotics from the comparison...
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 05:48 PM   #39
dhoggm3
Major
dhoggm3's Avatar
United_States
269
Rep
1,281
Posts

Drives: 850i C, Gated R8 5.2, E63
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central PA

iTrader: (1)

How'd we get stuck with this thread?
__________________
M850i Vert with RaceChip
E46 M3, Euro Headers, Rasp Pipe, Kassel Tune
Alpina B8, zero performance mods
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 06:49 PM   #40
templarklimek
templarklimek
United_States
141
Rep
868
Posts

Drives: 15' X6M, 12' R8 V10,
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

I understand the OP's point. I found a 1 owner Z4m with 23k miles on it as I wanted a 2-seater "pure" sports car. something that creates a more pure, visceral driving experience. NOW, at the same time I traded my E92 M3 for an X6M as the Z4M provides me that sports cars desire(miss the S65 motor though). So I have both worlds.

I don't mind the heavier M cars we now have but BMW should not neglect the core reason for M cars. Raw driving pleasure. They have room for both.

The M2 and maybe the Z5 will focus on that basic M car.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 08:21 PM   #41
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

What we need is more options so that BMW can get relief from the more hard core driving enthusiasts and thrive in their new mass market approach without the whining from enthusiasts who feel abandoned. Porsche which is now what BMW used to be should soon provide relief in form of a smaller 4 seater where many of us can migrate just a few years from now ( those of us lucky enough to afford M cars ). Until then these kind of threads will continue since Audi, Benz and Lexus never have and likely never will be good enough alternatives.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #42
bjayfan
Private First Class
9
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 2014 F13 M6
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Porsche which is now what BMW used to be...
Your kidding, right?

Volkswagen owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT and Skoda. Very different times.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #43
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Your kidding, right?

Volkswagen owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT and Skoda. Very different times.
What BMW cars used to be not the company. Who cares about the company, it's the cars that matters. Just a few models each the undisputable driver's choice in it's segment. I can hardly wait for the new sedan. I used to desire every BMW in the lineup just as I desire every car in Porsche's lineup. Porsche is the new BMW in my books.

Last edited by solstice; 10-20-2013 at 09:47 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #44
bjayfan
Private First Class
9
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 2014 F13 M6
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
What BMW cars used to be not the company. Who cares about the company, it's the cars that matters. Just a few models each the undisputable driver's choice in it's segment. I can hardly wait for the new sedan. I used to desire every BMW in the lineup just as I desire every car in Porsche's lineup. Porsche is the new BMW in my books.
I understand what your saying, but ignoring the reality of the business behind the industry is what fuels these threads.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST