[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Oil pressure is definitely a factor on some of these cars. But I just wanted to reclarify that a restrictor WILL NOT INCREASE oil pressure, it will decrease it by limiting volume flow as consumed by the turbo. Flow reduced-pressure reduced.

How is it that a smaller opening does not increase pressure? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just curious. Flow and pressure are two separate things. Decrease your opening size, with a dedicated pressure and pressure will increase. Flow will be reduced, yes, but at a higher pressure. As an example, turn on a water hose, then fully open a nozzle. Now close it, to any degree and watch how the pressure increases. The water will travel farther, due to higher pressure, while less water is released. This also should. Have adverse effects on te rest of the engine, increasing pressure across the board. I'm sure the oiling system can and will correct this if needed, but too high of pressure is not a good thing. Especially if it's an after thought on a tested turbo, and not long term tested like the units were prior to selling. Again, not trying to argue, just clarifying.

Thanks in advance Rob.

[Joshboody]

Imagine putting 2 water hoses together, but with a restrictor inbetween them. the pressures on each hose will be different.

If it's the seal, I would think revving while at neutral would show some indication, because CC pressures are low and oil pressure is dependent on rpm.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Imagine putting 2 water hoses together, but with a restrictor inbetween them. the pressures on each hose will be different.

If it's the seal, I would think revving while at idle would show some indication, because CC pressures are low and oil pressure is dependent on rpm.

You're saying if its the seal than smoking would be most evident in low RPM, idle situations? When mine smokes, which is noticeable more sometimes than others, always comes on when I get off throttle coming to a stop, or getting going after being stopped at a light say...

The strange part is the car doesn't smoke during/after doing back to back pulls...its once you go into low RPM easy throttle territory that its noticed...

Here's one scenario:

1) Cold morning start, no smoke

2) 10 minute off-boost easy morning drive to Starbucks, oil doesn't even get a chance to warm up to get the oil needle to start moving

3) Shut the car off, go into Starbucks, get the coffee

4) Turn the car back on after about 5 minutes it was off while getting coffee, I get smoke on startup

5) Go on the highway, do a bunch of high boost pulls, no smoke

6) Get off the highway, idle at a street light, no smoke...get on throttle to get going easy, notice smoke

7) drive easy over to the garage, park, car is idling, rev it multiple times, no smoke/burning smell

After Rob fixed my first set on which the front turbo seal/thrust bearing went, put them back on the car the car immediately after had this issue but I thought it was some oil that was in the exhaust just burning off. To this day (3-4 months) it still burns/smokes as indicated above sometimes. Not too annoying as it doesn't happen all the time but when it does its enough to be pretty noticable through the rear windshield from the driver's seat...

[Joshboody]

NO, I meant revving... high rpm, but while not in gear... neutral i meant to say. at this time oil pressures are high, but load, cc, and exhaust pressures are all low.

In my logic this would clearly indicate seals, but if it mainly happens at other times, you may need to look at other root cause(s).

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

NO, I meant revving... high rpm, but while not in gear... neutral i meant to say. at this time oil pressures are high, but load, cc, and exhaust pressures are all low.

In my logic this would clearly indicate seals, but if it mainly happens at other times, you may need to look at other root cause(s).

i'll give it a shot but from what I've seen that particular scenario produced a ton of smoke while I was at the shop when they looked at the first set of RBs where the front turbo seal pooped...the entire shop was engulfed in blue smoke

at this time with the current units, i've tried that exact scenario and the car doesn't smoke under that particular condition (neutral, revving around 6k rpm, idle)...

[Clap135]

Dzenno your description sounds like blow seals. On my previous platform cars with blow turbo seal would only smoke after some time idling and low rpm driving. Sorry to say but I'm 99 percent sure your 2nd set is on its way out.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Dzenno your description sounds like blow seals. On my previous platform cars with blow turbo seal would only smoke after some time idling and low rpm driving. Sorry to say but I'm 99 percent sure your 2nd set is on its way out.

If that's the case then I got the 2nd set busted from Rob as it smoked right after install without doing a single WOT pull...interestingly enough, front turbo was the one that went the first time, ever since putting the 2nd set on the car it was the rear turbo pipe that's been smoking off/on...i know Rob fixed the front one but the rear he said was still in good shape so I'm not sure if he touched the rear turbo that time..

I'll move the downpipes out of the way this weekend and check for in/out play on both of them like last time

arggghhhh

What about Joshboody's comment and my response to revving in neutral...it doesn't smoke at all when I do that...wouldn't that make it pretty much not a seal issue?

Check this out, I've filmed it a while back with my GoPro on my rear bumper and sent this to Rob to see...the vid was taken after the car was already warmed up, I got off the highway and placed the cam on the bumper and went back on the highway:

*** Some details on this vid:
1) Puff of smoke on throttle lift at 0:25sec, rear turbo
2) 1st WOT at 2:46sec
3) 2nd WOT at 3:20sec
4) 3rd WOT at 4:33sec
5) 4th WOT at 5:06sec

[Clap135]

Raving in neutral could put enough pressure on the seal to reduce stop smoking? Get it to idle and smoke and then rev it. When u let off it should resemble seafoam.

Originally Posted by dzenno

If that's the case then I got the 2nd set busted from Rob as it smoked right after install without doing a single WOT pull...interestingly enough, front turbo was the one that went the first time, ever since putting the 2nd set on the car it was the rear turbo pipe that's been smoking off/on...i know Rob fixed the front one but the rear he said was still in good shape so I'm not sure if he touched the rear turbo that time..

I'll move the downpipes out of the way this weekend and check for in/out play on both of them like last time

arggghhhh

What about Joshboody's comment and my response to revving in neutral...it doesn't smoke at all when I do that...wouldn't that make it pretty much not a seal issue?

Check this out, I've filmed it a while back with my GoPro on my rear bumper and sent this to Rob to see...the vid was taken after the car was already warmed up, I got off the highway and placed the cam on the bumper and went back on the highway:

*** Some details on this vid:
1) Puff of smoke on throttle lift at 0:25sec, rear turbo
2) 1st WOT at 2:46sec
3) 2nd WOT at 3:20sec
4) 3rd WOT at 4:33sec
5) 4th WOT at 5:06sec

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Raving in neutral could out enough pressure on the seal to reduce stop smoking? Get it idle and smoke and then rev it. When u let off it should resemble seafoam.

Yeah, nothing like that happens, can't reproduce it that way

By the way, just checked with Rob, "the ones in the 1st set where the front turbo seal went, were not rebuilt, refurbished, or whatever, they were completely replaced brand new CHRAs. The original rear did appear to be in mint shape even tho the front was trashed. Replaced both to play safe. Had no idea what they had sustained while in service, for some of the time the rear must've been acting alone as no way was the front doing much work."

[Will335i]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Oil pressure is definitely a factor on some of these cars. But I just wanted to reclarify that a restrictor WILL NOT INCREASE oil pressure, it will decrease it by limiting volume flow as consumed by the turbo. Flow reduced-pressure reduced. I also do not see how OCC will affect Oil pressure, but it does affect the PCV system. The OCC affects BOTH the high and low pressure side of the PCV system. At high loads, it has forward flow through it towards turbo. At low loads, it has reverse airflow through it as internal check valve pulls fresh air through it. Both ways it acts as a restrictor to some degree in the system. (this is the part no one has considered when running them). No more talk necessary about OCC affecting OIL pressure, no one is saying that it has that affect.




The issue is not widespread. Throw enough of them on, certain cars will spring up. RB's and TD's are essentially the same thing, but RB's have spent alot more time under development in order to be a direct bolt on.



This is correct. Not sure the ID of the oil feed line they use, but the OEM feed lines are quite large. Its possible they could be smaller, and if they were I doubt it was "by design".



That drain looks like the OEM drain. I have read ASR used to employ a very small -8AN custom return. That is very small (but this is a BB turbo, requires less oil to operate as well). The OEM drain is much larger, and is what the RB Drain has always been. The OEM drain really also can not be improved on much, without very extensive modifications.



George,

Thanks for the input. You are definitely not the only one. Have you ever ran an OCC?

Rob,

Not sure if you are even looking but if you wanted another car to do some testing on I'm willing to offer mine up and I am local to the St. Louis area. I was looking in to upgrading to your turbos in the near future and would love to help figure this issue out.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Will335i

Rob,

Not sure if you are even looking but if you wanted another car to do some testing on I'm willing to offer mine up and I am local to the St. Louis area. I was looking in to upgrading to your turbos in the near future and would love to help figure this issue out.

That's awesome and that's what we really need here..i'm getting a bit tired after all this time troubleshooting everything remotely...having someone local should be the 1st order of business to getting this resolved 100% and quickly...however, at the same time, yours might not have this issue IF it really is something that varies from one car to the next

[Adam Way]

Rob, thanks for the thorough reply. For those reading this thread, Rob has really gone above and beyond in trying to help me fix the issue I am having. I received a call from him after dinner the other night. He made a similar call to my mechanic last night. In this day in age where most companies have an 800# with an annoying phone tree of sorts, it is refreshing to have someone that is do dedicated to the cause. Thank you.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Adam Way

Rob, thanks for the thorough reply. For those reading this thread, Rob has really gone above and beyond in trying to help me fix the issue I am having. I received a call from him after dinner the other night. He made a similar call to my mechanic last night. In this day in age where most companies have an 800# with an annoying phone tree of sorts, it is refreshing to have someone that is do dedicated to the cause. Thank you.

+1

[georgelb]

Originally Posted by Adam Way

Rob, thanks for the thorough reply. For those reading this thread, Rob has really gone above and beyond in trying to help me fix the issue I am having. I received a call from him after dinner the other night. He made a similar call to my mechanic last night. In this day in age where most companies have an 800# with an annoying phone tree of sorts, it is refreshing to have someone that is do dedicated to the cause. Thank you.

You can't ask for much more than this; that is awesome.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Elie335

TD04L, I haven't made any thread on the forum about this, just some members around here knows what's going on.

I'm already running these turbos for a while now, car running strong at 14 PSI with a custom ESS flash tune.

tough, I'm consuming quarter oil every 700 miles or something.

PS: TD04L got the same size as a garrett GT28.

How did you get TD04L to fit there?

[TurboBimmer]

Does anyone with catted downpipes and/or secondary cats have the same problems?

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

Does anyone with catted downpipes and/or secondary cats have the same problems?

There is a good possibility they do, however, the cats will mask the smoke more than catless. I beleive Anemouse runs a completely stock exhaust with RB turbos, maybe he can chime in.

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

There is a good possibility they do, however, the cats will mask the smoke more than catless. I beleive Anemouse runs a completely stock exhaust with RB turbos, maybe he can chime in.

So the cats would just "hide" the problem, not prevent it from happening?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

So the cats would just "hide" the problem, not prevent it from happening?

Well the cats could have 2 effects... hiding an issue, BUT also create more back pressure which could potentially keep a more "correct" pressure differential across the seal.

[Will335i]

It's hard to tell without taking a look at the turbos. Cats are designed to collect unburnt fuel and other fumes to prevent them from entering the atmosphere.

Someone would need to do testing to see if they are just masking the problem or if the restricted flow is actually preventing the issue. I am leaning towards just masking the problem since there are cars with "stock" setups burning oil.

This shouldn't deter people from going to upgraded turbos. They are making awesome power without the loss of driveablity for the cost. These systems are still new to the market so they are going to go through some growing pains to get it down right. From what it sounds like Rob has been more than willing to replace anything that has an issue and to help with trouble shooting.

[dzenno]

The only issue with replacing things is labor costs involved in pulling turbos out to service them when shit goes sideways...pay to play lol...again, none of this may be related to the turbos themselves and we may just be looking at a byproduct of the overall environment

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Not sure if this has any relevance but a guy I know on a big turbo (gt42r?) with a different platform needed to add an oil pump to his setup because he had drainage problems and was losing mass amounts of oil out the exhaust on low load.

I'm not claiming to be an expert just letting you know what he did to solve his problem, albeit being a different platform.