BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-24-2013, 10:02 AM   #1
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Suspension Finished, Bilstein B12, M3 sways, LSD and more

One of my biggest complaints about this car from the factory was the suspension. It just didn't cut it, at all... Poor dampening, weak bushings, lack of roll resistance. Inadequate for a proper sports car which surprised me coming from BMW. Having seat time behind stock cars and modified cars alike from a 370Z to a Z06 I was shocked by how weak it was. So I choose my pieces carefully correcting each of my complaints and now I am finally done. This is how I choose to setup my car bearing in mind a "reasonable" budget, daily use and HPDE/AutoX time. This is how the car should've felt from the factory. Here's the final list.

-E93 M3 sway bars front and rear
-Wavetrac 3.08 LSD
-Powerflex rear subframe bushing inserts
-Dinan front camber plates
-Bilstein B12 suspension (custom valved Bilstein struts/dampers with Eibach springs)
-Alignment: -2.25 front and rear / 0 toe all around

The install work took time and was done in stages. The subframe bushing inserts were not fun, but made a very significant difference in feel. Beforehand the rear end of the car felt as if it was disconnected and hard to locate under extreme forces. Now it actually feels like it's part of the car. The limited slip is single handedly a MUST have for any enthusiast. If you don't mind the factory open differential, cool. But for me being able to put the power the rear wheels properly and be able to control slides more accurately was critical. It operates smoothly as if it was an OEM component. I really like the simplicity of the Dinan plates. I was able to dial in over the amount Dinan claimed which was a nice surprise. They utilize the factory strut top mounts for comfortable, noise free operation with just a bit more camber if you're the driver that wears through the outside edges. The E93 M3 convertible sways made a massive difference in body pitch while loaded into a corner. For whatever reason I had to modify the bushings and brackets to get them to fit properly. The front one goes in easily, but the rear requires you to drop the subframe so it's wise to do this at the same time as your rear subframe install.

My latest change was the Bilstein B12 kit. I haven't seen it done so much here in the United States, but it's really a great kit. For $8xx you get custom valved Bilstein monotube dampers and progressive rate Eibach springs. The spring rates aren't substantially different than the factory rates, but that's nice for maintaining ride comfort. It also comes with bump stops front and rear. I reused the factory front strut tops with my Dinan plates so that made the install a bit more annoying because I had to swap the front struts top from my stock suspension to the Bilstein/Eibachs. The more aggressive valving of the dampers keeps the car planted and firm while not being harsh. I actually found the car is MORE forgiving over certain tarmac. The dampers articulate faster than the factory twin tubes at low damper speeds which actually makes the ride more complaint and helps keep the tire in contact with the tarmac. You know that feeling of the factory suspension crashing constantly over small and large bumps alike? That's gone. Everyone seems to feel the need to go to coilovers, but I think that's silly and unnecessary.

Here are some pictures.













Appreciate 3
Bimmer TV125.00
      03-24-2013, 10:12 AM   #2
greensto
Wild Card
greensto's Avatar
United_States
90
Rep
683
Posts

Drives: 1M Conversion
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rockville, MD

iTrader: (2)

Nice write up! Glad to hear such great improvements. You're right that the factory suspension just doesn't cut it- even for street use.
__________________

Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you.


Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 10:24 AM   #3
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greensto View Post
Nice write up! Glad to hear such great improvements. You're right that the factory suspension just doesn't cut it- even for street use.
Thanks! Agreed.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #4
r0nd3L
Second Lieutenant
United_States
50
Rep
211
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naples, FL

iTrader: (0)

Very nice setup!

I'm really curious about the inserts. I think yours is the second review I ever read about them. I'm really tempted to install those! Could you elaborate more? Did those eliminate that side jiggle when hitting bumps? Do they transfer more noise and harshness to the body? Also, did you leave stock diff bushings?
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 02:29 PM   #5
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10512
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

First nice writeup. Your car now has that proper "mean" lowered stance.


But why didn't you go with the M3 front control arms and thrust rods and tie rods? And in back why not go with the M3 tension rods. I plan on installing all the M3 bits one day. But for me the biggest change in handling was when I changed my rear axle bushings to the M3 units.


Quote:
Originally Posted by r0nd3L View Post
Very nice setup!

I'm really curious about the inserts. I think yours is the second review I ever read about them. I'm really tempted to install those! Could you elaborate more? Did those eliminate that side jiggle when hitting bumps? Do they transfer more noise and harshness to the body? Also, did you leave stock diff bushings?

There have been more than just a few guys here who have run the rear axle "inserts". Most have gone with the M3 units, bc they simply work. I know 1Addict member Elsabor67 tried the power flex inserts... but he still had some rear end wiggle... so he went with the M3 units. He is quite happy now with the M ones now.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 02:38 PM   #6
r0nd3L
Second Lieutenant
United_States
50
Rep
211
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naples, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
There have been more than just a few guys here who have run the rear axle "inserts". Most have gone with the M3 units, bc they simply work. I know 1Addict member Elsabor67 tried the power flex inserts... but he still had some rear end wiggle... so he went with the M3 units. He is quite happy now with the M ones now.
What I meant to say, I've only read one or two reviews. I know several more people installed them, but didn't provide any review about them. Or maybe I just can't find those posts

I also read Elsabor67's posts and didn't see anything about jiggle, just some more harshness at speed.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #7
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10512
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0nd3L View Post
I also read Elsabor67's posts and didn't see anything about jiggle, just some more harshness at speed.

I know when I talked to Nick (Elsabor67) about the inserts he wasn't totally happy with them. Thats why he went with the M3 units. He is a believer now.

But yea... I know what you mean about reviews... I have not seen many either. I posted one when I had my rear bushings replaced with the M3 ones. Here is the link in case you have not seen it before...

Dackel's replacement of rear suspension OE bushings with M3 ones…
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1#post11189793
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 04:13 PM   #8
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Thanks. I didn't go with all of the M3 links simply because of cost. I prioritized first, getting camber. Second, making better use of the rear end with the differential and subframe inserts. Third, reducing the roll with the sway bars. And lastly, giving it better control with the dampers and springs. I'd do the links, but it's difficult to justify when I go through a set or two of tires over the spring/summer.

The Powerflex subframe inserts are good alternatives to the M3 bushings. Are they as good? Probably not, but considering I did this in a garage on jack stands it's a lot easier to simply slip them in through the tops and bottoms. Here's a picture of what they look like. They slip into the gaps of the factory subframe bushings. They're very resistant to compression. With the M3 bushings I would've had to pick up that press to push the others out.



Been driving all day. The car still isn't laser precise due to the progressive soft springs and still using the factory non-M links, but the suspension makes a TON of grip and it is still very fast... Loving this.

Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 04:47 PM   #9
Elsabor67
aiming for 450.....
Elsabor67's Avatar
United_States
301
Rep
2,910
Posts

Drives: Totaled :-(
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Louisiana

iTrader: (28)

Garage List
2009 135i  [10.00]
Hi,

Those were the ones I used. They made the back more planted but the vibration because of the offset of the subframe made it a no-go for me. They give a good improvement but they weren't as solid as I wanted. That was why I decided to do the M3 subs.

Interested in the Bilsteins. Where did you get them? I have the Eibach pro-kit right now but I always like to look for more improvement and Bilsteins were the shock of choice on my old E30 with H&R springs.
__________________
Quote from Ezeedee regarding car mods:
"you're only done when you sell the car "
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 05:08 PM   #10
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

I got them from Tire Rack. Not many vendors that carry them here in the US. They're manufactured in Germany so you should be able to get them from a good source.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...ase+Model&cat=
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2013, 06:17 PM   #11
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10512
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post

Interested in the Bilsteins. Where did you get them?

Nick I always order my Bilstein's from SHOX.com (for my past cars) They will beat anyone's price on suspension shocks/goodies.
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #12
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3202
Rep
7,860
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

So wait, what is the procedure for the powerflex inserts? I was under the impression that it was the same as replacing with the M3 bushings.

Great writeup. Do you have any input on how the Bilstein B12s are working versus Koni Yellow?
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
RimasRS
Colonel
RimasRS's Avatar
85
Rep
2,438
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 SD
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
So wait, what is the procedure for the powerflex inserts? I was under the impression that it was the same as replacing with the M3 bushings.

Great writeup. Do you have any input on how the Bilstein B12s are working versus Koni Yellow?
For inserts you don't have to press out and in bushings you don't need bushing tool. Also you can lower subframe less.

About B12 I also would like to hear more. I think same thing coming to my car

Last edited by RimasRS; 03-25-2013 at 04:06 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 04:12 PM   #14
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3202
Rep
7,860
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Ah, thanks Rimas. Figure if I gotta drop the subframe I'll just swap the bushings for M3 bits. More time intensive but might as well.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #15
RimasRS
Colonel
RimasRS's Avatar
85
Rep
2,438
Posts

Drives: BMW X3 SD
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

OP what about rear M3 sway bar how that feels different? increased/decreased understeer/oversteer?
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 05:21 PM   #16
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

I love the B12 kit so far. It's a stellar suspension setup for the money. I haven't driven a 135i with Koni Yellow's, but I have on the E36 M3 chassis. They're a bit more compliant, softer bump dampening than the Bilstein dampers. The Bilstein dampers are pretty firm. That's what I was going for a soft spring with a firm, durable damper. Bilstein dampers have been known to be able to take a lot of abuse so that's one of the reasons I went with them over the Koni Yellows.

I did both the front and rear sway bars at the same time as the front so the balance stayed relatively similar to the stock car. But I also dialed in some negative camber up front, added the rear limited slip and did the subframe bushings all in one go so my car tends to be nice a neutral with oversteer easily inducible with throttle and some trick steering. Everyone tends to do the front sway bar by itself which would likely make the car understeer massively on a road course. I can see it making sense though for an autocross focused car with huge front tires and a ton of negative camber for some serious turn-in bite.

As is, I can feel the OEM 135i suspension arms bending under extreme cornering forces, but this is a pretty well rounded setup. M3 arms would be the next logical step. I was able to hunt down a semi-stock 1M on the track though with just a reflash, HPDE brake pads, high temperature brake fluid, camber plates and 245 Hankook RS3s so you don't necessarily need much to go fast if that's your goal. Just need to be a fast driver.
Appreciate 1
      03-25-2013, 06:04 PM   #17
1speedbike
Brigadier General
1speedbike's Avatar
728
Rep
3,272
Posts

Drives: 2022 X4 M40i, 2008 135i
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MKE

iTrader: (15)

The car looks really great, and I'm glad you're having fun with it! Haven't seen anyone do that bilstein setup, so that's cool. How are you liking the LSD? I've heard some varying things. Any particular reason you got a gear type over a clutch type?

I would definitely recommend the front M3 arms as the next thing you do. Even if you're very happy with the suspension as is, I would get them for the steering feel alone even if they didn't stiffen up the front or add some negative camber. I can feel every little bump in the road, without the wheel being jittery or obnoxious.
__________________
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived... Mmhm.


Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 08:28 PM   #18
lastMleft
Major
lastMleft's Avatar
United_States
30
Rep
1,364
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
I love the B12 kit so far. It's a stellar suspension setup for the money. I haven't driven a 135i with Koni Yellow's, but I have on the E36 M3 chassis. They're a bit more compliant, softer bump dampening than the Bilstein dampers. The Bilstein dampers are pretty firm. That's what I was going for a soft spring with a firm, durable damper. Bilstein dampers have been known to be able to take a lot of abuse so that's one of the reasons I went with them over the Koni Yellows.

I did both the front and rear sway bars at the same time as the front so the balance stayed relatively similar to the stock car. But I also dialed in some negative camber up front, added the rear limited slip and did the subframe bushings all in one go so my car tends to be nice a neutral with oversteer easily inducible with throttle and some trick steering. Everyone tends to do the front sway bar by itself which would likely make the car understeer massively on a road course. I can see it making sense though for an autocross focused car with huge front tires and a ton of negative camber for some serious turn-in bite.

As is, I can feel the OEM 135i suspension arms bending under extreme cornering forces, but this is a pretty well rounded setup. M3 arms would be the next logical step. I was able to hunt down a semi-stock 1M on the track though with just a reflash, HPDE brake pads, high temperature brake fluid, camber plates and 245 Hankook RS3s so you don't necessarily need much to go fast if that's your goal. Just need to be a fast driver.
How much of a drop with the B12? and how does the B12 compare to let say kW2? In your original post you mentioned not needing coils can you elaborate?

Thanks....
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2013, 09:06 PM   #19
Mstandard
For Pony!!!
Mstandard's Avatar
Canada
16
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: 2015 328i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Québec | CAN

iTrader: (0)

Are the shocks in the B12 Pro-Kit the same as the Bilstein HD Shock Tirerack sells?
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2013, 08:27 AM   #20
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1speedbike View Post
The car looks really great, and I'm glad you're having fun with it! Haven't seen anyone do that bilstein setup, so that's cool. How are you liking the LSD? I've heard some varying things. Any particular reason you got a gear type over a clutch type?

I would definitely recommend the front M3 arms as the next thing you do. Even if you're very happy with the suspension as is, I would get them for the steering feel alone even if they didn't stiffen up the front or add some negative camber. I can feel every little bump in the road, without the wheel being jittery or obnoxious.
The limited slip is amazing. I enjoy the car so much more now with it. I notice it during fast take offs from a dead stop, power delivery on turn exit and especially when in a drift. In my opinion, it's not a complete sports car without some form of a limited slip differential. I went with the Wavetrac over say an OS Giken because of cost, noise and reliability. I pieced the Wavetrac together myself outsourcing the machine work to the ring gear to a shop in Florida, picked up some axel shaft seals, fluid and let EFI Logics do the install. I was able to do it for almost 1/2 the cost of what it would've been if I had just bought a package from HP Autowerks or wherever. I also choose it because of the way in which it operates versus a clutch type differential, which are typically need more maintenance and make more noise in normal operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukuss View Post
How much of a drop with the B12? and how does the B12 compare to let say kW2? In your original post you mentioned not needing coils can you elaborate?

Thanks....
It's the same as the Eibach Pro Kit springs which I believe is about an 1" or so all around. I never bothered to measure the exact difference versus stock.

I think people just automatically think "I need coilovers" when they consider new suspension setups for their cars. Entry level coilovers are a waste of time to me. There are little to no performance gains, if not making the car worse, cost more and typically aren't as durable because the shock bodies don't resist corrosion as well etc. Maybe good for someone looking to "slam" their car, but otherwise it just doesn't do it for me. You'd be surprised at how well a car can perform on just a nice, quality set of dampers like a Koni or Bilstein. Companies like them have been in the damper game for years and really know how to make a quality performance damper. I went with the B12 because it included a set of springs WITH custom valved Bilstein dampers for only slightly more than the cost of dampers by themselves. While I haven't gone so far as to analyze the shock dynos for each setup I was considering and compare their dampening characteristics and blah blah. I knew they'd be a solid setup as I have experience with Bilstein's before. I've spoken to suspension guys who run in Grand-AM and they told me they use Bilstein dampers for the Daytona 24hr race and use Ohlins dampers for the other races because of their reliability. That says something to me. I believe you can top most entry level coilovers in performance, price, and durability with a simple spring/shock combo. If you need more than you should be looking at Bilstein PSS10's, Ohlins, TC Klines, AST or some custom setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstandard View Post
Are the shocks in the B12 Pro-Kit the same as the Bilstein HD Shock Tirerack sells?
I'm pretty sure it's the same damper, the Bilstein B8 damper model I believe, but the ones included in the B12 kit are custom valved for the Eibach Pro Kit springs it comes with. Don't quote me on that though...
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2013, 09:24 AM   #21
Zombie1
Colonel
United_States
171
Rep
2,347
Posts

Drives: BMW 135i 2010
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Island long

iTrader: (6)

Stance looks great dude
__________________
Mods:-Berkexhaust -alpinaB3flash -CobbAP -Cobb FMIC -ER charge pipe tialQ bov -M3 front sway bar -M3 subframe bushings -M3 front upper and lower control arms -M3 guide rods -M3 rear upper control arms -Mfactory LSD -defiv lockdown kit -TC Kline SA coilovers /camber plates- HP rear toe arms
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #22
IGoFast1589
Captain
IGoFast1589's Avatar
49
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie1 View Post
Stance looks great dude
Thanks man. Wasn't even going for stance, but I am so pleased with the looks now. The front fenders are completely filled with tire and wheel.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
135i, b12, lsd, m3 sway bar

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST