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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Has my car been Un-PPKed by my service center? (Dyno charts included)
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      11-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #1
rallybull
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Has my car been Un-PPKed by my service center? (Dyno charts included)

I gave my car for service a few days back and ever since then the car has been "feeling" like the pre-PPK days. That aggressive throttle mapping is gone - The car does not seem to downshift so aggressively in comfort mode. It also feels a bit slower. However the sports display still shows 400 lbft max torque. Is it possible for the engine to be detuned back to pre-PPK (while still retaining the PPK sports display)?

Unfortunately I do not have a pre-PPK dyno.

I took it to a dynojet just now and here are the results.
The results are disappointing.
I had disabled DSC. Was in 4th gear (8 speed AT)

EDIT: I just realized that the 4th gear has a gear ratio of 1.67. The gear that has a 1.0 gear ratio is the 6th gear. Not sure if that matters in the dyno output.

What do you guys think of the dyno?
Will my SA even entertain me?

************************
EDIT: DAY 2 DYNO RESULTS
************************

Just came back from another another dyno session. I've updated the images in this post to reflect the latest dyno results.

The results are very different for the torque and very slightly improved for the power.

Result summary:
max whp achieved: 286 hp
max wheel torque: 322 hp ( )

So assuming 15% loss, the engine is making about 336hp and 379 lbft.

How come today's results are so much better for the torque? Here are some things I could think of:
1) Carried out the dyno in 5th gear as opposed to 4th yesterday.
2) AC was turned off today
3) It was cooler by 3 degrees.
4) I went WOT at lower rpm (about 2K) today.


Why am I still getting lesser power compared to others who have the PPK? I don't know frankly.

But seeing these torque results, I guess the PPK is actually there. I had been driving in sports mode for a long time and switching over to comfort maybe played tricks with my mind about the car having lost power. buildbright was probably right (about it being in the mind)
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Last edited by rallybull; 11-02-2013 at 01:35 PM..
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      11-01-2013, 03:36 PM   #2
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That's going to be hard to argue because you cannot prove the actual drivetrain loss for this particular dyno. With a 15-20% range of loss, your middle run would be producing anywhere from 322hp-343hp, which is right in line with what the MPPK advertises.
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      11-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
That's going to be hard to argue because you cannot prove the actual drivetrain loss for this particular dyno. With a 15-20% range of loss, your middle run would be producing anywhere from 322hp-343hp, which is right in line with what the MPPK advertises.
yes but others have seen significantly higher outputs. For example, with a 15% loss Dinan estimated it at : 336 bhp / 377 lb-ft

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=820511

I'm making what I though an untuned N55 makes.
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      11-01-2013, 03:59 PM   #4
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yesterday i dyno'd my car higher temp than you still runs alot better ( mppk only)

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      11-01-2013, 04:01 PM   #5
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chapman bmw?
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      11-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2michael23 View Post
chapman bmw?
yes... Chapman in chandler...
I might just ask my SA if they updated any software on the car...but I wanted to first know what the forum members think about it.
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      11-01-2013, 04:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait View Post
yesterday i dyno'd my car higher temp than you still runs alot better ( mppk only)


Do you have the 8AT? What gear did you do the dyno? I think I made the mistake of dyno-ing the car in 4th gear, when I should have actually used the 6th gear.
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      11-01-2013, 05:26 PM   #8
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I'd say you've been "un-PPK'd" because my Dynojet #s on a fresh (under 3000 miles) N55 w/MPPK were 304 WHP and 308 lb-ft torque at the wheels. Big discrepancy between 280 and 304.
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      11-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
Do you have the 8AT? What gear did you do the dyno? I think I made the mistake of dyno-ing the car in 4th gear, when I should have actually used the 6th gear.
yes 8AT and used 5th gear. only ran once fyi
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      11-01-2013, 05:45 PM   #10
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You can not compare other users dynos. Some are looser or tighter depending. The whole idea of a dyno is compare your baseline. I would go talk to your service department and maybe ask for a reflash. not saying this is the case but sometimes it is because you are use to the extra power.
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      11-01-2013, 05:58 PM   #11
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Definitely looks like stock numbers. Not sure, but there would logically be an easy way for them to read the software and figure out if it's got the ppk software or not. From the dyno, it looks like it does not which would be sad and one of the things I joked about possibly happening when they first announced the ppk.

I'd ask the SA to check and show some sort of proof that your car has the ppk software running.
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      11-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
I'd say you've been "un-PPK'd" because my Dynojet #s on a fresh (under 3000 miles) N55 w/MPPK were 304 WHP and 308 lb-ft torque at the wheels. Big discrepancy between 280 and 304.
Yup! That is what is bugging me no hell....could different dyno jets/different cars yield so much difference with the same tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
You can not compare other users dynos. Some are looser or tighter depending. The whole idea of a dyno is compare your baseline. I would go talk to your service department and maybe ask for a reflash. not saying this is the case but sometimes it is because you are use to the extra power.
yes, totally get the baseline thing. I kick myself for not having dynoed the car before. Also, I have given it a thought whether the whole thing is just in my mind, but then the difference in pickup and the throttle mapping seems significant. I still remember the "kick" in comfort mode that happened with a bit of throttle that was accompanied by a quick downshift and the generous amount of torque... that thing is gone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Definitely looks like stock numbers. Not sure, but there would logically be an easy way for them to read the software and figure out if it's got the ppk software or not. From the dyno, it looks like it does not which would be sad and one of the things I joked about possibly happening when they first announced the ppk.

I'd ask the SA to check and show some sort of proof that your car has the ppk software running.
I plan to get the car dynoed again tomorrow morning -- this time in 6th gear (just to rule out any variances due to the 1.67 gear ratio in the 4th gear).

One more thing I just noticed. The sports display does not seem to be going beyond 260hp even with WOT at 65 mph. Earlier it used to go to 320hp. I'll try to confirm this again in some time (want the car to cool down)
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      11-01-2013, 08:58 PM   #13
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Your torque curve doesn't look right either. It's peaking way later than it should.
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      11-01-2013, 10:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait View Post
yesterday i dyno'd my car higher temp than you still runs alot better ( mppk only)

Mine were similar to yours - 290hp and 320tq.
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      11-01-2013, 10:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Your torque curve doesn't look right either. It's peaking way later than it should.
That may be because I was not shifting early into the 2nd --> 3rd --> 4th gear. By the time I entered 4th gear I was already at about 2700 rpm, and then I went WOT.

I'll be doing another dyno tomorrow. I'll try to go WOT at about 2K rpm (just don't want to over-tax the engine by going WOT at 1400 rpm )

I need to keep one more thing on my mind tomorrow - to turn off the AC, not sure if that helped reduce the numbers today.
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      11-01-2013, 11:12 PM   #16
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Dyno with DIN correction instead of SAE

Realized one more thing. I was using the SAE correction factor instead of DIN. DIN CF gives a significantly higher reading:
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      11-01-2013, 11:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait View Post
yes 8AT and used 5th gear. only ran once fyi
Actually 5th gear may be the best gear to use since in 6th we would easily hit the limiter speed.
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      11-02-2013, 02:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
Actually 5th gear may be the best gear to use since in 6th we would easily hit the limiter speed.
The best gear to use on a dyno is the one with the closest ratio to 1. Not sure which that is on the 8AT off hand.


/Edit/ Wow, just did a search and found out 6th gear has the 1.00 ratio. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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      11-02-2013, 03:21 AM   #19
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i hit the limiter on 6th and at about 6.7-7.0 rpm not sure but it doesn't require more gears to hit 260. and am sure about that it will hit the limiter.
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      11-02-2013, 01:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait View Post
i hit the limiter on 6th and at about 6.7-7.0 rpm not sure but it doesn't require more gears to hit 260. and am sure about that it will hit the limiter.
About the limiter, I had a BIG surprise today during the dyno. I'll be starting a different thread for that. Stay tuned

EDIT: Here is that thread: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=908632


By the way I updated the original post with latest dyno results.

Last edited by rallybull; 11-02-2013 at 01:46 PM..
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      11-03-2013, 07:22 AM   #21
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unsure why your call is feeling sluggish, but it is possible you're just getting used to the crazy amount of power, lol!

It would be difficult for the dealer to un-PPK your car and not remove the sports display, which was part of the programming, and not get codes from the open cut out in the air box (I would imagine)....

Those are GREAT numbers. One key thing that you should remember when dyno'ing...turn your AC off! I've got some time on my hand starting in Dec/January, and plan on getting Dyno'ed then now that I'm down here in NJ....
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      11-03-2013, 08:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
About the limiter, I had a BIG surprise today during the dyno. I'll be starting a different thread for that. Stay tuned

EDIT: Here is that thread: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=908632


By the way I updated the original post with latest dyno results.
Hi RB, your new numbers now mirror mine. I can still chirp the tires in 1st gear ( and other gears if the road is bumpy ).
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