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      04-17-2014, 02:23 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS View Post
I would think a blackstone report wouldn't pick up anything on that 16k bearing issue...not until the bearing got worse and more material underneath (copper) started to get into the oil and show up on the report. It does look like some contamination of some sort.
Still would like to see one to confirm, since the bearings have already been pulled.
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      04-17-2014, 04:49 PM   #310
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My main reason for the change was this damn forum constantly bringing it up and putting doubt in my mind.

Second, I am the forth owner of a car with almost no miles, why? I can only assume it had been used and abused. Unfortunately I have no oil samples prior to the one I have taken when replacing the bearings. I can see copper on bearing 4. The report should show as much, it will be a good indication whether it's possible this would of been detected when there is an issue.
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      04-18-2014, 02:39 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndau View Post
My main reason for the change was this damn forum constantly bringing it up and putting doubt in my mind.

Second, I am the forth owner of a car with almost no miles, why? I can only assume it had been used and abused. Unfortunately I have no oil samples prior to the one I have taken when replacing the bearings. I can see copper on bearing 4. The report should show as much, it will be a good indication whether it's possible this would of been detected when there is an issue.
Man this forum have a strong influence...! Joking aside, one can't help being affected. Since reading into the bearing side I am quite annoyed that I didn't take a oil sample when changing a few weeks ago - my first/13.8k miles, cars third in total.
- Any idea how many miles it needs before a sample analyze makes sense?
- Guess the only way is when changing oil, no secret access to suck up a sample rather than pull bottom plug?

thanks
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      04-18-2014, 10:44 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Man this forum have a strong influence...! Joking aside, one can't help being affected. Since reading into the bearing side I am quite annoyed that I didn't take a oil sample when changing a few weeks ago - my first/13.8k miles, cars third in total.
- Any idea how many miles it needs before a sample analyze makes sense?
- Guess the only way is when changing oil, no secret access to suck up a sample rather than pull bottom plug?

thanks
Not that is really addresses your problem but you could sample without a full change.

-Warm up engine (not too hot).
-Get ready to get oily...
-Pull plug, wait a few seconds, grab your sample
-Feverishly get plug back in
-Top off oil
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      04-18-2014, 11:47 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Man this forum have a strong influence...! Joking aside, one can't help being affected. Since reading into the bearing side I am quite annoyed that I didn't take a oil sample when changing a few weeks ago - my first/13.8k miles, cars third in total.
- Any idea how many miles it needs before a sample analyze makes sense?
- Guess the only way is when changing oil, no secret access to suck up a sample rather than pull bottom plug?

thanks
Blackstone sells a pump for $30 that is designed for sucking out an oil sample through the dipstick.
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      04-19-2014, 12:04 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3g View Post
Blackstone sells a pump for $30 that is designed for sucking out an oil sample through the dipstick.
We don't have a dipstick. Maybe getting a sample from the oil filter area which is easy to access might work I don't know.
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      04-19-2014, 08:24 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Man this forum have a strong influence...! Joking aside, one can't help being affected. Since reading into the bearing side I am quite annoyed that I didn't take a oil sample when changing a few weeks ago - my first/13.8k miles, cars third in total.
- Any idea how many miles it needs before a sample analyze makes sense?
- Guess the only way is when changing oil, no secret access to suck up a sample rather than pull bottom plug?

thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony View Post
We don't have a dipstick. Maybe getting a sample from the oil filter area which is easy to access might work I don't know.
The sample needs to be taken from the sump at the end of oil life. Do not take it from the filter area as many contaminants from the element can fall back into the cup area and skew the readings.
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      04-19-2014, 12:42 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
The sample needs to be taken from the sump at the end of oil life. Do not take it from the filter area as many contaminants from the element can fall back into the cup area and skew the readings.
Then that means the only way to get an oil sample is via the drain plugs of the sump. Once again, the genius of BMW in eliminating the dipstick shines through
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      04-19-2014, 02:01 PM   #317
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So just decided the bearings are in perfect shape, but will do an oil analyze once it is time for a change - just for the fun of it...
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      04-19-2014, 06:08 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony View Post
We don't have a dipstick. Maybe getting a sample from the oil filter area which is easy to access might work I don't know.
Of course there is no actual dipstick but I had assumed you could insert the tubing into the fill area and suck some out, at one point I was speaking with someone from BS and they suggested this, although it's very possible that they are just not knowledgeable about the specifics of this car. I never actually ended up trying it and I no longer have the car so I'll have to defer to those who are more knowledgeable, maybe it isn't possible.
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      04-19-2014, 07:26 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
Then that means the only way to get an oil sample is via the drain plugs of the sump. Once again, the genius of BMW in eliminating the dipstick shines through
Correct, pull the back plug and wait 10 seconds then grab a sample then let it finish draining.
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      05-13-2014, 01:30 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndau View Post
Info
Vehicle: 2008 BMW M3, DCT (Australian - Maybe hotter weather)
Production Date: 11/08
Oil Used: TWS Motorsport 10W-60, no data provided on previous oil change
Mileage: ~16,XXX mi (27,000 Km)
Fuel: 93 Oct
Driving Habits: Mostly highway/street driving, no track use

Oil report to follow ETA 2 weeks, photo quality is terrible but I believe I am seeing copper on the edges of bearing 4. Replaced with WPC + ARP when installing SC.

Full Album:
View post on imgur.com



Bearing 4;



Report attached. As some guessed, no elevated copper considering I can see the copper on the affected bearing.

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      05-30-2014, 07:29 PM   #321
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Just had my rod bearings replaced...

I've been following a number of threads on the S65 rod bearing issue and bought an e90 about 2 months ago with 70k on the clock. It had the standard BMW oil changes as part of the included maintenance and while the car seemed to be in great condition, I got concerned over rod bearing wear and decided to get them replaced - a big thanks to the board for all of the information on this potential failure point. As you can see from the photographs they were in bad shape and I'm glad I got them replaced. Unfortunately, I didn't do UOA as the oil was changed when I bought it and had done about 200 miles since the change, so it didn't see like it would have been too helpful.

After reading many threads about the how and why these bearings are failing far sooner than they should I decided that considering this is a weekend car that sees some spirited driving and no track time, it would be best to run Mobil 1 0W-40 rather than the TWS; the weather isn't too extreme in Northern California and gets down to the 30's in winter and up to 100 in summer inland.

I had everything replaced with the newer 702/703 bearings and factory rod bolts. In the event anyone is interested in the oil pressure with the 0W-40 versus the 10w-60 I listed them below. I put a set of Defi Racer gauges in the car and even before changing from the TWS to Mobil 1 I noticed something odd with the pressure. If I floor the throttle when driving or blip it when it neutral the pressure drops by about 5-10 psi and quickly rebounds climbing upwards. I'm not sure if this is because the vanos is running off the main oil pump or not, but I've never seen it happen on any other car - when the bearings were replaced the oil pump and associated pieces looked fine, so I don't know if this is normal or not. I mean't to ask the shop that did the work, but didn't get around to doing so - if anyone has any insight on why this is happening, please let me know. Here are the pressure readings:

Castrol TWS 10W-60:

Oil Temp Ambient Temp Idle 2k RPM 3k RPM @ 6k RPM

Cold 82 F 94-96 PSI
165 F 82 F 55 PSI
210 F 82 F 43 PSI 72 PSI 82 PSI 90 PSI

Mobil 1 0w-40:

Oil Temp Ambient Temp Idle 2k RPM 3k RPM @ 6k RPM

Cold 72 F 70 PSI
165 F 72 F 48 PSI
210 F 72 F 33 PSI 64 PSI 78 PSI 80 PSI

I hope this adds to the thread and if anyone has any insight on the fluctuating oil pressure, please let me know your thoughts - it was occurring with both oils and the car runs and sounds fine. I haven't put enough miles on it to see if it is burning any oil, but will report back. Thanks.
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      05-30-2014, 07:30 PM   #322
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I forgot to mention that the bearings for cylinder 1 start at the bottom.
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      06-01-2014, 03:29 PM   #323
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Good info posted, and its a good thing you changed bearings, however your oil psi results just affirm my notion that 10-60 is not the problem. Norcal is not an extreme climate by any means. 0-40 clearly looses psi during your basic tests, how do you think it will react during 1g 100mph sweepers on a track? Kaboom!

Thanks for adding some tangible info to the thread.
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      06-01-2014, 09:21 PM   #324
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I fail to see how you can conclude anything of the sort from those oil pressure numbers. It's lower because 0W-40 is thinner. It does not mean it's too low or will cause a problem on the track. If you do have oiling problems at high lateral G's a thicker oil is just a band-aid for the problem anyway I think (see: 987.1 Cayman/Boxster S).

You can see how much thicker TWS is at low temperatures though...
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      06-02-2014, 03:40 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719
I fail to see how you can conclude anything of the sort from those oil pressure numbers. It's lower because 0W-40 is thinner. It does not mean it's too low or will cause a problem on the track. If you do have oiling problems at high lateral G's a thicker oil is just a band-aid for the problem anyway I think (see: 987.1 Cayman/Boxster S).

You can see how much thicker TWS is at low temperatures though...
So you running 0-40 in the S54....?

Hows that working out for ya?
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      06-02-2014, 03:54 PM   #326
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Another way to get a sample without draining all the oil is to put the car on ramps and drain the front drain only. You'll get about 1 quart out that way, then it stops. At least that's what it did for me on Race Ramps.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-02-2014, 06:54 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96LTWM3 View Post
Good info posted, and its a good thing you changed bearings, however your oil psi results just affirm my notion that 10-60 is not the problem. Norcal is not an extreme climate by any means. 0-40 clearly looses psi during your basic tests, how do you think it will react during 1g 100mph sweepers on a track? Kaboom!

Thanks for adding some tangible info to the thread.
That's a whole bunch of incorrect info right there. It has all been discussed at great length in the bearing thread.
Oil weight does not have anything to do with pulling oil away from the sump pickup either.
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      06-02-2014, 08:45 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96LTWM3 View Post
So you running 0-40 in the S54....?

Hows that working out for ya?
No, I got rid of the car actually to get something more practical, but I would if I still had it.


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...os-pump-2.html


Troy Jeup has a ton of experience with S85 and seems to put at least partial blame on the oil for the bearing conditions. His crank guy recommends 0W-40.

Not proof at all, but interesting to note from someone who isn't involved in in the discussion here.
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      06-02-2014, 09:21 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96LTWM3 View Post
Good info posted, and its a good thing you changed bearings, however your oil psi results just affirm my notion that 10-60 is not the problem. Norcal is not an extreme climate by any means. 0-40 clearly looses psi during your basic tests, how do you think it will react during 1g 100mph sweepers on a track? Kaboom!

Thanks for adding some tangible info to the thread.
That's a whole bunch of incorrect info right there. It has all been discussed at great length in the bearing thread.
Oil weight does not have anything to do with pulling oil away from the sump pickup either.
Possibly, as it is my unscientific/unproven opinion.

However with all the people saying 10w-60 is wrong, you people advocating 0w-40 don't have enough proven/scientific facts or miles to claim that 0w-40 is better and by how much?

Care to enlighten the community on why a lower engine oil psi wont have a catastrophic effect in high load situations? From my experience most NASA racers use a oem engine and run oem oil. Built motors? Yes those guys might want to tailor their oil for their motors adjusted tolerances. But even most racers racing factory sealed motors to the ragged edge use OEM recommended oil.
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      06-02-2014, 09:26 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96LTWM3 View Post
So you running 0-40 in the S54....?

Hows that working out for ya?
No, I got rid of the car actually to get something more practical, but I would if I still had it.


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...os-pump-2.html


Troy Jeup has a ton of experience with S85 and seems to put at least partial blame on the oil for the bearing conditions. His crank guy recommends 0W-40.

Not proof at all, but interesting to note from someone who isn't involved in in the discussion here.
I read, I don't need to comment to participate.

So your telling me a guy who gets custom cranks ordered has a change of preference of oil? Well that sounds completely reasonable to me! He is altering the clearances from the factory spec. It doesn't prove why you should be using a thinner oil on your oem motor...
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