[Elie335]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Look like TD04L-13Ts, slightly smaller than RBs in wheel size. Good upgrade, but if going full upgrade route would likely use something else. He maybe able to benefit from this discussion though, regarding oil consumption.

Hello RobBeck, here's an idea of the wheel size, I do think they're slightly bigger than RBs, in everything mostly.








PS: turbos are not new, they're OFF A wrecked car

[Rob@RBTurbo]

It's a good upgrade for sure. They are from a WRX, seen many... considered same thing long ago. Wheel size and flow potential is slightly smaller than the RBs- although you'll benefit from larger housings and you can upgrade them to bigger wheels later if you wanted. That's alot of work though, as is why I'd start with bigger units if going fully custom and tossing out the idea of "bolt on direct replacements".

[Elie335]

^exactly .

So is there anything serious with oil consumption with upgraded turbos as damaging the turbos ? or its just a " WASTE " of oil?

[lostomni]

Rob- great explanation, and I agree that there is confusion about the reason why some OEMs experience smoke after exaust mods and some don't.

[drfrink24]

Probably a stupid question, but has everyone been propely priming their turbos before starting the car after install?

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by themyst

My car threw a low oil pressure code and I was dangerously low on oil out of the blue with no warning. I topped the oil off one quart and 1000 miles later, it needs another quart.

Hard to imagine the turbos going out at 22k miles but funnier things have happened.

Believe it or not I spoke to my indy shop about this and he says hes had to replace turbos at low mileage intervals..makes you wonder if they can take the boost we put thru them...

Either way I am treating them as wear item like brakes/tires..albeit an expensive one

[dzenno]

I did, both times

[ultimateracing335]

There is an issue and it must be remedied!!!

[oddjob2021]

asr afaik has already fixed this, they increased the size of the oil drain to a -10 fitting, this allows more oil to drain. some overseas customers complained about it and it was then remedied iirc. also, some cars naturally have higher oil pressure than others, thus some cars will experience this more than others.

[dzenno]

AFAIK ASR oil drains were smaller than stock to begin with...they had 2 updates, one was to male the drains more like the stock drains diameter wise but the other was a restrictor in the oil feed lines which some/all of us may also need depending on the situation

[oddjob2021]

check it out, drain:



there are my turbos a when i installed them over a year ago. afaik, they didnt have issues then with oil drain, possibly because of less boost but that's not the point. these turbos i have (which are in the process of being changed to the new exhaust housing design and new actuators, and of course new oil drain fitting) have the oil drain/feed that the original design had.

heres another view (same day, the install day )


and from the top, so you can see the feed


i'd honestly post more but i want to save them and new pictures ive taken/will take for a thread when i get the car back. then ill dyno and update said thread.

edit: i should add i was running an RR OCC from about when they released it to until it failed (started to leak) and am currently running a BSH OCC. thought it may be pertinent in this thread.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Believe it or not I spoke to my indy shop about this and he says hes had to replace turbos at low mileage intervals..makes you wonder if they can take the boost we put thru them...

Either way I am treating them as wear item like brakes/tires..albeit an expensive one

My turbos sound absolutely terrible. My car hasn't burned any oil in 500 miles since that last quart, so hopefully it was just a freak occurrence (considering it was way hotter last month) If I come out to the Wednesday meet you can hear what I'm talking about

If you take a look at the compressor map for our TD04's though, we're really not too far outside the efficiency range of those turbos. I set for 17.5 psi daily and 19 for runs which equates to 14-16 psi at redline.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by themyst

My turbos sound absolutely terrible. My car hasn't burned any oil in 500 miles since that last quart, so hopefully it was just a freak occurrence (considering it was way hotter last month) If I come out to the Wednesday meet you can hear what I'm talking about

If you take a look at the compressor map for our TD04's though, we're really not too far outside the efficiency range of those turbos. I set for 17.5 psi daily and 19 for runs which equates to 14-16 psi at redline.

Wow,,so your turbos are making physical noise?..thats def not good..yea I will be there tomm...hopefully it was just due to the heat..when we had the heat wave last month i just switched to stock map..no point in boosting in super hot weather.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Wow,,so your turbos are making physical noise?..thats def not good..yea I will be there tomm...hopefully it was just due to the heat..when we had the heat wave last month i just switched to stock map..no point in boosting in super hot weather.

I have a harmonic siren on cold start It does get better after the car gets warm, but its definitely not good. That's what I get for doing multiple 2-3-4-5 pulls at 18-19 psi, who knows!

[MilehighM3]

Two things come right to mind other than thread jacking in progress....

First, oil pressure is rpm dependent and only higher when needed based on need ie- vanos operation. Does vary also with temp as usual, but slightly more complex than the average oiling system. Mainly it gets enough oil pressure to do the job, while increasing the efficiency of the engine and reducing pumping losses.

Second- if a restrictor is installed in to oil feed line to the turbos, that will increase oil pressure, not decrease it. I'm also not following how an oil catch can will directly effect oil pressure. Crankcase pressure is not going to have as much of an effect on an engine as crankcase vacuum will. Since the OCC are only effecting the high pressure side of the crankcase ventilation (under boost) and not the low pressure (vacuum) side of it, I'm not sold on the evidence there. If some one has an oil pressure gauge reading on the same car, same driving conditions, outside temp and same sections of road, both with and without the OCC installed- let me know. That being said, how many people with them installed actually catch oil? A lot of guys don't, seems like a waste to me.

It's late, so I'll edit this some when I read it later if needed to make more sense/ add more thoughts.

Adam, hopefully this gets resolved sooner than later. I know you waited forever and a day to get them. 1qt in 350 miles is absurd...turbos leaking out the center section of the housings are definitely bad. Btw, see you at the shop ;-)

[Aridk]

Does Turbo Dynamics have the same issues?? Enrita could you chime in
Is that the reason why TD come with other oillines and are they with a restrictor (smaller diameter)??

[jippii ensio]

TD didn't bother to make it full bolt-on, so that is the reason they are slightly different. Looking at their oil lines, I would say that if anything, this is more of an issue at TDs than RBs.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Aridk

Does Turbo Dynamics have the same issues?? Enrita could you chime in
Is that the reason why TD come with other oillines and are they with a restrictor (smaller diameter)??

It is correct that Turbo Dynamics' stage 2 upgrade which is largely similar to the RB turbos does not use the stock oil lines; I believe Rob Beck conceived a special adaptor in order to make that possible, which TD did not do (probably due to lack of development time). As a consequence, custom oil (and water) lines had to be made for these.

There was also an oil consumption problem with these on E92Fan's car, which burned oil through the exhaust as well. When looking at the turbos it was visible that the oil lines leaked oil. He later found out that the washers / seals on the oil lines were the culprit as these cannot be re-used. They must be replaced with each install, and as E92Fan took the turbos out quite often, the original seals didn't work properly any more and oil started leaking out.

However, I think the OP already confirmed that this cannot be the problem and that the oil lines themselves had already been verified.

Other than this, I believe that E92Fan didn't have any oil leakage problem with the upgraded turbos. AFAIK he's running them with the PROcede at around 16psi right now.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[GeorgeSmooth]

I have run 7000km with the majority of that mileage at 19.5psi. I am at high altitude so the turbos are actually spinning 22psi worth to overcome the altitude. To date I am ok with no oil use. I am running AE Exhaust and AR Dp's. Will keep a closer check on this and give feedback if I start using.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Aridk

Does Turbo Dynamics have the same issues?? Enrita could you chime in
Is that the reason why TD come with other oillines and are they with a restrictor (smaller diameter)??

my turbos have never been leaking. I have completely custom fabricated water/oil line done by my shop.

I have added 500ml oil in 6000 km of hard driving . Seems quite ok.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

To date I am ok with no oil use.

Great to hear. I hope to install the RB's soon. I currently have a BSH catch can installed, although it has not caught any oil. I may take it out before RB install. I have never had oil consumption while on stock turbos in almost 4.5 years with almost all of it tuned to between 15 and 17 PSI.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Oil pressure is definitely a factor on some of these cars. But I just wanted to reclarify that a restrictor WILL NOT INCREASE oil pressure, it will decrease it by limiting volume flow as consumed by the turbo. Flow reduced-pressure reduced. I also do not see how OCC will affect Oil pressure, but it does affect the PCV system. The OCC affects BOTH the high and low pressure side of the PCV system. At high loads, it has forward flow through it towards turbo. At low loads, it has reverse airflow through it as internal check valve pulls fresh air through it. Both ways it acts as a restrictor to some degree in the system. (this is the part no one has considered when running them). No more talk necessary about OCC affecting OIL pressure, no one is saying that it has that affect.

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Two things come right to mind other than thread jacking in progress....

First, oil pressure is rpm dependent and only higher when needed based on need ie- vanos operation. Does vary also with temp as usual, but slightly more complex than the average oiling system. Mainly it gets enough oil pressure to do the job, while increasing the efficiency of the engine and reducing pumping losses.

Second- if a restrictor is installed in to oil feed line to the turbos, that will increase oil pressure, not decrease it. I'm also not following how an oil catch can will directly effect oil pressure. Crankcase pressure is not going to have as much of an effect on an engine as crankcase vacuum will. Since the OCC are only effecting the high pressure side of the crankcase ventilation (under boost) and not the low pressure (vacuum) side of it, I'm not sold on the evidence there. If some one has an oil pressure gauge reading on the same car, same driving conditions, outside temp and same sections of road, both with and without the OCC installed- let me know. That being said, how many people with them installed actually catch oil? A lot of guys don't, seems like a waste to me.

It's late, so I'll edit this some when I read it later if needed to make more sense/ add more thoughts.

Adam, hopefully this gets resolved sooner than later. I know you waited forever and a day to get them. 1qt in 350 miles is absurd...turbos leaking out the center section of the housings are definitely bad. Btw, see you at the shop ;-)

The issue is not widespread. Throw enough of them on, certain cars will spring up. RB's and TD's are essentially the same thing, but RB's have spent alot more time under development in order to be a direct bolt on.

Originally Posted by Aridk

Does Turbo Dynamics have the same issues?? Enrita could you chime in
Is that the reason why TD come with other oillines and are they with a restrictor (smaller diameter)??

This is correct. Not sure the ID of the oil feed line they use, but the OEM feed lines are quite large. Its possible they could be smaller, and if they were I doubt it was "by design".

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

TD didn't bother to make it full bolt-on, so that is the reason they are slightly different. Looking at their oil lines, I would say that if anything, this is more of an issue at TDs than RBs.

That drain looks like the OEM drain. I have read ASR used to employ a very small -8AN custom return. That is very small (but this is a BB turbo, requires less oil to operate as well). The OEM drain is much larger, and is what the RB Drain has always been. The OEM drain really also can not be improved on much, without very extensive modifications.

Originally Posted by oddjob2021

check it out, drain:



there are my turbos a when i installed them over a year ago. afaik, they didnt have issues then with oil drain, possibly because of less boost but that's not the point. these turbos i have (which are in the process of being changed to the new exhaust housing design and new actuators, and of course new oil drain fitting) have the oil drain/feed that the original design had.

heres another view (same day, the install day )


and from the top, so you can see the feed


i'd honestly post more but i want to save them and new pictures ive taken/will take for a thread when i get the car back. then ill dyno and update said thread.

edit: i should add i was running an RR OCC from about when they released it to until it failed (started to leak) and am currently running a BSH OCC. thought it may be pertinent in this thread.

George,

Thanks for the input. You are definitely not the only one. Have you ever ran an OCC?

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

I have run 7000km with the majority of that mileage at 19.5psi. I am at high altitude so the turbos are actually spinning 22psi worth to overcome the altitude. To date I am ok with no oil use. I am running AE Exhaust and AR Dp's. Will keep a closer check on this and give feedback if I start using.