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      03-27-2014, 05:20 PM   #1
Smiley913
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S55 vs N54 dyno characteristic

I think the dyno graph shape for the S55 and N54 is very similar. I am not talking about numbers but the characteristic of the HP and torque lines.

Link to N54 stock dyno:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432677

Link to S55 manufacture "dyno":
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=893935

Both torque curves have the following characteristics: start with sharp rise, flat middle, and drops off at the end.
HP curve: start HP line slope is higher compared to middle, flat end.

Does this mean the S55 will feel similar to N54/N55?
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      03-27-2014, 05:39 PM   #2
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It will feel different @ top end.

N54's HP falls down after 5800 RPM while S55 will produce max HP from 5500 to 7300 RPM.

S55 will have best of both Turbo (low RPM torque) and NA engine (top end HP) according to spec sheet.
Hopefully that will be how the car actually drives.
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      03-27-2014, 11:16 PM   #3
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Thumbs up

Regarding the characteristics, you're right when discussing the stock torque and power curves, but as soon as the coding is cracked and somebody optimizes a tune for E85, look out! My dyno from earlier this year with a blend of E85 and 91 octane, netting an E60 blend, is shown below.
Note that this is with my daily driven fuel blend and tune as better numbers are achievable when cranking up the boost and more timing advance.

I hope the S55 torque curve is like the N54 but even better, as I love mine. It's a tire shredder, but man is it fun to drive.



Link to Video of Dyno Run shown above
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      03-28-2014, 12:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
I hope it's like the N54 but even better, as I love mine...



http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937787
Every time I see your car in your sig.....man it looks good
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      03-28-2014, 05:26 AM   #5
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You cannot really compare the two power curve images you provided. One is a marketing "cartoon" while the other is a chassis dyno chart. Both are imprecise in their own way. To do an apple to apples comparison, we should use both the marketing cartoons. I used the 1M power curve here. IMO, the S55 will feel much stronger on the top end due to the broader power plateau and higher overall output with much more useable power.

Since the S55 is a FI engine, it will also be closer to the N54 in terms of feel than to the S65. I am not yet convinced this is a good thing. I guess I will find out when I pick-up my M4 this coming July.
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      03-28-2014, 10:37 AM   #6
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Apparently the new N55s had a slight tweak to their turbo (or the exhaust part of it) and are seeing a more flat curve at the top rather than the insane drop off everyone hates.

BMS is testing out the electronic wastegate version of the newer ones and has a 2014 435 putting down over 400whp and says there is still room for growth. The curve looks nice and pretty near the top. Color me and my '12 335 jealous.

Let's hope BMW was on to something and the true power curve is exactly what they're painting in their cartoon. The newest development of the N55 makes me optimistic.
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      03-28-2014, 10:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Apparently the new N55s had a slight tweak to their turbo (or the exhaust part of it) and are seeing a more flat curve at the top rather than the insane drop off everyone hates.

BMS is testing out the electronic wastegate version of the newer ones and has a 2014 435 putting down over 400whp and says there is still room for growth. The curve looks nice and pretty near the top. Color me and my '12 335 jealous.

Let's hope BMW was on to something and the true power curve is exactly what they're painting in their cartoon. The newest development of the N55 makes me optimistic.
incredible that the electronic wastegate has made that much of a difference in tuning potential.....

the m3 is a different ball game as its twin turbos vs single, different internals, different cooling system, different turbo placement etc....
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      03-28-2014, 10:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
incredible that the electronic wastegate has made that much of a difference in tuning potential.....

the m3 is a different ball game as its twin turbos vs single, different internals, different cooling system, different turbo placement etc....
Agreed, can't really compare the M3 to the n55, I just wanted to point out that they may have learned something in developing the //M car as that small tweak on the N55 has basically added 30whp to a similarly tuned car in the alpha version. It also probably explains why they revised the MPPK numbers to be a bit higher than previously.

//M cars should be loads of fun.
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      03-28-2014, 10:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Agreed, can't really compare the M3 to the n55, I just wanted to point out that they may have learned something in developing the //M car as that small tweak on the N55 has basically added 30whp to a similarly tuned car in the alpha version. It also probably explains why they revised the MPPK numbers to be a bit higher than previously.

//M cars should be loads of fun.
do you have any links on where this change is explained in more detail? id love to learn more about exactly how this has resulted in more power.

I am not worried at all about power in the m3. I think the car will absolutely rip, and there will be more power on the table once the tuners get the cars and get cracking.

One thing that would be nice is if the cooling system is as good as I hope it is. The n54/55 cars basically need IC upgrades in stock form, even the 1M which had a more robust system (mainly oil coolers and secondary radiator).
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      03-28-2014, 11:56 AM   #10
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Given that what we feel (at least if we only consider the butt-o-meter), moment by moment, instantaneous acceleration, is governed by the shape of the torque curve, I suspect they will feel quite similar. They will certainly feel more similar than the new M3 will feel to the current one.

Sure the car will be substantially faster, will make better sounds (than the N54) and this will also mask some of the overall similarity. It is hard for us to be fully unbiased and separate each of our senses (visual, inner ear (acceleration), ear (acoustics), vibration, etc.). The overall shift to the right of the torque curve will also mask some of the similarity.

Some of the short shifting we've seen in the M3/M4 videos also speaks to engine character and feel and this bolsters my point of view.
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      03-28-2014, 03:25 PM   #11
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I'm hoping this new M feels like the N54 because the N54 rocks!

: )
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      03-28-2014, 06:39 PM   #12
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The info requested about the electronic waste gate tuning improvements is found on that other forum. Good stuff by Terry as usual.
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23709

As for the S55's sound, the OEM exhaust tone is pretty bland if you ask me, but then again so is the N54's. By the time you remove the cats from the downpipes to reduce turbo lag and upgrade the mufflers it will sound really good; it won't be as good as the V8 S65, but few sounds are.

I'm counting on the S55 to come from the factory with much improved cooling and be ready to withstand track duty out of the box. If it didn't, I wouldn't even consider making the switch.

To maximize the N54's potential and fully enjoy it on a track, just take a look at the mods in my sig. I had a major focus on cooling (i.e. - dual oil coolers, larger intercooler, water wetter additive with only distilled water in the radiator, m3 bumper for better airflow, etc...). Even upgrades to the fuel system help as E85 burns cooler than traditional fuel and much cooler than race gas - the NGK 5992 plugs with tighter gaps are needed for such high blends of the corn fuel.
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      03-28-2014, 07:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAgent View Post
I'm hoping this new M feels like the N54 because the 335is N54 rocks even harder!

Fixed
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      03-28-2014, 08:25 PM   #14
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
... water wetter additive with only distilled water in the radiator,..l.
You know that is a scam right?
Anything that reduces the boiling point (surface tension) will reduce the cooling capacity...
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      03-28-2014, 08:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
... water wetter additive with only distilled water in the radiator,..l.
You know that is a scam right?
Anything that reduces the boiling point (surface tension) will reduce the cooling capacity...
It's not a scam , it actually increases the waters boiling point and prevents micro bubbles from forming in the radiator . Those bubbles cause reduced heat transfer from the motor to the radiator . I see an avg decrease in water temps on track of 15 degrees using it with water vs antifreeze /water mix . Not sure where you pulled its a scam from but you're dead wrong .
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      03-28-2014, 09:09 PM   #16
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Agreed. I run about 20 degrees cooling in my track car with Water Wetter.
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      03-29-2014, 07:16 AM   #17
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Haha reduce the boiling point.
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      03-29-2014, 01:41 PM   #18
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Exclamation yes WW does reduce the boiling point

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      03-29-2014, 02:18 PM   #19
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Once you let your car get to 305F, the additive is pretty much a moot point.
You have a bigger problem on your hand. I know first hand...

http://my350z.com/forum/maintenance-...eavy-pics.html
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      03-29-2014, 10:00 PM   #20
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Exclamation The point is

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///ADMAN View Post
Once you let your car get to 305F, the additive is pretty much a moot point.
You have a bigger problem on your hand...
that 100% water makes the most difference, and additives are not usually allowed on track anyway.

The interesting part of the graph is below 250F...
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      04-04-2014, 09:14 AM   #21
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OCD kicking in again

regarding wording here:
It doesn't reduce boiling point.
It decreases the residual heat in the block, by more efficient heat transfer.
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      04-04-2014, 09:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackLight View Post
that 100% water makes the most difference
^ This

It has not much to do with boiling point, but rather with specific heat capacity. Water is a very efficient medium to convey heat energy (ie, you need a good amount of energy to raise a given amount of water by 1 degree). Adding additivies (such as glycol) is great to prevent freezing and corrosion is the coolling system, but it reduces the specific heat capacity of the fluid in the cooling system. This is very well portrayed in the graph in the previous post where it shows cooling time depending on the fluid mix.
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