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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications Igor's 2011 550xi Dyno Logging
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      02-25-2014, 04:51 PM   #1
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Igor's 2011 550xi Dyno Logging

With my most recent acquisition of a 2011 550xi, and my new found interest in the N63's unexplored territory for power improvement. My hands are itching to learn, explore, discover, and confirm any information I hear or find that will further help the development in improvement for the N63 & N63tu.

I officially have access to a Dynojet 224x via a affiliated shop that will help with further testing and development. Since I got the car, I was itching to start doing mods left and right, but as hard as it was, I held out until I got a baseline session of the car in its 100% form.

With that being said...






SHORT NOTES:

- All runs performed in 4th gear, Sport+, DSC off
- Had about 3-4 gallons of fuel left (does it make a difference?)
- Removed charcoal filter for 5th & 6th run (proof that theres no gain?)


Detailed notes:

This is a 2011 M-Sport 550xi, one of the first F10 M-Sports in the country, build date 9/2010 with 44K miles on the clock.

So the car went in fully stock... the shop where I did the dyno specializes in Evo's and STis. The first 2 runs, the car swayed back and forth a little, so on top of the X straps, they added 2 additional straps (1 on each side) to hold it down some more.

Charcoal Filter Fiasco
After the 4th run, I removed the charcoal filters... and did the run, with really weird results. Nearly 25hp loss, and nearly no torque loss, I told them to run it once more right away without shutting down and cooling off. Jumped back up to 383HP/411TQ, still 2HP less.

So.... you be the judge, inconsistent run? or are all your butt dyno's lyin?

My guess is that the 5th run was just a weird run to begin with (I have a video of it if interested). The results woulda been the same had I removed the charcoal filter or not, or was it the fact that I opened the airbox, thus possibly releasing the pressure that was already built up inside the intake box?

Either way, I dont think removing the charcoal filter has any affect on the outcome. The way the filter sits inside the airbox, it leaves about 2" of space right near the inlet for the induced air to bypass and go straight to the air filter, so having that charcoal filter there doesn't restrict the movement of air. One thing I think should be taken into account is that the turbo's don't suck the air from the outside of the car, but rather suck the air that's compressed INSIDE the box into the motor. The air that enters the box will simply hang out in the airbox until the throttle starts sucking it in, and having the charcoal filter placed directly up against the top of the airbox should not be restrictive.

I'm looking forward to comments and opinions, as well as suggestions on what actions I should take on the next dyno runs to follow. I think next time I want to see if theres any difference by having the muffler flaps fully open vs letting them open on their own. The next dyno session will also feature a prototype product

Last edited by Igor_M5; 02-25-2014 at 04:57 PM..
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      02-25-2014, 06:09 PM   #2
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You should put smooth factor to 5. 0 looks to choppy.

I'm sure car needs to adjust a bit for charcole filter removal. Bmw is just drive and learn type of car. And could explain why 1 run later you were back to where you were before you removed them.

I'm glad we have another person helping.

Could you also change the speed on the bottom to rpms.
Looks like your car is losing power too over 5k
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      02-25-2014, 06:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
You should put smooth factor to 5. 0 looks to choppy.

I'm sure car needs to adjust a bit for charcole filter removal. Bmw is just drive and learn type of car. And could explain why 1 run later you were back to where you were before you removed them.

I'm glad we have another person helping.

Could you also change the speed on the bottom to rpms.
Looks like your car is losing power too over 5k
Every N6x car loses power above 5k. I'll have mine dyno'd soon on stock and stage 2 to show this as well....
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      02-25-2014, 06:27 PM   #4
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IGOR.... where did you go for DYNO? Tach Motor Works in Oceanside?
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      02-25-2014, 06:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
You should put smooth factor to 5. 0 looks to choppy.

I'm sure car needs to adjust a bit for charcole filter removal. Bmw is just drive and learn type of car. And could explain why 1 run later you were back to where you were before you removed them.

I'm glad we have another person helping.

Could you also change the speed on the bottom to rpms.
Looks like your car is losing power too over 5k
Factor to 5 and change speed to RPM. Got it.

I'll have him send over the session broken down into 2 or 3 charts so we can see the graph more clearly.

I guess the relearning/adjusting process is a huge factor. Maybe the next session, the first 2 runs on stock should really determine the CFM (charcoal filter mod? lol) benefits... or the lack off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott135i View Post
IGOR.... where did you go for DYNO? Tach Motor Works in Oceanside?
Yep, if you're interested, I can find out if we can double date a session (that sounds dirty ). I plan to stick to this dyno for the remainder of my testing for consistency.
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      02-25-2014, 11:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott135i View Post
Every N6x car loses power above 5k. I'll have mine dyno'd soon on stock and stage 2 to show this as well....
Scott, Do I have to really be super specific every time i type something.

sure they lose power, but not sky rocket downward.

Bryans n63tu didn't neither did terrys 2011.

Only 2 I know that didn't.

So Not ALL lose power (skyrocket downward) after 5k
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      02-26-2014, 12:05 AM   #7
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Same color as mine =D
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      02-26-2014, 09:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
Scott, Do I have to really be super specific every time i type something.

sure they lose power, but not sky rocket downward.

Bryans n63tu didn't neither did terrys 2011.

Only 2 I know that didn't.

So Not ALL lose power (skyrocket downward) after 5k
Yes, when you start to learn and accept that cars dyno differently due to different conditions, like air temps, altitude, gas octane and quality, wheel/tires, gear dyno'ing in, dyno operator, heat soak, dyno equipment, hood open/closed, fans on, ect. Especially turbo cars which dyno less consistently than N/A cars.

I agree not all lose power at the same aggressive rate at high RPMs, but many do. Point here is that variability between cars is normal.

Spend some time looking through N54 and N55 tuned dynos. You'll see....
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      02-26-2014, 07:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott135i View Post
Yes, when you start to learn and accept that cars dyno differently due to different conditions, like air temps, altitude, gas octane and quality, wheel/tires, gear dyno'ing in, dyno operator, heat soak, dyno equipment, hood open/closed, fans on, ect. Especially turbo cars which dyno less consistently than N/A cars.

I agree not all lose power at the same aggressive rate at high RPMs, but many do. Point here is that variability between cars is normal.

Spend some time looking through N54 and N55 tuned dynos. You'll see....
Scott, Look man Dont assume I dont know anything. I dont need to look at anything you suggested. Our cars shouldnt lose over half its boost over 5k. Its doing it now because the cars ecus suck.

Ive had turbo cars, super charged cars, stock and after market. Raced low 10 second cars. Ran circuts in the 600cc and 1000cc Super bikes.

Im looking at your car list, I dont see any real performance cars in their. Just bmws, which Im not arguing you know more then me in. That was never my issue, just the fact that you defend the car to much, and belittle a few people. I didn't even personally see it, till I got a few PMs about it.

Then I re read what you write and you need to relax. You have some knowledge about these cars, but you dont know everything, no one does. Not even tuners.

Thats why they can't break thru the gates of our ECUs.

Everytime I say something, you have your argument. Im not going to go into detail about it here on what was said and what, but just an example is this:

"Yes, when you start to learn and accept that cars dyno differently due to different conditions, like air temps, altitude, gas octane and quality, wheel/tires, gear dyno'ing in, dyno operator, heat soak, dyno equipment, hood open/closed, fans on, ect. Especially turbo cars which dyno less consistently than N/A cars."


Smart ass answer. and NO fucking shit. Consistency who argued this?
I just wrote only 2 cars that I know didn't lose or have a power drop was Terrys and my friend Brian, rest are losing over 40-50-60+hp after 5k.

Nothing consistent about that.

You argued with Arch about LC.
You argued about me about dyno numbers TU Stage 1 vs non tu stage 2.
Which both of them I was right on.

Just stop dude you make me not want to sign on this forum.
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      02-26-2014, 09:12 PM   #10
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Igor:

Very interested in your follow up Dyno with the charcoal filters removed. I thought I actually felt a decrease of sorts, or at least some inconsistency after the removal of mine. I know it makes absolutely no sense that providing less intake restriction would cause a drop in power, but interested to see your follow up #s.

Thanks
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      02-26-2014, 09:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
Scott, Look man Dont assume I dont know anything. I dont need to look at anything you suggested. Our cars shouldnt lose over half its boost over 5k. Its doing it now because the cars ecus suck.

Ive had turbo cars, super charged cars, stock and after market. Raced low 10 second cars. Ran circuts in the 600cc and 1000cc Super bikes.

Im looking at your car list, I dont see any real performance cars in their. Just bmws, which Im not arguing you know more then me in. That was never my issue, just the fact that you defend the car to much, and belittle a few people. I didn't even personally see it, till I got a few PMs about it.

Then I re read what you write and you need to relax. You have some knowledge about these cars, but you dont know everything, no one does. Not even tuners.

Thats why they can't break thru the gates of our ECUs.

Everytime I say something, you have your argument. Im not going to go into detail about it here on what was said and what, but just an example is this:

"Yes, when you start to learn and accept that cars dyno differently due to different conditions, like air temps, altitude, gas octane and quality, wheel/tires, gear dyno'ing in, dyno operator, heat soak, dyno equipment, hood open/closed, fans on, ect. Especially turbo cars which dyno less consistently than N/A cars."


Smart ass answer. and NO fucking shit. Consistency who argued this?
I just wrote only 2 cars that I know didn't lose or have a power drop was Terrys and my friend Brian, rest are losing over 40-50-60+hp after 5k.

Nothing consistent about that.

You argued with Arch about LC.
You argued about me about dyno numbers TU Stage 1 vs non tu stage 2.
Which both of them I was right on.

Just stop dude you make me not want to sign on this forum.


The quote you copied was clearly a smart ass answer to make a point in jest but you obviously didn't see that - the fact you assumed I assumed you don't know anything is funny too. You're the one out there w/ Terry running S1 for the TU, dynoing in your with and without downpipes, having custom exhausts made, ect - you obviously know, care and are interested.

It's a car hobby forum, no need for emotions. You missed the point about the cars losing power. Some did, some didn't - not sure why you're so shocked about that, and that includes both stock and tuned dynos I have seen. Happens all the time with TURBO BMW's as of late which I am very familiar with. They have small turbos and load based tuning that does wacky things sometimes. We'll see more trends here if more people dyno both cars stock and tuned. I've have mine soon and so will Sergey.

I clearly know far from everything, not sure why you're mentioning that. And the tuners know exactly what they need to do, they just cannot do it as they can't circumvent BMW's encryption fully. I don't even believe DINAN has access to all mapping tables and values.

And no need to compare car lists or history. Mine listed is for one, incomplete. The RX7 was a fully built street ported single turbo setup, 135i was RB turbo FBO car which had run all the tunes available, Z4M was a single turbo setup, ect ect. No pissing match here necessary.

There was no arguement with Arch about launch control. I was simply stating a fact that some cars run slower when using it and on the 335xi and 535xi that I used it on, they felt the same as power breaking, just with more finesse. Arch proved that this past weekend, ask him yourself - he ran slower. There is no special 'super fast shifting' in launch control mode - that was the point.

And no need to threathen to leave. Nobody makes you come on here man, don't be silly. I for one value your opinions and input. Let's leave this thread for Igor and his next steps/progress.
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      02-26-2014, 11:22 PM   #12
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Comical.

Now back to Igor.
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      02-27-2014, 02:34 AM   #13
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Lol sorry Phil. Shit just got to me finally. Search my posts and look at the replys always some shit. Couldnt take it anymore. Sorry Igor.. Back to you.
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      02-27-2014, 08:36 AM   #14
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Combat----><---Scott
-----------------^me---------------

On a side note, installed the S1 yesterday. I'll put it right before I head out ot get another dyno to do another baseline, and install it back for a comparison. Should I even bother pulling it out or set it to map 0?
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      02-27-2014, 08:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty
Combat---->&lt;---Scott
-----------------^me---------------

On a side note, installed the S1 yesterday. I'll put it right before I head out ot get another dyno to do another baseline, and install it back for a comparison. Should I even bother pulling it out or set it to map 0?
For the stage 1 I don't think you can set it to map 0 like you can for stage 2. Only thing you can do is set the boost amount to 0 from 2.25 but that might not truly be stock. Best option is to remove again for same day baseline.

The general practice due to the need to adapt is to do your s1 dyno runs first, then remove tune for you baseline runs at the end of your session.
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      02-27-2014, 09:01 AM   #16
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Igor now much those guys charge for Dyno pulls?
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      02-27-2014, 09:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty View Post
Combat----><---Scott
-----------------^me---------------

On a side note, installed the S1 yesterday. I'll put it right before I head out ot get another dyno to do another baseline, and install it back for a comparison. Should I even bother pulling it out or set it to map 0?
Map 0 is the same as stock.

Mike
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      02-27-2014, 06:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty View Post
Combat---->&lt;---Scott
-----------------^me---------------

On a side note, installed the S1 yesterday. I'll put it right before I head out ot get another dyno to do another baseline, and install it back for a comparison. Should I even bother pulling it out or set it to map 0?
Map 0 is the same as stock.

Mike
Mike, the n63 stage 1 has a map 0 adjustment? Thought it was only boost raise and lowering. Good to know.
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      03-07-2014, 06:38 PM   #19
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Igor,

Any update on the 2nd Dyno?

I compared my baseline stock 0 - 60 times (and 20 - 80) to charcoal filter delete w/o BMS I, then BMS I with CF and w/o CF...very surprising results

Same conditions, big losses after CF delete in both cases

Will try one more time tonight, but probably going to reorder airbox lid with CF

Times were not recorded by a sophisticated method, but were very consistent on multiple runs. Also can feel decreased throttle response

Last edited by william_rhettb; 03-07-2014 at 09:11 PM..
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