Changed out my Rod Bearings - 08' E90 M3 Supercharged

[Crazy Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Boo-E

+1. I'm thinking about changing mine out if it's not cost prohibitive.

Should be able to have a shop replace them for under $2k including parts.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874582

[Someone?]

Originally Posted by ///M-Night

What was the cost of replacing the bearings if u don't mind me asking?

Vac told me its about $2700,Labor, coated bearings($489.95), ARP($299) rod bolts, which seems kinda fair. But for you people that think you can have it done for $1000 ARE NUTS, its $800 for the parts alone +15+ hours of labor at , at least $100+ per hour through a shop that actually knows what there doing.

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

150k miles is a mediocre lifespan for any modern engine that isn't in a racecar or some rare exotic. I wonder if they would have awarded it all those "engine of the year" awards if this information you mentioned was more well known (assuming that Dinan knows what he's talking about).

I would think Not, it really doesn't deserve a single award given the thing doesn't last worth a shit, the dam bitch about the whole dam thing is that all BMW had to do is , is either make the crank the right size or design the bearings a little tiny bite bigger, Doesnt it seem simple for the 2nd most profitable car company in the world?

[FogCityM3]

It's 2007 and the S85 and S65 are exotic engines compared to what was out there at the time (and also had the worlds most sophisticated ECU). As far as I know there are only two engines that produced the same type of power curve as the S65 (one was Porsche and the other was Ferrari). I also wonder how the Audi RS4 V8s are holding up.

Also, Dinan builds motors for racing in the Rolex /Daytona series. They do know what they're talking about. There are some great videos on youtube when they developed parts for the S85. They even found a miscalculation made by BMW for the air intake on the E60 M5 that was subsequently corrected in the M3. (Also for those that point to the Alexshop Dinan stroker that didn't produce power, is obvious that not opening the throttle by 100% from 7500 rpm up and setting ignition targets at 26 or whatever low number it was means its a software tune problem that can be easily rectified).

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

150k miles is a mediocre lifespan for any modern engine that isn't in a racecar or some rare exotic. I wonder if they would have awarded it all those "engine of the year" awards if this information you mentioned was more well known (assuming that Dinan knows what he's talking about).

[DrakeKemper]

Originally Posted by ///M-Night

What was the cost of replacing the bearings if u don't mind me asking?

The cost was $2027 I believe, no more than $2100. ARP bolts, high performance coating, road bearings + labor.

I don't care if it was recommended or not, it was strictly preventative in my opinion to help the engine survive longer, period.

I would rather pay $2k than $15k for a new engine. Especially after spending over $10k supercharging it, it's mindless to not replace them.

Yes, one of the sets had bad wear on it, Zolti at AutoTalent said that even though there were no issues, it was a smart decision to change them out and he personally would have done it.

Runs perfectly after the change.

[DrakeKemper]

Originally Posted by Boo-E

+1. I'm thinking about changing mine out if it's not cost prohibitive.

^^^^^^^

[DrakeKemper]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer

How often was the oil changed? Just curious.

The previous owner changed it according to the maintenance plan.

I will be changing it every 2500 miles

[EvenSteven]

2500 is way excessive for synthetic oils. Half intervals (or quarter if you're very paranoid) is more than enough.

[Cool Steel]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

So how come bmw in all their marketing about the M3 conveniently forget to notify you of this little factoid that their engines don't have much of a life expectancy

There isn't a single thing on the M3 including the engine that is remotely exotic. It's a mass produced higher performance variant of BMW's volume-selling grocery getter 3 series. No one buys an M3 to drive it one weekend a year like they do with Lambos or Bugattis. People buy an M3 to drive on the road, a lot, and put a lot of mileage on them.

You can get a C6 Z06 or GTR that will smoke an M3, and beat the shit out of them daily, and they still will probably be more reliable than an M3.




One such Honda engine is that in the S2000. Remember it? Made more hp/L than the S65, and also revved to a whopping 9000 rpm. And I'm sure it was built to very close tolerances. Yet it can still keep going on and on without eating up its bearings.

Agreed 100%.........the problem I have with this cars engine is price to risk. Perhaps others who are accepting of the bearing wear and engine failures have not owned other performance cars that are lower priced and do not have these problems. So relative to nothing...this is acceptable wear etc. However, as a previous Vette owner who took his 430 HP engine to 700 HP with approximately 12.5k in upgrades with no engine problems. I find myself asking the question...is this car worth hanging onto with its high price tag, bearing wear risk and engine problems, high priced parts and modifications with minor gains?

I also had a dirt cheap crappy SRT4 with no problems that I modified to hell and these POS cars go to 150k to 175k modified miles with minor issues.....if a 15k car can do it...then why cant a 75k car do it? Less for more = ripped off.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

So how come bmw in all their marketing about the M3 conveniently forget to notify you of this little factoid that their engines don't have much of a life expectancy

There isn't a single thing on the M3 including the engine that is remotely exotic. It's a mass produced higher performance variant of BMW's volume-selling grocery getter 3 series. No one buys an M3 to drive it one weekend a year like they do with Lambos or Bugattis. People buy an M3 to drive on the road, a lot, and put a lot of mileage on them.

You can get a C6 Z06 or GTR that will smoke an M3, and beat the shit out of them daily, and they still will probably be more reliable than an M3.




One such Honda engine is that in the S2000. Remember it? Made more hp/L than the S65, and also revved to a whopping 9000 rpm. And I'm sure it was built to very close tolerances. Yet it can still keep going on and on without eating up its bearings.

There are quite a few 60k mile M3's out there, you almost make it sound like the S65 will self destruct when it reaches 100k miles.

So far the few engine failures have been SC'ed and or 6MT cars, with some blaming a money shift on the S65.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682601

It's kind of silly to compare the reliability of a 240hp engine vs a 414hp engine. I have a friend with a blown motor on his Z06...my stock S65 is still goin strong.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Cool Steel

Agreed 100%.........the problem I have with this cars engine is price to risk. Perhaps others who are accepting of the bearing wear and engine failures have not owned other performance cars that are lower priced and do not have these problems. So relative to nothing...this is acceptable wear etc. However, as a previous Vette owner who took his 430 HP engine to 700 HP with approximately 12.5k in upgrades with no engine problems. I find myself asking the question...is this car worth hanging onto with its high price tag, bearing wear risk and engine problems, high priced parts and modifications with minor gains?

I also had a dirt cheap crappy SRT4 with no problems that I modified to hell and these POS cars go to 150k to 175k modified miles with minor issues.....if a 15k car can do it...then why cant a 75k car do it? Less for more = ripped off.

I'm 37 yo, I dont see myself in a Dodge Neon...I think it's a cool car if you're in your late teen's, early 20's

And Thank-God, I've havent experienced all these problems some here are mentioning. I can still autocross the M3 without looking like a boy racer.

[fbm3cab]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

So how come bmw in all their marketing about the M3 conveniently forget to notify you of this little factoid that their engines don't have much of a life expectancy

There isn't a single thing on the M3 including the engine that is remotely exotic. It's a mass produced higher performance variant of BMW's volume-selling grocery getter 3 series. No one buys an M3 to drive it one weekend a year like they do with Lambos or Bugattis. People buy an M3 to drive on the road, a lot, and put a lot of mileage on them.

You can get a C6 Z06 or GTR that will smoke an M3, and beat the shit out of them daily, and they still will probably be more reliable than an M3.

BMW doesn't market the M3 as a grocery getter and doesn't claim that the S65 is a 200k plus engine, they don't extend warranty to modded cars for a reason, but it does seems that many owners are pushing those kind of miles when they don't abuse their car.

The S65 and the DCT transmission are both comparable to some exotics at a fraction the cost, not as much now as when the car was first launched 7 years ago.

I am not the only one that uses a more practical vehicle for my daily "grocery getter" or as a beater and I don't know anyone (outside of collectors) that only drives there car ONE WEEKEND a YEAR, exotic or not.

I could give a crap how fast other cars are and have zero interest in a vette or GTR?

I would never keep a M3 out of warranty for obvious reasons, either flip the car every few years or xtend the warranty and you can go 6 years and 200K KM.

How many miles on your 2008? Is it out of warranty?

[Cool Steel]

There is a thread dedicated to the bearing problems in this car. If you read it and understood it than you would be concerned too. If you choose to live in denial and ignorance then that's your choice.

[Cool Steel]

Originally Posted by Dashman

I can read and understand very well, but choose to treat what I read (especially on the internet) with professional skepticism. Not agreeing with your interpretations and opinions doesn't mean I am in denial and ignorant.

Professional skepticism?

The reason you may be reading similar comments of mine is because there are so many "my car is crapping out on me" threads so I comment. If you stop reading the "my car is breaking down" threads then you wont see my comments on other car engines that are better.

[quiksi]

so what's the expected life of the upgraded bearings and related hardware?

[e-solo]

This thread originally was for the OP to share his experience with us about his bearings, etc. I'm new here and have noticed that when I look for good info I can usually find it, but I need to get through so much banter first. It's an M3 forum, most of us are defensive about the car we adore and spent a crap load of money on.

These cars, like ALL cars, have their issues. We are trying to band together and relieve some headaches that problems cause us by learning from each other's problems. Why reinvent the wheel when we can learn solutions from each other.

My two cents. I apologize for being so idealistic, but whatever.

[fbm3cab]

Originally Posted by e-solo

This thread originally was for the OP to share his experience with us about his bearings, etc. I'm new here and have noticed that when I look for good info I can usually find it, but I need to get through so much banter first. It's an M3 forum, most of us are defensive about the car we adore and spent a crap load of money on.

These cars, like ALL cars, have their issues. We are trying to band together and relieve some headaches that problems cause us by learning from each other's problems. Why reinvent the wheel when we can learn solutions from each other.

My two cents. I apologize for being so idealistic, but whatever.

I hear ya bro.

I begin to feel sad that I own the same type of vehicle, but I do enjoy my M3

I also wonder if the members that post in this manner even own an M3 or if they are the people that call us pricks and give us the finger when they see us on the road???

[DrakeKemper]

Originally Posted by EvenSteven

2500 is way excessive for synthetic oils. Half intervals (or quarter if you're very paranoid) is more than enough.

My car is supercharged, wear is much more than NA

[DrakeKemper]

Please stay related to the topic or stop posting. Thank you. I hate clouded threads.

This is about rod bearings, half of the forum talks about them, I changed them, simply sharing what I found.

That's what this thread is about.

[DrakeKemper]

Originally Posted by quiksi

so what's the expected life of the upgraded bearings and related hardware?

The bearings should have no problem lasting 150k miles. Just like your engine should run without changing your oil for 30,000 miles. SHOULD being the key word.

These will be fine when the car is up past the 100k mile mark no problem, and the car is SC'd.

[fbm3cab]

Originally Posted by DrakeKemper

Please stay related to the topic or stop posting. Thank you. I hate clouded threads.

This is about rod bearings, half of the forum talks about them, I changed them, simply sharing what I found.

That's what this thread is about.

Yes...Well said.

Have you posted these pics on the Rod bearing thread to get the opinion from the guys that are posting there?

If not then you should so that you can get their opinion as some of the guys that post daily seem to have the expertise to add some insight to the state of those bearings at that amount of miles, also I think they would like to add your bearing pics to the list they are compiling.


Official S65 Bearing Specification/Clearance Wiki in the Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications section

[EvenSteven]

Originally Posted by DrakeKemper

My car is supercharged, wear is much more than NA

That still seems extremely excessive. That would be like every 6-8 weeks, way too much hassle. There are plenty of high mileage blowers out there, so the additional wear can't be THAT bad? Does it really stress the components 3x more than normal (assuming a more reasonable 7500 intervals for NA engines rather than BMW's 15000 recommendation)?

Makes the whole blower thing seem like a terrible idea if you are right.

[///M-Night]

Originally Posted by e-solo

This thread originally was for the OP to share his experience with us about his bearings, etc. I'm new here and have noticed that when I look for good info I can usually find it, but I need to get through so much banter first. It's an M3 forum, most of us are defensive about the car we adore and spent a crap load of money on.

These cars, like ALL cars, have their issues. We are trying to band together and relieve some headaches that problems cause us by learning from each other's problems. Why reinvent the wheel when we can learn solutions from each other.

My two cents. I apologize for being so idealistic, but whatever.

+1