[M3Luck84]

Guys, just wanted to get your perspective on wjether or not BMW is spreading the model line too much. What I mean by that is, I\'ve noticed that they have been adding various models their lineup. Various editions of the m3 various editions of the 3 series coupe just to name a few. My point here is, that if they do saturate the market with new vehicles do you think they will loose their sense of uniqueness. Om top of that do you think the quality may suffer both in vehicle quality and service quality based on such saturation. It would be great to see what others think.

Thanks

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by M3Luck84

Guys, just wanted to get your perspective on wjether or not BMW is spreading the model line too much. What I mean by that is, I\'ve noticed that they have been adding various models their lineup. Various editions of the m3 various editions of the 3 series coupe just to name a few. My point here is, that if they do saturate the market with new vehicles do you think they will loose their sense of uniqueness. Om top of that do you think the quality may suffer both in vehicle quality and service quality based on such saturation. It would be great to see what others think.

Thanks

In a word, yes. They made a business decision that they can make more money if they can fulfill more customers' needs, obviously by creating more models. But if that causes them to lose sight of what made them so great, then you end up with a problem, at least in the eyes of the enthusiasts. I hope they don't say "Well pissing off enthusiasts is worth it if we can make a lot of 'commoners' happy", but who knows.

That said, there is a success story to look to and hope that BMW manages to emulate: Porsche. They've successfully expanded their product portfolio with the Panamera and Cayenne (and upcoming Cajun) while still staying focused on their roots with the 911. They're doing that despite the fact that with the new models now on the market, all of the 911 variants combined represent only about 10% of Porsche's sales. Porsche is essentially using the insanely high sales of the new models to finance their continued development of the 911 (and 918 and whatever new car they slot between the two). If BMW uses the same tactic, then I say make all the niche models they want -- so long as they use the money they reap from that to continue making the cars that made them so popular in the first place.

[hks786]

+1

I think sometimes car brands use great marketing to convince us there is a market for certain cars and a lot of people buy into it because they trust certain brands. For me I hate models like the X1, X3, upcoming X4 etc. I see them as pointless models but I know a lot people will argue with that because they do sell. I'd rather see BMW spend more investment into new tech for existing range and focus on reducing weight of their current line up. For example 650i is nearly 2000kg!

[Mulberry]

Originally Posted by hks786

+1

I think sometimes car brands use great marketing to convince us there is a market for certain cars and a lot of people buy into it because they trust certain brands. For me I hate models like the X1, X3, upcoming X4 etc. I see them as pointless models but I know a lot people will argue with that because they do sell. I'd rather see BMW spend more investment into new tech for existing range and focus on reducing weight of their current line up. For example 650i is nearly 2000kg!

In my opinion the risk is will the accountants trim quality any further? A lot of other brands are very close to catching BMW up on quality and reliability, and while the Porsche example is a good one they are obsessive about quality........I know because I've owned one.

As for the X1 for me it is an almost perfect car for the narrow lanes in Somerset, the pot holes and speed reducing humps on the roads, and narrow parking spaces. I think that some of the interior is a little 'cheap' (door handles and no extended leather option). On a personal note I can't see the point of an X1 that is not four wheel drive...why not just buy a hatchback or small estate?

Photograph of my 23d modified to MSport attached. Perhaps next will be power and brake upgrades? All work was carried out by BMW

[Superspeed]

I bet this is a continous discussion in the board of BMW as well. To stay on top in technology, be competitive and stay in business they need a certain size. Imo it is possible to hold the core values high and continue to be a sort of mass producing niche manufacturer as long as they build the BMW gene in each and every model. No matter X, Z, M, 1, 3, 5, 6 or 7 series.

So far I believe they have managed the game. Hopefully they don't lose focus while battling against Mercedes and Audi to be the largest premium manufacturer.
Remember BMW was small and weak in the beginning of the 60's and almost got in the hands of Daimler Benz. After that they started developing their own muscles. Volume is part of that. But not only.

[GreyCoupe]

I think the jumble is confusing, but so too, is the car market. The specialization of vehicles, and the market niches growing from that is dazzling. I think BMW is doing things that seem like mumbo jumbo now, will fit into a logical, grand plan when more is revealed.

Don't forget we are on the brink of a great revolution; looking at the series BMW now manages is simple compared with doing so during the transition to non-diesel, non-gasoline cars that seems to be imminent. i8, for example. When that occurs and whether it is embraced by the car buying public will take some pretty nifty brand management as well.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by M3Luck84

Guys, just wanted to get your perspective on wjether or not BMW is spreading the model line too much. What I mean by that is, I\'ve noticed that they have been adding various models their lineup. Various editions of the m3 various editions of the 3 series coupe just to name a few. My point here is, that if they do saturate the market with new vehicles do you think they will loose their sense of uniqueness. Om top of that do you think the quality may suffer both in vehicle quality and service quality based on such saturation. It would be great to see what others think.

Thanks

There is ultimately no doubt that this is getting out of control, I remember when BMW was strictly a luxury car maker and it was truly a cool car. When you have so many models and so many sides of the market accounted for that is no longer the case... this however is business and from a business standpoint they are doing just fine.

[Mulberry]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

Look great! But why would you do a brake upgrade?

Performance and speed make a car special, but stopping power is also important. You could be talking Porsche Boxster levels of performance in a heavier vehical so I know which brake set up I would prefer

Now back to the thread....is the range extension that we are seeing reducing residual values?

[Superspeed]

The core products of BMW were traditionally mid and large sized sporty family sedans and sport coupés. If they had insisted on focusing on only these genres (eventually including the Touring models) they would miss the market where the growth has been. Which is the SUV market and compact cars.

I believe that would have put them out of business, at least as an independent car maker. They would in best case have been a sub marque of one of the giants in the automobile industri, or even owned by some Chinese company.

So I think they had no choice other than going for a broader market. As long as they bulid the core values (sporty handling, sporty engine, high build quality) into each and every car I am fine with that.

[ChrisK]

My 2 cents...

I think BMW is going the way of GM. Two many models, too much model overlap.

1M
M2 (Coupe Version of 1M - Rumor in the works)
M3
M4 (Coupe Version of M3 - Rumor in the works)
M5
M6

1 Series
3 Series
5 Series
6 Series
7 Series

X1
X3
X4 (Similar to the X6 - Rumor in the works)
X5
X6

Z2 (Rumor in the works)
Z4

[M3Bahn]

They have totally diluted the brand, I am pretty much done buying new BMWs. They also seem more focused on the emerging asian market than us now.

The steering keeps getting lighter with less feel, interiors look/feel cheaper and are less focused on the driver.

I find older models are more interesting and might pick up an M6 as a project car.

Their motorcycle division is where they totally dominate and I am happy with my S1000rr.

[powertech83]

Originally Posted by Superspeed

The core products of BMW were traditionally mid and large sized sporty family sedans and sport coupés. If they had insisted on focusing on only these genres (eventually including the Touring models) they would miss the market where the growth has been. Which is the SUV market and compact cars.

I believe that would have put them out of business, at least as an independent car maker. They would in best case have been a sub marque of one of the giants in the automobile industri, or even owned by some Chinese company.

So I think they had no choice other than going for a broader market. As long as they bulid the core values (sporty handling, sporty engine, high build quality) into each and every car I am fine with that.

Totally agree

[moar]

They spread it out too much a long time ago imho.

[E90SLAM]

As long as they do it right (handling, power, options, design, technology, etc...), I don't mind them spreading a few more new models. Rather than ran out of business and being absorbed into some other industrial giant.

[eldamien]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

My 2 cents...

I think BMW is going the way of GM. Two many models, too much model overlap.

1M
M2 (Coupe Version of 1M - Rumor in the works)
M3
M4 (Coupe Version of M3 - Rumor in the works)
M5
M6

1 Series
3 Series
5 Series
6 Series
7 Series

X1
X3
X4 (Similar to the X6 - Rumor in the works)
X5
X6

Z2 (Rumor in the works)
Z4

BMW is still an exclusive, high-end automaker. At least, they still have that perception here in California, and I live in SoCal in a pretty affluent area. They aren't really in danger of being perceived as "glutting" the market, Mercedes has that dubious honour here among luxury brands.

Excluding the "rumoured" vehicles, BMW has 7 lines, each one seems to be targeted at a specific segment of the market.

1 Series - sporty, "entry level" coupe, though the pricing doesn't bear this out. Sexy, fun, small. Appeals to young professionals.

3 Series - staple sedan with some exotic-type options (coupe, convertable, etc). Appeals to guys like me, basically - mid-career managers, first-time luxury buyers, etc.

5 Series - mid- to -upper level sedan with less focus on speed and more focus on luxury. Appeals to executives and the like.

6 Series - Honestly I don't know much about the 6, I don't see many of them around here. I have no idea who it appeals to, actually.

7 series - ultra, full size luxury.

X series - SUV or crossover, depending on your definition. Not much to see here. Every automaker has a line of these.

Z Series - traditional roadster. sporty, sexy, cool, fun to drive. If BMW didn't have an offering here I'd be surprised, but the 1-series already has more "mental market share" here in the states, I think.

The M is generally a showcase vehicle in a particular line (M1, M3...), much like the various "special" editions of the Mustang. The fact that BMW makes only one version of each M is nice, to my way of thinking.

At last count, Ford has 24 different model lines. Toyota has 19. Mercedes has 13 (!).

So no, I don't think BMW is in danger of diluting the brand. There are a few luxury makers that make 3-4 cars and are pretty successful at it, but if BMW's goal is longevity, introducing new lines isn't a bad thing. The all-consuming "market share" statistic is just as important for them as it is for anyone, don't let their marketing convince you otherwise.

[gIzzE]

BMW have had to increase the model range to accommodate all the people that want to buy their product.

It is the worlds blasé approach to credit that has cheapened the brand.

In 1989 an E30 325i saloon was nearly £20,000, we were buying a house then for around £40,000.
Now in 2011 a 325i is £25,000 but that same house is selling for around £150,000.
If a 325i was £75,000 today ($150,000us) BMW would still be happy with making and selling 3, 5 and 7 series.


Cars are cheap these days, plus you then have the fact that you can get them on finance for peanuts.
Friend just got a brand new Mercedes C250cdi sport estate - edition 125 for £252 a month with only £1500 deposit, that is a £35,000 car for £250 a month!!!

The fact that you only have to work part time in McDonalds these days to afford a BMW or Mercedes is taking the exclusivity away from the brand more so than the fact they are offering more models.

All imho of course.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

BMW is trying to be the next Toyota and the brand has been watered down already, in my opinion. It all started with the X5/X6M's...then the 1M. Don't like it and will probably not own a regular BMW ever again. MB seems to making some nice progress. I like the reviews on the M5. Hopefully, they keep it up on the M3. I'd really love to own a 991 P-Car by the time the next gen M3 hits though. We'll see what happens.

[bstockbhappy]

x4 and x6 are redundant vehicles. I must not be the target audience.

[Superspeed]

Originally Posted by bstockbhappy

x4 and x6 are redundant vehicles.

I see it totally different. If you accept someone like BMW in this segment, making a sporty handling SUV would definitely be the task of BMW.
Building big soft SUVs with low driving appeal is better left to others.

[eldamien]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

BMW have had to increase the model range to accommodate all the people that want to buy their product.

It is the worlds blasé approach to credit that has cheapened the brand.

In 1989 an E30 325i saloon was nearly £20,000, we were buying a house then for around £40,000.
Now in 2011 a 325i is £25,000 but that same house is selling for around £150,000.
If a 325i was £75,000 today ($150,000us) BMW would still be happy with making and selling 3, 5 and 7 series.


Cars are cheap these days, plus you then have the fact that you can get them on finance for peanuts.
Friend just got a brand new Mercedes C250cdi sport estate - edition 125 for £252 a month with only £1500 deposit, that is a £35,000 car for £250 a month!!!

The fact that you only have to work part time in McDonalds these days to afford a BMW or Mercedes is taking the exclusivity away from the brand more so than the fact they are offering more models.

All imho of course.

True, but this is temporary. People are desperate to sell cars and BMW is no exception. It's their business, after all.

People will rapidly find out however that the TCO on a BMW is not the monthly payment. Gas, maintaining the vehicle, and the "luxury tax" of owning a higher-end vehicle (little things like being charged more for detailing, anyone?) will catch up to those people working at McDonalds or Denny's and driving a Bimmer.

Getting a BMW still isn't as easy as you might think - even CarMax (where I got my used 328i) knows the value of the brand and charges accordingly.

Everyone is desperate to sell, as I said, so most luxury items are being down-marketed to the middle class. I don't think I've ever seen so many Ferraris, Astons, and R8's in my area in my lifetime. Unless a bunch of people suddenly came into a lot of money all of the sudden, I think my theory stands - essential goods are on the rise, while luxury items are being down-marketed.

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by M3Luck84

Guys, just wanted to get your perspective on wjether or not BMW is spreading the model line too much. What I mean by that is, I\'ve noticed that they have been adding various models their lineup. Various editions of the m3 various editions of the 3 series coupe just to name a few. My point here is, that if they do saturate the market with new vehicles do you think they will loose their sense of uniqueness. Om top of that do you think the quality may suffer both in vehicle quality and service quality based on such saturation. It would be great to see what others think.

Thanks

Audi, BMW and MB are all doing the same thing, and it seems to be working great for them (especially for Audi and BMW). It's hard to argue with success...that's why they keep increasing their product lines.