E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 335i and 135i Differential FAQ (No LSD, really?)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #1
Brian_VACsales
Captain
Brian_VACsales's Avatar
193
Rep
933
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 VF Supercharged, 135i
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA

iTrader: (0)

Post 335i and 135i Differential FAQ (No LSD, really?)

Shortly after the N54 powered 335i and 135i were released, enthusiasts and tuners wanted to ‘fix’ the lack of limited slip differential. Making easy and abundant power was simple with the twin turbo inline 6, but putting it to the ground was not.

Enter the infamous final drive. Open, LSD, welded, bolted, large body, small body, 3.08, 3.46 etc etc. We will try to make sense of everything with this blog entry.

Open vs. LSD:
The 335i and 135i were not offered with a limited slip differential. Yes, BMW sold a twin turbo, 6MT sporty car without a LSD. No factory option, nothing. So, owners had to rely on the aftermarket for a solution. Initially the solution was pretty simply, till BMW switched things up on us.

Open:

LSD – limited slip differential:


Welded vs. Bolted:
Very early 6MT equipped cars had a traditional ‘bolted’ setup where the ring gear was bolted to the gear carrier. Shortly after, the engineers in Munich decided to weld, not bolt the ring gear to the gear carrier. Well, that complicates matters a bit!

Welded:


Bolted: (we are using a bolted aftermarket diff for illustration purposes)



Master Reference Chart:


Does your car have a welded or bolted differential??
See chart above. As you can see, the majority of 335i and 135i owners are blessed with the welded differential. This makes adding a LSD a bit challenging, as the ring gear must be separated from the carrier carefully to ensure it can be re-used. Very few shops can do this properly and consistently, but we pioneered the what we think is the best way of performing this operation.
This is how we do it.




Large or small differential?
There are 2 differential (housing or ‘pumpkin’) sizes. The table above shows which cars have which size. So, a Quaife ATB limited slip unit designed for the 6MT large housing will not work in your 2009 335i automatic. Fortunately, Quaife and Wavetrac have solutions for both the large and small differentials. Here are some pics so you can see the dramatic difference:











Gear Ratios:
See chart above. All 6MT cars were equipped with 3.08 final drive ratios. Automatic cars had 3.46 ratios. Note: we have built a few 3.46 differentials for 6MT cars and the owners were thrilled. They were willing to sacrifice top speed for an incredible power band around town :-) Lastly, DCT equipped cars have 2.56 and diesel cars have 2.81 final drive ratios.

Conclusion:
When you modify your N54 or N55 powered E9X or E8X, a proper differential is an essential modification if you want to put all of that power to the ground. While it is quite confusing, I hope this entry makes it a bit easier to understand.
__________________
Brian Casella
Sales Representative, VAC Motorsports
Office: 215.462.4666 | Fax: 215.462.4667 EXT 13 | Email: brian@vacmotorsports.com

Last edited by Brian_VACsales; 03-05-2012 at 01:49 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #2
Infamous
Secret Asian Man
Infamous's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
1,723
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (6)

awesome informative writeup!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #3
OpenFlash
United_States
1733
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Nice write up Mike!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #4
import36
Burrito bowl connoisseur
import36's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
3,501
Posts

Drives: 2015 Nissan GTR Black Edition
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seven Cities

iTrader: (1)

Sticky! very informative Mike
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #5
rooringhusky
Objects in the mirror are losing
rooringhusky's Avatar
United_States
105
Rep
1,133
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW 335i E92 AW/CR 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Socal (OC/Riverside)

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by import36 View Post
Sticky! very informative Mike
+1 Awesome post Mike...All the info in one spot finally
__________________
PERFORMANCE: JB4 G5 \ Backend Flash \ DCI \ BMS Downpipes \ CX FMIC \ ER Chargepipe \ Synapse BOV \ KW V2 \ Muffler Delete \ CDV \ ZHP Shifter \ Cyba Scoops
FUN: M3 Front \ Mtech Rear \ JL 10W6 \ ModMyNav \ V1 Hardwired \ LUX H8 \ Gloss Black Trim \ Gloss Black Roof \ Cyba Quads \ Cyba Mtech Diffuser
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:10 PM   #6
Fundahl
Captain
United_States
8
Rep
704
Posts

Drives: VO 1M, 300zx TT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Great Post! We need more stuff like this from all vendors!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #7
dzenno
Banned
Canada
268
Rep
5,876
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Great post Mike!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:38 PM   #8
335iJWC
~~~
United_States
24
Rep
592
Posts

Drives: JB 335i-M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Simi Valley

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [9.00]
Great info!!! Now that im hooked on Meth i definatly need LSD!!!
__________________
.
................
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #9
Slidewayz
Major
Slidewayz's Avatar
33
Rep
1,177
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oakland, CA

iTrader: (5)

That 2.81 or 2.56 sounds pretty good for a modded 6MT.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:48 PM   #10
dAng! E90
The bigger they are...
United_States
18
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: Jet Black '07 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pelham, AL

iTrader: (0)

This is sooooo great!!! I am very happy you guys posted this. I will definetly give you a call when I'm ready to do a differential.
__________________
Tom Williams BMW Service Advisor
'07 335i Sport
219M Wheels, MMW CF Lip, Shadowline Taillights, Vishnu Procede, BMS DCI, BMS OCC, Aasco LW Flywheel, South Bend Clutch, Turner 90mm Studs, Stoptech pads rotors and lines, BMS LED Tag Lights, BMS Clutch Stop, BMS Clutch Non-Delay Valve, ACS Style Rear Glass Spoiler
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:49 PM   #11
happy4nk8er
Second Lieutenant
2
Rep
277
Posts

Drives: 335i E92
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Milky way galaxy

iTrader: (0)

Very nice work, finally the definitive word on diffs. this is going to save quite a few future repetitive threads from being created.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
Brian_VACsales
Captain
Brian_VACsales's Avatar
193
Rep
933
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 VF Supercharged, 135i
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidewayz View Post
That 2.81 or 2.56 sounds pretty good for a modded 6MT.
I like the 3.46 idea better ;-) Though, a 600hp car with 2.81 or 2.56 would hit some scary speeds...

Thanks guys. I could have included a ton of additional info, but I figured I'd keep it basic. The internets has plenty of differential info..but nothing 335i and 135i specific.
__________________
Brian Casella
Sales Representative, VAC Motorsports
Office: 215.462.4666 | Fax: 215.462.4667 EXT 13 | Email: brian@vacmotorsports.com
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #13
Zubz
Private First Class
24
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 SS
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal, US

iTrader: (0)

LSD and Ediff

If you put a LSD on are there any electronic concerns? Will ediff go crazy?
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 04:10 PM   #14
Fundahl
Captain
United_States
8
Rep
704
Posts

Drives: VO 1M, 300zx TT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zubin75 View Post
If you put a LSD on are there any electronic concerns? Will ediff go crazy?
Speaking of that, is there any way to disable the ABS system?

The 1M does some weird stuff on radical maneuvers at autocross, I can feel the brakes working when dropping the clutch into first while braking/turning and it stops me from generating a small slip angle through the 180 degree gates.

And this is with TC all the way off...
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #15
Robert@vishnu
United_States
28
Rep
212
Posts

Drives: Corvette C6 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Danville

iTrader: (2)

Great write up and info.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 04:44 PM   #16
335okc
Captain
335okc's Avatar
41
Rep
659
Posts

Drives: e90 335
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: okc

iTrader: (0)

i got a bolted diff, large housing. how hard is it to install quaife (or even wavetrac) ?
is this a direct replacement or will i have to worry about adding/removing shims ?
i'm somewhat familiar with backlash measurement, but i'm not a pro.
nobody around me (okc) has experience installing lsd on e90.
i talked to my euro-shop today, they don't even have the tool to unhook the drivetrain.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 04:58 PM   #17
thwgw24
Major
thwgw24's Avatar
Taiwan
60
Rep
1,065
Posts

Drives: RB PWRED E90 N54 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
07' E90 335i  [0.00]
__________________
RB Turbo/Procede V5/Vishnu PWM Meth Injection Kit/Vishnu DCI/AR Catless DP/AE Performance Exhaust(Sold)/Helix FMIC/Forge DVs/Rixster Vent Boost Gauge/Wavetrac LSD/KW V3/ACT Street Clutch Kit
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 05:04 PM   #18
335iSSA
Captain
Poland
15
Rep
603
Posts

Drives: 07' E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frederick, MD

iTrader: (10)

Are the part numbers for the Quaife the same for all large housings, ie. AT vs.MT?
I've been having noise issues after a recent install and this may shed some light although Quaife should have confirmed based on the provided VIN. I'm a large housing bolted AT and a 10N was installed.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 05:17 PM   #19
Cornhusker
Lieutenant
46
Rep
403
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nebraska

iTrader: (1)

Question, I'm seriously considering buying another 135 or 335i.

Are the bigger diff's stronger?

If so, you can't get a 135i AT with the larger diff, correct?

The only 335i AT you can get with the larger diff and a bolted diff is a build date of 7/07 or earlier, correct?

It's cheaper to put lsd in a bolted diff, correct? By how much?

Thanks, had a 12/06 build 335i for 3 years.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 05:31 PM   #20
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3374
Rep
6,765
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I did a lot of searching in various posts before buying an LSD...this post is very good for those of you looking to research LSD options for you car.

The LSD is one of the best mods you can ever do. Shame on BMW for not including this as an option.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 05:31 PM   #21
Syndicategt
Brigadier General
Syndicategt's Avatar
United_States
153
Rep
3,730
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nor Cal

iTrader: (11)

Great writeup. Quaife LSD was the best mod I ever did to the car (yes better than the Rob Becks). I love the one wheel burn out photo
__________________
2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #22
trialskid
Private First Class
8
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: 08 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Every time I do a burnout in my car I always leave 2 long tire marks. I have an stock diff. Why is this?
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
differential, final drive, lsd, quaife, wavetrac

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST