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      06-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #309
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Can this get any weirder?

http://nypost.com/2014/06/07/no-refo...tmo-detainees/
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      06-12-2014, 04:37 PM   #310
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In keeping with his perfect track record of never being right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tLteUGkvpOc
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      06-12-2014, 06:26 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
In keeping with his perfect track record of never being right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tLteUGkvpOc
True enough, at least in this case.

But you can't have it both ways. The debacle in Iraq was completely forseeable at the time Bush invaded. Saddam was a bad guy, but he was the fierce enemy of both terrorists and Iran. So, we sacrificed 4000 brave soldiers lives, ruined the lives of ten of thousands of others, damaged their families, and spent a trillion dollars. For less than nothing. Our national security was grievously harmed by taking Saddam out.

Iraq under Saddam was many things, but it wasn't dominated by terrorists. Now it is. That's on Bush. He took out Saddam to supposedly finish the job his father had the wisdom not to finish. Bad idea, does not even begin to describe it.
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      06-12-2014, 06:59 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
True enough, at least in this case.

But you can't have it both ways. The debacle in Iraq was completely forseeable at the time Bush invaded. Saddam was a bad guy, but he was the fierce enemy of both terrorists and Iran. So, we sacrificed 4000 brave soldiers lives, ruined the lives of ten of thousands of others, damaged their families, and spent a trillion dollars. For less than nothing. Our national security was grievously harmed by taking Saddam out.

Iraq under Saddam was many things, but it wasn't dominated by terrorists. Now it is. That's on Bush. He took out Saddam to supposedly finish the job his father had the wisdom not to finish. Bad idea, does not even begin to describe it.
The Wall Street Journal disagrees with you:

"The [Obama] Administration's policy of strategic neglect toward Iraq has created a situation where al Qaeda effectively controls territories stretching for hundreds of miles through Anbar Province and into Syria. It will likely become worse for Iraq as the Assad regime consolidates its gains in Syria and gives ISIS an incentive to seek its gains further east. It will also have consequences for the territorial integrity of Iraq, as the Kurds consider independence for their already autonomous and relatively prosperous region.

All this should serve as a warning to what we can expect in Afghanistan as the Administration replays its Iraq strategy of full withdrawal after 2016. It should also serve as a reminder of the magnitude of the strategic blunder of leaving no U.S. forces in Iraq after the country finally had a chance to serve as a new anchor of stability and U.S. influence in the region. An Iraqi army properly aided by U.S. air power would not have collapsed as it did in Mosul.

In withdrawing from Iraq in toto, Mr. Obama put his desire to have a talking point for his re-election campaign above America's strategic interests. Now we and the world are facing this reality: A civil war in Iraq and the birth of a terrorist haven that has the confidence, and is fast acquiring the means, to raise a banner for a new generation of jihadists, both in Iraq and beyond."


http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-f...sul-1402442628


EDIT: And this prisoner, released by the Obama Administration in 2009, is now a leader of the terrorists overthrowing the Iraqi government:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...et-him-go.html

Glad Obama did the Bergdahl swap - maybe he will just kick loose the rest of the Girl Scouts in Gitmo - what could go wrong?
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      06-12-2014, 10:35 PM   #313
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It never ends with this current administration. On one side - five battle-hardened terrorists, men who live for killing Americans and returning the Taliban to power. On the other side - one U.S. soldier who unquestionably deserted his unit in eastern Afghanistan. Would you have made the deal? When pollsters put that question to military veterans, 68% said President Obama made the wrong decision, while just 16% endorsed the swap.

Let's be very clear. Bowe Bergdahl was not a prisoner of war captured on the battlefield. And to be even more clear, he did not serve with "honor and distinction," as claimed by serial prevaricator Susan Rice. Ms. Rice is aggressively stupid, immaculately clueless, and a disgrace to our system of government. I mean, by Rice's definition, Bradley Manning and Benedict Arnold also served with "honor and distinction."

Of all the scandals and controversies enveloping the White House, this one could be the most damaging of all. President Obama's admirers in the media, which means pretty much everybody, have studiously avoided delving into Benghazi or the IRS. But in recent weeks even some on the far left have been criticizing their guy - first for the V.A. fiasco and now for this questionable-at-best swap.

Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel testified on Wednesday that the deal had to be made quickly, that there wasn't time enough to notify Congress. He also assured legislators that the five scoundrels will be kept under a watchful eye in Qatar for the next year. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton has declared that the Taliban five "are not a threat to the United States." She doesn't know that, no one knows that, which is why so many Americans are giving this deal two thumbs down. (As an aside, a State Department spokeswoman actually referred to the Taliban killers as "gentlemen.")

As for Bergdahl, the Obama administration has claimed that he was in poor health, lingering at death's doorstep. But doctors who examined the sergeant in Germany and Afghanistan say he is physically fine. His psychological state is another matter, and no one should dismiss the possibility that Bergdahl suffered brutal treatment during his five years in captivity. We all should cut him some slack in that regard.

But we should also respect the opinions of Bergdahl's former platoon mates, who are unanimous in their opinion that he is, pure and simple, a deserter. The New York Times shamefully tried to discredit those honorable soldiers and their former unit, but most clear-thinking Americans aren't fooled by the Times' smear tactics.

The Taliban is in some ways similar to Hitler's Nazi Party. Both believe their ideology gives them the right to murder civilians and commit crimes against humanity. So let's go back in time 70 years for a thought exercise: Soon after D-Day, the U.S. Army captures and imprisons Goering, Himmler, Goebbels, Rohm, and Eichmann. Would FDR or Truman trade those five evildoers for, say, the notorious World War II deserter Pvt. Eddie Slovik. Of course not. The comparison is imperfect, but the truth is that we released five dangerous war criminals in exchange for one man who may well wind up in the stockade at Fort Leavenworth.

Make no mistake, the Taliban poses a grave danger to Afghanistan, the region, and even the world. They will stop at nothing to impose their vision of an oppressive Islamic state. And now this evil organization has five of its best and brightest walking free, perhaps anticipating future battles against the infidels.

President Obama, as commander-in-chief, has an obligation to protect this country from harm, but freeing five notorious war criminals does just the opposite. This whole fiasco is a huge victory for the jihadists and will inspire even more violence in the world.
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      06-13-2014, 12:34 PM   #314
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Unhappy

The above defies history, discussed in detail below. Iraq was never going to work. It was a violent mess from its formation by Great Britain in 1932, disparate groups forced together who have always hated each other, Sunnis, Shias, Kurds. They fought endless wars.

Since 1979, it was held together by brute force, a strongman dictator Saddam, who we basically put in charge. I suppose an option after we overthrew him would have been to substitute a major permanent US military presence. Which is clearly what the Wall Street Journal is suggesting. There, thankfully, would have been no popular support for that.

I could quote Bush's silly predictions of a new democracy in Iraq endlessly. It was never going to happen. Iraq would have descended into the chaos it has always been, no matter when we left. A year ago, five years from now, whenever.

The only benefit from this sorry mess is that, hopefully, the American people will never again support a war of our choice. Now some history, amply demonstrating how Iraq never did work, history that was totally ignored by Bush.

"Establishment of Arab Sunni domination in Iraq was followed by Assyrian, Yazidi and Shi'a unrests, which were all brutally suppressed. In 1936, the first military coup took place in the Kingdom of Iraq, as Bakr Sidqi succeeded in replacing the acting Prime Minister with his associate. Multiple coups followed in a period of political instability, peaking in 1941.

During World War II, Iraqi regime of Regent 'Abd al-Ilah was overthrown in 1941 by the Golden Square officers, headed by Rashid Ali. The short lived pro-Nazi government of Iraq was defeated in May 1941 by the allied forces in Anglo-Iraqi War.

In 1945, Iraq joined the United Nations and became a founding member of the Arab League. At the same time, the Kurdish leader Mustafa Barzani led a rebellion against the central government in Baghdad. After the failure of the uprising Barzani and his followers fled to the Soviet Union.

In 1948, massive violent protests, known as the Al-Wathbah uprising broke out across Baghdad as a popular demand against the government treaty with the British, and with communist part support. More protests continued in spring, but were interrupted in May, with the marshal law, when Iraq entered the 1948 Arab-Israeli War along with other members of the Arab League.

In February 1958, King Hussein of Jordan and `Abd al-Ilāh proposed a union of Hāshimite monarchies to counter the recently formed Egyptian-Syrian union. The prime minister Nuri as-Said wanted Kuwait to be part of the proposed Arab-Hāshimite Union. Shaykh `Abd-Allāh as-Salīm, the ruler of Kuwait, was invited to Baghdad to discuss Kuwait's future. This policy brought the government of Iraq into direct conflict with Britain, which did not want to grant independence to Kuwait. At that point, the monarchy found itself completely isolated. Nuri as-Said was able to contain the rising discontent only by resorting to even greater political oppression.

Inspired by Nasser, officers from the Nineteenth Brigade, 3rd Division known as "The Four Colonials", under the leadership of Brigadier Abd al-Karīm Qāsim (known as "az-Za`īm", 'the leader') and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif overthrew the Hashimite monarchy on July 14, 1958. The new government proclaimed Iraq to be a republic and rejected the idea of a union with Jordan. Iraq's activity in the Baghdad Pact ceased.

In 1961, Kuwait gained independence from Britain and Iraq claimed sovereignty over Kuwait. A period of considerable instability followed. The same year, Mustafa Barzani, who had been invited to return to Iraq by Qasim three years earlier, began engaging Iraqi government forces and establishing Kurdish control in the north in what was the beginning of the First Kurdish Iraqi War.

Qāsim was assassinated in February 1963, when the Ba'ath Party took power under the leadership of General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr (prime minister) and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif (president). In June 1963, Syria, which meanwhile had also fell under Ba'athist rule, took part in the Iraqi military campaign against the Kurds by providing aircraft, armoured vehicles and a force of 6,000 soldiers. Several months later, `Abd as-Salam Muhammad `Arif led a successful coup against the Ba'ath government. Arif declared a ceasefire in February 1964 which provoked a split among Kurdish urban radicals on one hand and Peshmerga (Freedom fighters) forces led by Barzani on the other.

On April 13, 1966, President Abdul Salam Arif died in a helicopter crash and was succeeded by his brother, General Abdul Rahman Arif. Following the unexpected death of Arif, whereupon he was replaced by his brother, Abdul Rahman Arif, the Iraqi government launched a last-ditch effort to defeat the Kurds. This campaign failed in May 1966, when Barzani forces thoroughly defeated the Iraqi Army at the Battle of Mount Handrin, near Rawanduz. Following the Six Day War of 1967, the Ba'ath Party felt strong enough to retake power in 1968. Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr became president and chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC). The Ba'ath government started a campaign to end the Kurdish insurrection, which stalled in 1969. This can be partly attributed to the internal power struggle in Baghdad and also tensions with Iran. Moreover, the Soviet Union pressured the Iraqis to come to terms with Barzani. The war ended with more than 100,000 mortal casualties, with little achievements to both Kurdish rebels and the Iraqi government.

By 1974 the situation in the north escalated again into the Second Kurdish Iraqi War, to last until 1975."

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Saddam took power in 1979. With our major support, he brought Iraq its only period of relative stability. Bush Sr. had the smarts to leave that intact. Bush Jr. smashed it. I doubt you could find many ordinary Iraqis who view our 2nd invasion, and its aftermath, as anything other than a total disaster.

I'm done talking about this, the incredibly stupid 2nd Iraqi war, and its costs, are far too painful. Feel free to have the last word.

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      06-13-2014, 08:23 PM   #315
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More of the same old cons by the Fed:

The Internal Revenue Service told Congress Friday it has lost over 3 years of emails to and from Lois Lerner, a central figure in the agency's Tea Party controversy, sparking outrage from congressional investigators who have been probing the agency for more than a year.

How fucking convenient.

Suppose, for example, you were audited by the IRS and you were to tell them, your computer crashed and you no longer have two years worth of receipts.

This is so flagrant, corrupt, shameful and they are flat out lying!
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      06-13-2014, 08:25 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy View Post
The above defies history, discussed in detail below. Iraq was never going to work. It was a violent mess from its formation by Great Britain in 1932, disparate groups forced together who have always hated each other, Sunnis, Shias, Kurds. They fought endless wars.

Since 1979, it was held together by brute force, a strongman dictator Saddam, who we basically put in charge. I suppose an option after we overthrew him would have been to substitute a major permanent US military presence. Which is clearly what the Wall Street Journal is suggesting. There, thankfully, would have been no popular support for that.

I could quote Bush's silly predictions of a new democracy in Iraq endlessly. It was never going to happen. Iraq would have descended into the chaos it has always been, no matter when we left. A year ago, five years from now, whenever.

The only benefit from this sorry mess is that, hopefully, the American people will never again support a war of our choice. Now some history, amply demonstrating how Iraq never did work, history that was totally ignored by Bush.

"Establishment of Arab Sunni domination in Iraq was followed by Assyrian, Yazidi and Shi'a unrests, which were all brutally suppressed. In 1936, the first military coup took place in the Kingdom of Iraq, as Bakr Sidqi succeeded in replacing the acting Prime Minister with his associate. Multiple coups followed in a period of political instability, peaking in 1941.

During World War II, Iraqi regime of Regent 'Abd al-Ilah was overthrown in 1941 by the Golden Square officers, headed by Rashid Ali. The short lived pro-Nazi government of Iraq was defeated in May 1941 by the allied forces in Anglo-Iraqi War.

In 1945, Iraq joined the United Nations and became a founding member of the Arab League. At the same time, the Kurdish leader Mustafa Barzani led a rebellion against the central government in Baghdad. After the failure of the uprising Barzani and his followers fled to the Soviet Union.

In 1948, massive violent protests, known as the Al-Wathbah uprising broke out across Baghdad as a popular demand against the government treaty with the British, and with communist part support. More protests continued in spring, but were interrupted in May, with the marshal law, when Iraq entered the 1948 Arab-Israeli War along with other members of the Arab League.

In February 1958, King Hussein of Jordan and `Abd al-Ilāh proposed a union of Hāshimite monarchies to counter the recently formed Egyptian-Syrian union. The prime minister Nuri as-Said wanted Kuwait to be part of the proposed Arab-Hāshimite Union. Shaykh `Abd-Allāh as-Salīm, the ruler of Kuwait, was invited to Baghdad to discuss Kuwait's future. This policy brought the government of Iraq into direct conflict with Britain, which did not want to grant independence to Kuwait. At that point, the monarchy found itself completely isolated. Nuri as-Said was able to contain the rising discontent only by resorting to even greater political oppression.

Inspired by Nasser, officers from the Nineteenth Brigade, 3rd Division known as "The Four Colonials", under the leadership of Brigadier Abd al-Karīm Qāsim (known as "az-Za`īm", 'the leader') and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif overthrew the Hashimite monarchy on July 14, 1958. The new government proclaimed Iraq to be a republic and rejected the idea of a union with Jordan. Iraq's activity in the Baghdad Pact ceased.

In 1961, Kuwait gained independence from Britain and Iraq claimed sovereignty over Kuwait. A period of considerable instability followed. The same year, Mustafa Barzani, who had been invited to return to Iraq by Qasim three years earlier, began engaging Iraqi government forces and establishing Kurdish control in the north in what was the beginning of the First Kurdish Iraqi War.

Qāsim was assassinated in February 1963, when the Ba'ath Party took power under the leadership of General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr (prime minister) and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif (president). In June 1963, Syria, which meanwhile had also fell under Ba'athist rule, took part in the Iraqi military campaign against the Kurds by providing aircraft, armoured vehicles and a force of 6,000 soldiers. Several months later, `Abd as-Salam Muhammad `Arif led a successful coup against the Ba'ath government. Arif declared a ceasefire in February 1964 which provoked a split among Kurdish urban radicals on one hand and Peshmerga (Freedom fighters) forces led by Barzani on the other.

On April 13, 1966, President Abdul Salam Arif died in a helicopter crash and was succeeded by his brother, General Abdul Rahman Arif. Following the unexpected death of Arif, whereupon he was replaced by his brother, Abdul Rahman Arif, the Iraqi government launched a last-ditch effort to defeat the Kurds. This campaign failed in May 1966, when Barzani forces thoroughly defeated the Iraqi Army at the Battle of Mount Handrin, near Rawanduz. Following the Six Day War of 1967, the Ba'ath Party felt strong enough to retake power in 1968. Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr became president and chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC). The Ba'ath government started a campaign to end the Kurdish insurrection, which stalled in 1969. This can be partly attributed to the internal power struggle in Baghdad and also tensions with Iran. Moreover, the Soviet Union pressured the Iraqis to come to terms with Barzani. The war ended with more than 100,000 mortal casualties, with little achievements to both Kurdish rebels and the Iraqi government.

By 1974 the situation in the north escalated again into the Second Kurdish Iraqi War, to last until 1975."

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Saddam took power in 1979. With our major support, he brought Iraq its only period of relative stability. Bush Sr. had the smarts to leave that intact. Bush Jr. smashed it. I doubt you could find many ordinary Iraqis who view our 2nd invasion, and its aftermath, as anything other than a total disaster.

I'm done talking about this, the incredibly stupid 2nd Iraqi war, and its costs, are far too painful. Feel free to have the last word.
And Obama is suggesting that he is considering sending troops back to Iraq. I suppose your going to blame this on Bush too!

In the meantime, none of the gibberish you just posted has anything to do with what I posted. Are you high?
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      06-18-2014, 06:57 AM   #317
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Speaking of con jobs - this deluge of illegal immigrants takes the cake:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/1478...nesty-promise/

How our President continues to encourage and enable our country being overrun is appalling, and a threat to national security. It also puts the immigrants themselves in extreme jeopardy.
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      07-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #318
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Looks like elected Democrats are giving away our country:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...Doors-Are-Open
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