[SouthernBoy]

Audi's have issues. It's just one f**king thing after another. We've had them in our family for over 30 years. They really haven't improved. I doubt this new guy will radically change BMW M cars for the worst. No need to freak out. BMW has standards.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

Audi's have issues. It's just one f**king thing after another. We've had them in our family for over 30 years. They really haven't improved. I doubt this new guy will radically change BMW M cars for the worst. No need to freak out. BMW has standards.

Lol. Is all I gotta say.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Tracus

This kind of comments make me laugh.

First, everybody starts commenting on what kind of rotten eggs the new chicken will lay without even seeing one.

Second, maybe you are trying to convince yourself that it is a good move and that is a different story but don't try to justify your move based on nothing. I am almost sure that many in here don't care if somebody chooses Porsche instead of BMW.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by ///mawana

Here comes AWD Ms!

About time!

This is what I have been waiting for. I want an M4 with Competition Package w/Carbon Fiber Roof with 'functioning' Rooftop Luggage Mounts to mount a Thule Roof Rack, and an X4M!

An AWD M can be sold as an option, I can't see why BMW M Division can not design a fantastic version along with a RWD version as well.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by wdeerfield

I'll take awd m cars. Nothing wrong with an m car that I could use year round up here in upstate ny. All you "purists" need to get with the times already.

I concur, with my fellow New Yorker!

BMW xDrive "AWD" M's as an option. If you want only RWD get that version. But for us living in 4-seasons climates, and not just a 2-season one AWD makes sense for safety. I don't know about u guys I want to have as much grip and to stay on our crazy and congested New York roads in all-weather and in all driving conditions. One kick-ass M car that can do it all!

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

At first i was like "damn here go the AWD boring sounding BMWs" but now that I'm thinking of it, he will probably take advantage of being freed from Audi's AWD / cookie-cutter culture.

It's not like M was going in a great direction anyway lol. Either way you cut it, we're headed toward an all turbo, all wheel drive, M lineup.

Exactly.... Badging the M235i as an M and playing semantics with the brand......M Group needs someone to get them back on track. Maybe he is the guy.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by EMITTR

Exactly.... Badging the M235i as an M and playing semantics with the brand......M Group needs someone to get them back on track. Maybe he is the guy.

The M235i had nothing to do with M GmbH, that was a move by BMW to leverage the M brand. M GmbH had nothing to do with the development of the M235i.

I don't really care that they did it, just think it's weird. The last time they had a car like that though was the E12 M535i from decades ago as far as I know.

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

The M235i had nothing to do with M GmbH, that was a move by BMW to leverage the M brand. M GmbH had nothing to do with the development of the M235i.

I don't really care that they did it, just think it's weird. The last time they had a car like that though was the E12 M535i from decades ago as far as I know.

Well that is reassuring that the M Group was not involved in that and it was some non-M marketing exec pencil pusher watering down the brand. It is like anything...you create a brand of excellence, attract those who desire excellence and will remain loyal so long as you are true to the brand, have them get used to the taste, and then get greedy and cheap and start screwing with the ingredients but continue to call it the same thing. This is becoming the norm now and it is disappointing.

Obviously the E12 was such as success they decided to do it again? Ugh. Maybe this guy will be a pragmatic purest and put an end to this stuff but I am skeptical. Execs are not in the trenches and don't care about engineers - they are looking at the bottom line and how to make more profits not necessarily a excellent product - rather a mediocre one. Hence the mindset at Audi - AWD - Audi Wheel Drive and they cannot think outside that box. Hopefully he can and bring a MMA attitude to the company (which is what I mean by pragmatic purism). Analogous to MMA - One martial art verses a mixture of martial arts to create a well rounded fighter. Same goes here.

BMW if you are tolling the boards....pay attention to what is being said by your customer-base.

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

The M235i had nothing to do with M GmbH, that was a move by BMW to leverage the M brand. M GmbH had nothing to do with the development of the M235i.

I don't really care that they did it, just think it's weird. The last time they had a car like that though was the E12 M535i from decades ago as far as I know.

Not correct. M division is expressly cited as having tuned the N55 for this model.

The M235i is the first "M Performance" car in North America. Overseas, they also have the M135i, the X5 M50d, X6 M50d and the M550d.

Check out the M Division's website, under "Powered by M".

http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varli...?lang=en&sNr=1

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by DCG

I concur! BMW xDrive "AWD" M's as an option. If you want only RWD get that version. But for us living in 4-seasons climates, and not just a 2-season one AWD makes sense for safety. I don't know about u guys I want to have as much grip and to stay on our crazy and congested New York roads in all-weather and driving conditions. One kick-ass M car that can do it all!

Anybody thinking that M division isn't going to be offering AWD options on M cars is kidding themselves. This hire of an Audi guy is exactly what he was brought in to do.

Personally I think Audi has a huge leg up when it comes to AWD expertise compared to BMW but we'll see if BMW can catch-up. Torque vectoring even on RWD cars would be cool

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Anybody thinking that M division isn't going to be offering AWD options on M cars is kidding themselves. This hire of an Audi guy is exactly what he was brought in to do.

Personally I think Audi has a huge leg up when it comes to AWD expertise compared to BMW but we'll see if BMW can catch-up. Torque vectoring even on RWD cars would be cool

He's a CEO nit engineer. He isn't gonna be able to whip up an AWD recipe himself.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

He's a CEO nit engineer. He isn't gonna be able to whip up an AWD recipe himself.

Still need an exec who understands that value prop and is aligned with that philosophy as well as the connections to expert engineers in the industry

[DCG]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Exactly. Hopefully we now will get the best of both worlds...mainly the driving dynamics of bmw matched with the interior and controls of an Audi.

I agree a different perspective is needed ever so often so brands do not become complacent. But lets please keep the BMW clean, 'less is more' sleak interior cockpit oriented designs on the same trajectory.

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by EMITTR

Well that is reassuring that the M Group was not involved in that and it was some non-M marketing exec pencil pusher watering down the brand. It is like anything...you create a brand of excellence, attract those who desire excellence and will remain loyal so long as you are true to the brand, have them get used to the taste, and then get greedy and cheap and start screwing with the ingredients but continue to call it the same thing. This is becoming the norm now and it is disappointing.

Obviously the E12 was such as success they decided to do it again? Ugh. Maybe this guy will be a pragmatic purest and put an end to this stuff but I am skeptical. Execs are not in the trenches and don't care about engineers - they are looking at the bottom line and how to make more profits not necessarily a excellent product - rather a mediocre one. Hence the mindset at Audi - AWD - Audi Wheel Drive and they cannot think outside that box. Hopefully he can and bring a MMA attitude to the company (which is what I mean by pragmatic
purism). Analogous to MMA - One martial art verses a mixture of martial arts to create a well rounded fighter. Same goes here.

BMW if you are tolling the boards....pay attention to what is being said by your customer-base.

Like IS really meant something to consumers, now that was dumb marketing. Guess it's OK for Audi to have S series and RS but BMW can't do an M235. I had 3 E46 M3's and my M235 will outperform them. You may know cars but you don't know marketing.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by EMITTR

Well that is reassuring that the M Group was not involved in that and it was some non-M marketing exec pencil pusher watering down the brand. It is like anything...you create a brand of excellence, attract those who desire excellence and will remain loyal so long as you are true to the brand, have them get used to the taste, and then get greedy and cheap and start screwing with the ingredients but continue to call it the same thing. This is becoming the norm now and it is disappointing.

Obviously the E12 was such as success they decided to do it again? Ugh. Maybe this guy will be a pragmatic purest and put an end to this stuff but I am skeptical. Execs are not in the trenches and don't care about engineers - they are looking at the bottom line and how to make more profits not necessarily a excellent product - rather a mediocre one. Hence the mindset at Audi - AWD - Audi Wheel Drive and they cannot think outside that box. Hopefully he can and bring a MMA attitude to the company (which is what I mean by pragmatic purism). Analogous to MMA - One martial art verses a mixture of martial arts to create a well rounded fighter. Same goes here.

BMW if you are tolling the boards....pay attention to what is being said by your customer-base.

Good executives do not do that. Is the bottom line a large factor? Obviously but it isn't the only one. GM learned that lesson the hard way in the 80's and 90's.

Look, the guy headed Audi's Quattro unit which meant he oversaw Audi's RS line and the R8. When was the last time you heard someone claiming an Audi was cheap? Especially an RS Audi?

Hell when have you heard anyone call an M235i a cheap car? The car has gotten rave reviews.

You people are such a trip.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Not correct. M division is expressly cited as having tuned the N55 for this model.

The M235i is the first "M Performance" car in North America. Overseas, they also have the M135i, the X5 M50d, X6 M50d and the M550d.

Check out the M Division's website, under "Powered by M".

http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varli...?lang=en&sNr=1

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the correction.

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Like IS really meant something to consumers, now that was dumb marketing. Guess it's OK for Audi to have S series and RS but BMW can't do an M235. I had 3 E46 M3's and my M235 will outperform them. You may know cars but you don't know marketing.

Oh another IS hater. That is ok though. IS was not branded an M nor did it try to be an M. It is not an M car. It filled a very narrow non-M niche market to attract people who bought the 335i and started "M Sporting" it. Now, trying to compare a much older performance generation with a car of today (new generation) and pass that off as a valid analytical compaison? Your emotional quip has proved my point and so your marketing career is very bright! Oh and M Performance (warm fuzzy) is different than M Power (real thing)...

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Good executives do not do that. Is the bottom line a large factor? Obviously but it isn't the only one. GM learned that lesson the hard way in the 80's and 90's.

Look, the guy headed Audi's Quattro unit which meant he oversaw Audi's RS line and the R8. When was the last time you heard someone claiming an Audi was cheap? Especially an RS Audi?

Hell when have you heard anyone call an M235i a cheap car? The car has gotten rave reviews.

You people are such a trip.

You obviously have not read Car & Driver's review. You missed the point.... So let me restate it. I said hopefully he is NOT like that. Hubris kills. However CEOs are hired for their ability to increase shareholder value.... You remain in the dark if you think otherwise. Still the point here is the hope that he embraces BMW and brings the good points of Audi to BMW.

[davis449]

Now that I think I understand where BMW is trying to make this go (model line equivalency with Audi "S" cars), I can get with it. At first I had the same outrageous reactions as many in here. "is" cars did fill a niche as EMITTR stated, but Lucky13 is actually the one who's right here. It's not that he (Lucky13) is a hater, he's just pointing that most people don't give a crap about "is" cars. Re-branding them as Mxxx cars will grab more attention. Is this exactly the way I think it should be done? No, but I get what's trying to be accomplished here by leveraging the M brand.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the correction.

Also says something (although not sure what) that several big magazines have stated the M235i is the best drivers BMW... And it's not an M car, just has an M touched engine and suspension (i think)

[clbmw]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...2016-centenary

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by clbmw

Also says something (although not sure what) that several big magazines have stated the M235i is the best drivers BMW... And it's not an M car, just has an M touched engine and suspension (i think)

Usually best to start from the source, M Division.

From Nov. 1, 2013, here's what they say about the M235i:

http://m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?lang=en&sNr=1

For the genesis, this article about the M135i illustrates the approach for "M Performance" distinguished from "M Power". The balance is toward the daily driver, which suits my preference. Note the statement, "It [M135i] is positioned between the most powerful BMW series production models and thoroughbred BMW M vehicles." [my emphasis]

http://m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?id=2802&lang=en

Finally, here's a bit of video from retiring M Division President Dr. Nitschke (starting around 00:38):

http://m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?id=2644&lang=en

Overall, BMW has been very clear about where they see the M Performance class. Whether that merits an M badge or designation is up for debate, but they're not trying to fool anyone, especially not those who could distinguish between a 335is and a 335i in the first place.