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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Has BMW Ever Explained Why They Won't Offer a Manual in the M235i xDrive?

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      02-06-2014, 12:09 PM   #1
ArthurKing1220
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Question Has BMW Ever Explained Why They Won't Offer a Manual in the M235i xDrive?

I've been shopping a 435i xDrive with a manual transmission for about 4 months now. Because of some of the poor feedback I've been hearing in terms of the 4-series size / steering / feedback, however, I've also started to consider the possibility of an M235i which seems like a really nice car (and also about $10k cheaper fully loaded if you're going to buy it outright).


My understanding from reading news and forum posts is that xDrive iscoming to the 2-series in the US-- BMW is being kind of coy about formally confirming it but everyone knows it should be here by the summer. But I've also heard--more speculatively--that they don't plan to allow customers to select a 6MT if they select xDrive.


If that's true, it's really disappointing news to me! Is this a "for sure" thing? Meaning, is there really no chance that they're going to allow us to pair xDrive with a 6MT in the US? Usually, BMW seems to be willing to flood the market with as many possible combinations of models / options as they can think of. So it's hard for me to understand why they wouldn't offer this particular combination. Especially when they do offer it on the 435i. (I'm a manual enthusiast but I also strongly prefer to have AWD because of the area I live in.) Is this a technical limitation? A marketing decision? Something else?

Last edited by ArthurKing1220; 02-06-2014 at 12:24 PM..
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      02-06-2014, 12:36 PM   #2
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According to a leaked November 2013 internal bulletin from BMW Canada, "no manual will be offered on either xdrive variant." I would think BMW will do the same for the states, but who knows.

BMW usually limits options pretty significantly imo. For instance, colors for the 235 and 228 MSport line are limited, and you can't get black window trim for 228 unless you opt for MSport, among other things.
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      02-06-2014, 03:02 PM   #3
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It's a business decision. The number of people who buy any M235i with a manual is small and the number who opt for Xdrive and a manual is an even more minuscule fraction of sales. Developing that car simply isn't worth it
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      02-06-2014, 03:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1descending View Post
It's a business decision. The number of people who buy any M235i with a manual is small and the number who opt for Xdrive and a manual is an even more minuscule fraction of sales. Developing that car simply isn't worth it
Is there really that much additional engineering design cost required to create that combination? They are manufacturing F22s with xDrive. They are manufacturing F22s with manual transmissions. What's the great engineering / cost leap involved in combining a manual and AWD system on the same platform? Particularly where they've already demonstrated an ability and willingness to do that exact combination with the F30/F32. I feel like I'm trying to convince the BMW board here to reconsider their decision.

Last edited by ArthurKing1220; 02-06-2014 at 03:42 PM..
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      02-06-2014, 03:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220 View Post
Is there really that much additional engineering design cost required to create that combination? They are manufacturing F22s with xDrive. They are manufacturing F22s with manual transmissions. What's the great engineering / cost leap involved in combining a manual and AWD system on the same platform? Particularly where they've already demonstrated an ability and willingness to do the same thing with the F30/F32. I feel like I'm trying to convince the BMW board here to reconsider their decision.
I agree, it should be an option but likely is not because of low demand. However, x-drive is not all it is cracked up to be - it gives u slightly better starting grip in heavy snow and that is about it. Adds sig weight and really does not give u better handling. My father has xdrive and it got stuck in snow in our driveway w all of the wheels spinning! Unlike Subaru, which has a great all-wheel drive system so they say, luxury manufacturers will stick w all-wheel drives that split the power basically 60-40 most of the time (so car drives similar to a rear-wheeler). A Subaru system raises the ride height too much. Moreover, who wants manual anymore, when auto outperforms it. U simply cannot shift as fast and as smoothly (either up or down) in a manual vs. an auto. So solution - M235i without xdrive and without manual. Hope this helps.
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      02-06-2014, 03:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220 View Post
Is there really that much additional engineering design cost required to create that combination? They are manufacturing F22s with xDrive. They are manufacturing F22s with manual transmissions. What's the great engineering / cost leap involved in combining a manual and AWD system on the same platform? Particularly where they've already demonstrated an ability and willingness to do that exact combination with the F30/F32. I feel like I'm trying to convince the BMW board here to reconsider their decision.
According to Wikipedia the 1-series coupe sold around 25,000 units worldwide per year. I'm not sure what the exact take rate is on manuals these days but I often see numbers in the 4-5% range floated around, which would be around 1,000 of those 25,000 cars. Now take however many of those 1,000 will opt for x-drive as well and we're talking about maybe a few hundred cars, if they're expecting similar sales figures for the 2 series. I can see why they wouldn't even bother outfitting the assembly line for an extra option combination that virtually nobody is buying, especially when you consider that some fraction of those few hundred people will just opt for the RWD version instead and buy the car anyway.

Not sure why it would be offered on the F30 but obviously they sell a lot more of those so maybe that's why. I'm sure it's not really THAT costly to offer the option on the 2-series but its pretty easy to see why they would forego it.
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      02-06-2014, 04:35 PM   #7
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It simplifies the build process. IF the take rate on the manual trans were higher they'd offer it. This car will be a hoot w xDrive and the 8speed you may like mormight have expected. Drive it, you may still but it, only you will know.

Resale is also going to be higher on the 8speed Auto.
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      02-06-2014, 05:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
It simplifies the build process. IF the take rate on the manual trans were higher they'd offer it. This car will be a hoot w xDrive and the 8speed you may like mormight have expected. Drive it, you may still but it, only you will know.

Resale is also going to be higher on the 8speed Auto.
It has nothing to do with the build process, they will certainly offer x-drive with the manual in other countries. It has everything to do with the cost of certifying it for sale in the US. They did not certify that combo for ANY of the new cars.

Sadly the take rate for manuals is so low that I am surprised they offer it at all in any of their cars. I will also say that I am not buying a new F31 because I can't get it in RWD + manual. I'm going to save $10k and get a 228i instead, and keep my e91 until the wheels fall off.
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      02-06-2014, 06:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1descending
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220 View Post
Is there really that much additional engineering design cost required to create that combination? They are manufacturing F22s with xDrive. They are manufacturing F22s with manual transmissions. What's the great engineering / cost leap involved in combining a manual and AWD system on the same platform? Particularly where they've already demonstrated an ability and willingness to do that exact combination with the F30/F32. I feel like I'm trying to convince the BMW board here to reconsider their decision.
According to Wikipedia the 1-series coupe sold around 25,000 units worldwide per year. I'm not sure what the exact take rate is on manuals these days but I often see numbers in the 4-5% range floated around, which would be around 1,000 of those 25,000 cars. Now take however many of those 1,000 will opt for x-drive as well and we're talking about maybe a few hundred cars, if they're expecting similar sales figures for the 2 series. I can see why they wouldn't even bother outfitting the assembly line for an extra option combination that virtually nobody is buying, especially when you consider that some fraction of those few hundred people will just opt for the RWD version instead and buy the car anyway.

Not sure why it would be offered on the F30 but obviously they sell a lot more of those so maybe that's why. I'm sure it's not really THAT costly to offer the option on the 2-series but its pretty easy to see why they would forego it.
I'm going to guess that the take rate on sports cars OR sporty coupes is always greater than the all-car average of manual take. For example a much larger percent of buyers would choose a manual in a 135 than they would have say in an Audi A4 sedan or a 328.....as my guess. Evidence of this is just looking at 2nd hand cars for sale and how many are manuals.

to address the original poster, I'd say BMW knows it's customer base and knows the majority of 'enthusiasts' who want a manual will *probably* go after the RWD version over the AWD one.
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