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      07-01-2014, 12:12 AM   #23
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Just did some calculations....

225/40/18: 78.812" circumference; 25.086" Diameter

235/40/18: 79.801" circumference; 25.401" Diameter

265/35/18: 79.492" circumference ; 25.303" Diameter

275/35/18: 80.35" circumference; 25.57" Diameter


235/40 & 265/35 seems to be a closer match than 235 & 275 as the former is closer and also sets up the front a hair bigger in diameter than the rear.
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      07-01-2014, 06:51 AM   #24
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235/40 265/35 should work good.
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      07-01-2014, 10:24 AM   #25
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1. 235/40/18 and 265/35/18
2. 235/40/18 and 275/35/18

were recommend for me. I was also told I could go 275 in the back but it's more of a tight fit.

OEM I had staggered setup (225/40/18 and 255/35/18) which give -0.24% difference or 2 rev per mile difference.

OEM : -0.24% and 2 rev per mile
Setup 1 : -0.39% or 4 rev per mile
Setup 2 : 0.70% or -5 rev per mile

I was recommended Setup 1 because of the smaller rolling diameter between the 2 and the fact we stay in the negative rolling diameter like the stock tire setup. I am currently waiting on my tire for Setup 1.

In 19 would be the same sizing except tire height which IIRC are -5 over 18. (235/35/19 and 265/30/19).
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      07-01-2014, 11:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max_k20 View Post
1. 235/40/18 and 265/35/18
2. 235/40/18 and 275/35/18

were recommend for me. I was also told I could go 275 in the back but it's more of a tight fit.

OEM I had staggered setup (225/40/18 and 255/35/18) which give -0.24% difference or 2 rev per mile difference.

OEM : -0.24% and 2 rev per mile
Setup 1 : -0.39% or 4 rev per mile
Setup 2 : 0.70% or -5 rev per mile

I was recommended Setup 1 because of the smaller rolling diameter between the 2 and the fact we stay in the negative rolling diameter like the stock tire setup. I am currently waiting on my tire for Setup 1.

In 19 would be the same sizing except tire height which IIRC are -5 over 18. (235/35/19 and 265/30/19).

Makes perfect sense.

This should be stickied in the xi section.
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      07-07-2014, 09:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtaccord View Post
So I have a theory based on my experience.

Stock tire size:

F - 225/40-18 (637.2 mm dia)
R - 255/35-18 (635.7 mm dia)

Notice that the fronts are slightly larger than the rears

Common 19" size:

F - 235/35-19 (647.1 mm dia)
R - 265/30-19 (641.6 mm dia)

Notice once again that the fronts are larger than the rears. This is the sizing that I run with no problems so far. (20 k miles)

My winter setup:

225/40-18 (637.2 mm dia)
265/35-18 (642.7 mm dia)

Rears are larger than fronts. This is similar to the 225/265 19" setup (640.1 mm dia front vs 641.6 mm dia rear) that the OP has. With this setup I have a lot of surging at constant interstate speeds (60 + mph with cruise on) when under load (going up hills etC). The car still performs well and I have not had any issues with the TC so far (10k miles this winter on this setup). I even had the car on the dyno with these tires. But as soon as I went back to my summer setup the surging went away.

I theorize that the computer and awd system as a whole is setup with the consideration that the front rolling diameter is >= the rear (within reason on the > of course). This being a rear biased awd system (transfer case instead of center diff) the computer wants to see the front driveline turning at the same speed or less when compared to the rear. If you think about it, since the rear wheels can never be disengaged like in a car with a center diff, the TC clutch can only be used to slow down or speed up the front driveline using clutch slip in relation to the rear driveline. The front driveline can never be driven faster than 100% of the speed of the rear driveline. In normal driving (non slip conditions) the transfer case can easily attempt to turn the front driveline faster when using larger front tires(using rear driveline speed as a target) but it cannot make the front driveline constantly turn slower when using smaller front tires (tire speed vs driveline speed). So basically the smaller front tires cause the car to fight itself and will probably cause excessive tc wear.

This is why the 235/35 - 275/30 19" setup still works because the rolling diameters are basically exactly the same.

I would modify the typical advice and say that as long as the front tire diameter is >= the rear tire dia within 1% you will be good. I would avoid going with a setup where the rear tire dia is larger than the front. I am actually considering changing my winter setup because of the obvious drivability difference I am seeing.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts. This is the kind of technical discussion i'm looking for since I've exhausted my abilities. I did want to question a portion of your theory. You mentioned that the front axle can never be driven faster than the rear, but my understanding of xdrive is that it can transfer 100% of the torque to the front. This is needed when a car has the rear wheels on ice and the front wheels have grip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_xDrive The description section on that link also says that, but to give you a better source i think i can find one of the e9x technical documents (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...mm_xdrive.html) that goes into more detail. Also the difference that you calculated for my setup is within a few 32nds of uneven treadwear so I still can't understand why it didn't work fine.
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      07-07-2014, 09:29 PM   #28
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So my last thoughts are that the construction of the PSS with its twaron fibers makes the tires act differently than normal, and that the measured rim width could cause a difference.

With the 225/35R19 and 265/30R19 they have measured rim widths of 8" and 9.5" respectively. I mounted them on style 313 wheels which are 8" and 9" respectively. So maybe since the stretch was different from front to rear it changed the rolling diameters disproportionately. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on measured rim width differences with the wheel causing diameter changes?
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      07-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #29
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I found exactly what i need!

I need a shop with this specific equipment...

http://www.hunter.com/balancer/quickmatch/features.cfm

Check out the tranzsaver feature.
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      08-12-2014, 10:32 AM   #30
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*Bump*

For the same reasons as the OP I purchased a set of 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 tires as it was supposed to be one of the closest setups within the 1% diameter spec. TireRack also said this was the recommended setup and size over others.

I wanted to see what the outcome was - were you able to use this setup when you put it on the Hunter machine with "transaver" or did you get a new setup?

The vehicle also at times feels like it is slightly slipping during slow shifts or a slight jerk and I am concerned it is the tire size. It is not very noticeable but does give me a slight concern.
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      08-12-2014, 09:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
*Bump*

For the same reasons as the OP I purchased a set of 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 tires as it was supposed to be one of the closest setups within the 1% diameter spec. TireRack also said this was the recommended setup and size over others.

I wanted to see what the outcome was - were you able to use this setup when you put it on the Hunter machine with "transaver" or did you get a new setup?

The vehicle also at times feels like it is slightly slipping during slow shifts or a slight jerk and I am concerned it is the tire size. It is not very noticeable but does give me a slight concern.
235/35/19F 275/30/19R is the best combo. Should've gotten those sizes.
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      08-12-2014, 09:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
235/35/19F 275/30/19R is the best combo. Should've gotten those sizes.
Well 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 is well within the 1% threshold... yet it gave the OP problems and appears to be giving me problems as well. Its hard to believe that everyone says that if you are less than 1% there is no issue but yet there is. I don't think I will deviate from stock sizes again.
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      08-13-2014, 08:31 AM   #33
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Great discussion here and some good info. I'm kind of curious why so many of you are die hard to run the Michelin PSS. The construction of each tire brand varies, and sidewall structure can have different effects on the transfer case.

Over the past 5 years, I have successfully run the common staggered widths with no issues, none of them with Michelins.

225/40 (18) and 255/35 (18) Bridgestones, and toyos

235/35 (19) and 265/30 (19) Hankooks, Toyos, and Vredestein

235/35 and 275/30 (Toyo Proxes)

225/35 and 255/30 (Toyo Proxes)

I have different wheel setups for different reasons. Don't be so quick to trust the vendors and/or tire manufacturers. Finding out the hard way is an expensive cost. The Hunter machine with transaver will show you some pretty interesting things with the Michelin PSS. A few of the audi guys have had issues with quattro due to some misleading info.
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      08-13-2014, 09:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
Well 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 is well within the 1% threshold... yet it gave the OP problems and appears to be giving me problems as well. Its hard to believe that everyone says that if you are less than 1% there is no issue but yet there is. I don't think I will deviate from stock sizes again.
who's to say that OPs problems were caused by the tire sizes?

there are a number of factors that can come into play, and i have my doubts that it can be caused by tire sizes. people have been running the standard 235/35 265/30 and 275/30 for years without any single issue whatsoever.
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      08-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
who's to say that OPs problems were caused by the tire sizes?

there are a number of factors that can come into play, and i have my doubts that it can be caused by tire sizes. people have been running the standard 235/35 265/30 and 275/30 for years without any single issue whatsoever.
Interesting - however, I put the same size tires on my car (225/35 | 265/30 - within the 1% rolling diameter difference and within 2 rpms) and immediately experienced the same issue as the OP. Binding when making tight turns and a feeling of slipping gears. This was not present on my stock setup and as soon as I took the above mentioned tires off and put stock sizes on the issue went away.
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      08-13-2014, 06:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
*Bump*

For the same reasons as the OP I purchased a set of 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 tires as it was supposed to be one of the closest setups within the 1% diameter spec. TireRack also said this was the recommended setup and size over others.
offtopic: how much did you get them for? I'm considering the same.
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      08-13-2014, 06:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R7 View Post
offtopic: how much did you get them for? I'm considering the same.
$601 shipped I believe. I'm selling my set with less than 100 miles - trying to get $540 if you are local.

Hankook Ventus V12 EVO K110.
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      08-13-2014, 09:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priority 1 View Post
Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts. This is the kind of technical discussion i'm looking for since I've exhausted my abilities. I did want to question a portion of your theory. You mentioned that the front axle can never be driven faster than the rear, but my understanding of xdrive is that it can transfer 100% of the torque to the front. This is needed when a car has the rear wheels on ice and the front wheels have grip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_xDrive The description section on that link also says that, but to give you a better source i think i can find one of the e9x technical documents (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...mm_xdrive.html) that goes into more detail. Also the difference that you calculated for my setup is within a few 32nds of uneven treadwear so I still can't understand why it didn't work fine.
This is marketing speak getting the best of us. 100% of the torque transferred to the front wheels does not mean that 100% of the power is transfered to the front wheels. Basically they are saying that if the rear wheels are spinning with 0 traction the front wheels can pull the car on their own as long as there is traction for the fronts. This does not mean that the system can stop the rear wheels and only power the fronts. The rear driveline cannot be disengaged or clutched in any way. Only the front driveline is clutched.
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      08-13-2014, 09:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
Interesting - however, I put the same size tires on my car (225/35 | 265/30 - within the 1% rolling diameter difference and within 2 rpms) and immediately experienced the same issue as the OP. Binding when making tight turns and a feeling of slipping gears. This was not present on my stock setup and as soon as I took the above mentioned tires off and put stock sizes on the issue went away.

As I explained the fronts should be the same diameter or larger by 1% when compared with the reara. The fronts should not be smaller diameter by any amount. I have similar problems as the op with my 225/40 265/35 18 inch setup which is actually a bigger difference than his setup. Not sure why he lost a clutch actuator and I haven't but there are a lot of variables to consider and it could just be luck of the draw.

Basically stick with square setups or fronts that are the or greater in diameter by 1% when compared to the rears.
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      08-14-2014, 08:10 AM   #40
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For what it is worth, this is my summer setup on Michelin Pilot Sports and I have no drive-ability issues. I have only run this setup this summer so can't weigh in on long term. I like them a lot, great handling and the best gas mileage I have had with the car. 21.3 mpg combined at 36 psi all around.

VMR 713 Hypersilver Wheels 8.5x19 ET35 with 235/35ZR19 Michellin Pilot Sports, 9.5x19 ET33 with 265/30ZR19 Michellin Pilot Sports, OEM TPMS
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      08-14-2014, 10:09 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '02onthebrain View Post
For what it is worth, this is my summer setup on Michelin Pilot Sports and I have no drive-ability issues. I have only run this setup this summer so can't weigh in on long term. I like them a lot, great handling and the best gas mileage I have had with the car. 21.3 mpg combined at 36 psi all around.

VMR 713 Hypersilver Wheels 8.5x19 ET35 with 235/35ZR19 Michellin Pilot Sports, 9.5x19 ET33 with 265/30ZR19 Michellin Pilot Sports, OEM TPMS
235/35-19 front with 265/30-19 rear is a great setup. No one will have any problems caused by sizing with the xdrive system when running this setup. 235/35, 275/30 will work great as well.
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      08-14-2014, 12:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priority 1 View Post
So my last thoughts are that the construction of the PSS with its twaron fibers makes the tires act differently than normal, and that the measured rim width could cause a difference.

With the 225/35R19 and 265/30R19 they have measured rim widths of 8" and 9.5" respectively. I mounted them on style 313 wheels which are 8" and 9" respectively. So maybe since the stretch was different from front to rear it changed the rolling diameters disproportionately. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on measured rim width differences with the wheel causing diameter changes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
*Bump*

For the same reasons as the OP I purchased a set of 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 tires as it was supposed to be one of the closest setups within the 1% diameter spec. TireRack also said this was the recommended setup and size over others.

I wanted to see what the outcome was - were you able to use this setup when you put it on the Hunter machine with "transaver" or did you get a new setup?

The vehicle also at times feels like it is slightly slipping during slow shifts or a slight jerk and I am concerned it is the tire size. It is not very noticeable but does give me a slight concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5809 View Post
Well 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 is well within the 1% threshold... yet it gave the OP problems and appears to be giving me problems as well. Its hard to believe that everyone says that if you are less than 1% there is no issue but yet there is. I don't think I will deviate from stock sizes again.
I am running 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 on 313's (19x8 and 19x9) with Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110's. I've been running this setup for 3 summers, which probably equates to 7K total miles. I have not had any issues.
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      08-14-2014, 12:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipstic View Post
I am running 225/35/19 and 265/30/19 on 313's (19x8 and 19x9) with Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110's. I've been running this setup for 3 summers, which probably equates to 7K total miles. I have not had any issues.
Probably differences in tire construction. You are also running narrower rims than most of us with 19s which does have an effect on the overall diameter. Another thing I notice is that you don't really drive your car.... I think the longer you drive it, in a variety of conditions, the more likely this will cause a problem.
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      08-14-2014, 08:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtaccord View Post
Probably differences in tire construction. You are also running narrower rims than most of us with 19s which does have an effect on the overall diameter. Another thing I notice is that you don't really drive your car.... I think the longer you drive it, in a variety of conditions, the more likely this will cause a problem.
You could be right about running narrower wheels making an impact and how much people are stretching their tires.

Logically I would think that going off of the revs per mile that TireRack posts would give you an accurate indication of how close you are front to back...unless the numbers are incorrect of course. Even with the differences in tire construction if it's softer/harder it would impact both the front and rear tires and be net neutral, right? I could definitely be wrong, but that's the way I'm thinking about it. (This assumes you're not doing anything crazy with PSIs and you're not fitting a 275 with tire on a 7" wheel paired with a 215 tire on a 10" wheel.)

You're correct that I do not put a lot of miles on my car, but it seems from reading posts on this forum that people have issues right away when they put on a staggered tire/wheel setup that the transfer case doesn't like rather than seeing issues after 10k, 20k 30k miles down the road.

To me, it seems like some transfer cases are very sensitive to staggered setups and some are not. This guy has been driving for over 60k with a 1.3% difference with no issues. His front tires are much smaller than his rear tires too. Although I do really like the theory about how the TC works and ideally running a larger tire up front.
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