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      04-24-2014, 11:27 PM   #1
Kkuba
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Thumbs down Blackman's Leather Moorabbin - avoid - Conclusion

Hi all,

Just need to vent as I am fuming at the moment.

I recently decided to get the leather changed on my driver's seat. I rang BMW Brighton (VIC) to ask how much for them to do it, they said they just outsource that kind of work to Blackman's Leather in Moorabbin. So I gave them a call, arranged it, and and now I have a complaint.

I have drafted an email to them, I will just copy and paste so I don't have to retell the story. Feel free to throw any criticisms of the tone or content of the email back at me, as I have not sent the email yet, and am still proof reading and tweaking the formatting etc.

NB. I provided the seat to them by itself, without the car.

I am contemplating ringing them on Monday to ask if I can get the email address of the manager, instead of the just sales staff, but I guess we shall see what their response will be in due course.

Photos included below, sorry if they are big, I wanted to keep the detail for the purposes of the email. I have also only included a selection of the 19 photos, just to give you an idea.



Hi,

I recently purchased a new leather cover for the driver’s seat in my BMW. It was a genuine OEM leather seat cover from BMW, because I wanted to make sure it would look good. Given my past experience with automotive seating, I contemplated fitting it myself. However, not being at all familiar with BMW seats, I was afraid that I could get some things wrong, for example break the plastic clips on the trim pieces, and I was hoping for an immaculate job, so instead I decided to get it done professionally.

After calling several places, I spoke to Blackman’s Leather, and asked some questions. After finding out that you specialise in prestige (in this case BMW) interiors, I thought, despite it being more expensive, it’s the way to go.

I picked up my seat today after having the new leather fitted, and I have to say, I am absolutely appalled at the craftsmanship. I was also very surprised to learn that the operator fitted the leather entirely with the seat folded, as he did not know how to unfold it! This is coming from a BMW specialist.

I have attached photos that are numbered corresponding to the line items below.

1. I was very disappointed to learn that a few of the retention clips on the plastic trim pieces were broken, one trim piece came back loose with the seat, not retained at all, it could be just picked up off the seat. I managed to clip it in, but now it unclips again over rough roads. That is just one example.
2. Another plastic trim had marks from a screwdriver where the operator used the screwdriver to pry the trim piece off.
3. The leather is creased in corners, and around edges, and on most surfaces.
4. There are lumps under the leather, not sure how, but it looks as if material has been folded over underneath. In the picture, you can clearly see a defined bulge, and to the touch, one can feel excess material underneath.
5. Not well illustrated in the photos but, the hinges of the seat back are now exposed as can be seen in (a & b), (c & d) is the passenger’s seat, and how it should look. I would guess this would have something to do with the leather being applied with the seat folded.
6. It appears as though the leather insert tie downs are not tied down.
7. The whole seat back appears to have changed shape completely, but I suspect this might be due to item (6). The insert is now shallower, the bolsters don’t appear to be as pronounced. (a) is the driver’s (b) is the passenger’s for comparison, however, it is much more obvious in person
8. There was grease in several places on the leather, I tried to scrub it off, so it is less obvious now in the photos. Also, more locations that I did not capture.

I have to say, that in its overall presentation, the seat looks worse than before I had the new leather fitted. I am confident that I would have been able to do a better job.

I would like to get this fixed, so please get in touch with me to discuss further.

Regards,


Kuba **********
Applications Engineer (Mechanisms & Glazing)
Product Development - Body Exterior
Ford of Australia
1735 Sydney Rd, Campbellfield VIC
Ph: +61 3 **** ****
M: +61 ************
Email: ********ford.com


2


3a



3d

3e

3g




5b

5c

Last edited by Kkuba; 05-06-2014 at 08:34 PM..
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      04-24-2014, 11:50 PM   #2
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I have lemon white interior too.
Mine is worn pretty badly too.


Sucks to hear about your experience. Let us know how it unfolds..
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      04-25-2014, 07:30 AM   #3
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Ahhh someone else with the same affliction as myself. Expecting tradesmen to do the best they can and not a half arsed job. I cant believe they gave the seat back to you like that. I can guarantee you if it was one of their good mates they would have done an awesome job. Why should their be a difference?? There is a chance that Blackman's might have realised what it was supposed look like if they had the car there to compare the other seat to, but still it is no excuse.

I love the lemon interior by the way. (I was looking for the same when looking for my car, E92). If I needed a leather repair done on my seat, I would have done the exact same as you. Gone to the dealer for an OEM repair using OEM materials so it looks the same as the rest of the interior. The dealer recommended you go to their subcontractor that performs this type of work for them, so in theory the work still should be of OEM or dealer quality.

Before you send a letter, I would go to the dealer and show them the job the place that THEY recommended has done. Let's be honest the installation of the new seat cover is terrible even if they did not have the other seat to compare it with. Its a brand new seat cover and it should look like it when installed on the seat. The dealer should see that as well.

If your dealer is worth anything, they should contact Blackman’s expressing their embarrassment by the type of work they have carried out especially as you had been recommended by them to go there. If you left your car at the dealer for the repair, they would have sent it to them anyway and your dealer would be responsible then. Your dealer should at least be made aware of the type of work that their recommended service provider, Blackman’s Leather is carrying out. See if they will go in to bat for you.

By the letter of the law, your dealer is not responsible for the work Blackman's carried out as you took the seat there yourself, but in everyday life the performance of people you recommend is a direct reflection upon you or in this instance your dealer.

Let us know how you get on. I would be fuming with this well .
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      04-25-2014, 07:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i-boy View Post
Ahhh someone else with the same affliction as myself. Expecting tradesmen to do the best they can and not a half arsed job. I cant believe they gave the seat back to you like that. I can guarantee you if it was one of their good mates they would have done an awesome job. Why should their be a difference?? There is a chance that Blackman's might have realised what it was supposed look like if they had the car there to compare the other seat to, but still it is no excuse.

I love the lemon interior by the way. (I was looking for the same when looking for my car, E92). If I needed a leather repair done on my seat, I would have done the exact same as you. Gone to the dealer for an OEM repair using OEM materials so it looks the same as the rest of the interior. The dealer recommended you go to their subcontractor that performs this type of work for them, so in theory the work still should be of OEM or dealer quality.

Before you send a letter, I would go to the dealer and show them the job the place that THEY recommended has done. Let's be honest the installation of the new seat cover is terrible even if they did not have the other seat to compare it with. Its a brand new seat cover and it should look like it when installed on the seat. The dealer should see that as well.

If your dealer is worth anything, they should contact Blackman’s expressing their embarrassment by the type of work they have carried out especially as you had been recommended by them to go there. If you left your car at the dealer for the repair, they would have sent it to them anyway and your dealer would be responsible then. Your dealer should at least be made aware of the type of work that their recommended service provider, Blackman’s Leather is carrying out. See if they will go in to bat for you.

By the letter of the law, your dealer is not responsible for the work Blackman's carried out as you took the seat there yourself, but in everyday life the performance of people you recommend is a direct reflection upon you or in this instance your dealer.

Let us know how you get on. I would be fuming with this well .
They aren't really 'my' dealer, I have only just bought the car, so I haven't picked one yet, as I haven't needed one yet. I just called them as they are closest to me.

I don't know them, and they don't know me, so I would feel a bit funny turning up with my seat to show them.

Instead, I was thinking that once Blackman's contact me to discuss, I can mention to them that I will be passing on this information to Brighton BMW if I am not satisfied with the solution/end result.
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      04-26-2014, 07:20 AM   #5
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Im very surprised you have had such poor dealings with blackmans, i have had dozens of cars done there of all makes and models on behalf of customers, never once had a drama, always top notch work

very curious to see how this pans out
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      04-26-2014, 08:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kkuba View Post
They aren't really 'my' dealer, I have only just bought the car, so I haven't picked one yet, as I haven't needed one yet. I just called them as they are closest to me.

I don't know them, and they don't know me, so I would feel a bit funny turning up with my seat to show them.

Instead, I was thinking that once Blackman's contact me to discuss, I can mention to them that I will be passing on this information to Brighton BMW if I am not satisfied with the solution/end result.
Ahh. My bad. I thought they were the dealer you used.

Nevertheless, as you have said, it would definitely be a good idea to pass on that information to Brighton BMW. You don't want to sound like, "..if you don't fix my seat I am going tell Brighton's that you do a crap job..". Just let them know whatever happens you are going to let Brighton's know of your situation as they were the ones who recommended Blackman's to you.
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      04-27-2014, 01:50 AM   #7
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I checked the rep for the company and they have 1 bad google review.
I dont know why you asked the dealership where they outsource work to, they are obviously gonna go to the cheapest bidder, and dealerships suck at doing work already.

I also dont know why you went with a crappy leather.

Get a refund through Australian consumer law, speak to the ACCC if you have to, and also get re-imbursed for the damage.

Then go to some place with a reputation and get Nappa leather (the stuff they put in AMGs).

This is where I will eventually get mine done, but I am in Sydney: http://ccuautotrim.com.au/current-jobs.php
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Last edited by ItsHectic; 04-27-2014 at 02:02 AM..
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      04-27-2014, 02:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
I checked the rep for the company and they have 1 bad google review.
I dont know why you asked the dealership where they outsource work to, they are obviously gonna go to the cheapest bidder, and dealerships suck at doing work already.

I also dont know why you went with a crappy leather.

Get a refund through Australian consumer law, speak to the ACCC if you have to, and also get re-imbursed for the damage.

Then go to some place with a reputation and get Nappa leather (the stuff they put in AMGs) triple stitched.

This is where I will eventually get mine done, but I am in Sydney: http://ccuautotrim.com.au/

Would be odd if he had just one seat in Nappa though….
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      04-27-2014, 02:10 AM   #9
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I would still prefer that over 2 in boston.
Lots of people have 1 recaro seat and 1 stock seat.
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      04-27-2014, 03:35 AM   #10
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If they didn't do the work for Ford, take your ford details out of it and use a personal email account.
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      04-27-2014, 04:35 AM   #11
ItsHectic
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I gotta ask now because everytime someone posts and I look at this thread I ask myself, bad worksmanship aside, why does the leather on the bottom left in this pic look like the cow had eczema?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...oriking/5c.jpg
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      04-27-2014, 06:14 AM   #12
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It's sad to see such shoddy workmanship. The leather depicted in your 2nd pic along that thigh bolster was identical to that in my 1M when I picked it up brand new. I was given the "it's a natural material" bs and BMW wouldn't have a bar of it
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      04-27-2014, 07:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ryan_ View Post
If they didn't do the work for Ford, take your ford details out of it and use a personal email account.
Just sent it a moment ago from my work one. Ah well, doubt it will make much difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
I checked the rep for the company and they have 1 bad google review.
I dont know why you asked the dealership where they outsource work to, they are obviously gonna go to the cheapest bidder, and dealerships suck at doing work already.

I also dont know why you went with a crappy leather.

Get a refund through Australian consumer law, speak to the ACCC if you have to, and also get re-imbursed for the damage.

Then go to some place with a reputation and get Nappa leather (the stuff they put in AMGs).

This is where I will eventually get mine done, but I am in Sydney: http://ccuautotrim.com.au/current-jobs.php
That's the thing, they weren't the cheapest, I could have got it done somewhere else for about 30% less money. So I put all the pieces together, and assumed more expensive + recommendation by the dealer = a decent job. Because the dealer has to honour warranty right? So I would have thought they would take it to the cheapest place that does a decent job so they don't have returns 4 out of 5 times And I don't think it would take a pedantic person (enthusiast) to notice this.

Yeah, I wanted to keep with the standard look, so that's why I went for it.


ANYWAY. Update as of this morning, I called up and asked to speak to the manager, because I had some issues which I wanted to send through via email. He asked me what it was for. He realised which job I was referring to, and before I could tell him about any of the issues, he basically told me that it was a difficult job, and all the issues were caused by the fact I gave him the seat by itself, without the car. And because of this, they had no electrics to manipulate the seat, and this made it very difficult, and that's what caused all the issues.

He was not very polite, I told him I will send him and email outlining all my issues, and that I would like to discuss them further, so I would like him to respond, he said he would only respond if he had something new to say.

So I just sent the email about half an hour ago, we shall see how this goes, but it's starting to looks like it's going to be a struggle, and I may have to explore the ACCC etc. options which you mention. *sigh*

Quote:
I gotta ask now because everytime someone posts and I look at this thread I ask myself, bad worksmanship aside, why does the leather on the bottom left in this pic look like the cow had eczema?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...oriking/5c.jpg
I assume you mean at the foot of the side bolster? Remember this is a photo of the passenger's seat, which didn't have the leather changed, and will be showing signs of wear.

EDIT:
Also, I included this in the email: the seat-back release lever seems to have been dislocated, probably due to the screwdriver being used to pry the trim off:

See attached: (a) is driver's (b) is passenger's for comparison.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Kkuba; 04-27-2014 at 08:20 PM..
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      04-27-2014, 08:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
This is where I will eventually get mine done, but I am in Sydney: http://ccuautotrim.com.au/current-jobs.php
Have seen their work first hand in one of the Ferraris we did.
Gets the from me.
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      04-28-2014, 02:28 AM   #15
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Just had another chat with him and it went like this

Him: So what would you like to do?
Me: If I was to bring in the car with the seat, I would like to have it fixed and done properly.
: And at who's cost?
: Yours
: And what if I was to say I think it should be done at your cost
: ........
: Then we would have to reach a compromise, right?
: ... yes, i suppose.


Do you guys think that it should be done at his cost?

Because I did call up in the days prior to dropping the seat off, asking if they can do it, and was told that, 'yep sure, no problems'. They did not mention that it would be more ideal if I gave them the car as well....

What are your thoughts?

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys. Much appreciated.
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      04-28-2014, 02:29 AM   #16
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You think if they were having issues with not being able to move the seat they would call you and ask for a way in doing so instead of just doing a crap job.
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      04-28-2014, 02:59 AM   #17
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I was expecting your phonecall to end with him saying he will fix it for free, I was surprised to see he is denying liability.

A lot of places do this because most people will just accept crappy work and move on, for example crystal carwash, people dont care about an $80 wash or a $300 detail that is completely rubish, I took my car back, I was gonna go to the manager but its not worth $300 for me, but I did make them redo it, this was my shit daily BTW I would not take my BMW there, it might sound like a dick thing but I warned them beforehand and made it very clear what I wanted and if it was possible.

In your case it would be worth it for me to follow up with the ACCC and even small claims court and I would because I love my car.

As for him wanting to do it at your cost, this is just him being a dickhead, the website says all work is guaranteed (Well it is under Australian law anyway without needing to mention this). It also says shit like best work, we are great etc etc and shows picture of immaculate work. So he did not meet reasonable expectations at all, therefore no way should it be at your cost.

I would of pissed him off with my blunt insistence if it were me, and I would not want a disgruntled worker working on my car so I would just go straight to the ACCC for reimbursement and take it elsewhere.
Dont make threats and dont bother reasoning with him, if he cant even accept fault you wont talk him in to it.

He should not of accepted the job if he couldnt do it up to his companies advertised quality, or he should of at least warned you, this breaks Australian consumer law, we have very good consumer protection in this country, use it.
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Last edited by ItsHectic; 04-28-2014 at 03:30 AM..
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      04-28-2014, 03:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiuM View Post
You think if they were having issues with not being able to move the seat they would call you and ask for a way in doing so instead of just doing a crap job.
Agree.

Be firm with him, there should be no compromise and fee paid on your behalf for their inability to complete the job that they where contracted to perform...
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      04-28-2014, 05:36 AM   #19
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I would put up a review on Google (and any other site you can find) with your complaint - just copy paste the OP. I had an issue with a cleaning company, put up a complaint, had a call from them the same day and to remove the review they refunded me the money AND gave me another free clean voucher.
as an adjunct to your fair trading/ombudsman complaint off course...
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      04-28-2014, 07:05 PM   #20
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Will be chatting again with him this morning, and I will let you know of the outcome.

A question to you guys though, what do you think would be a reasonable resolution to the broken/damaged plastic trim pieces?

I guess it would be a bit too much to demand he replace all the damaged plastic bits, instead should I expect that he at least repairs them to the same function and appearance as they were before?

Thanks again everyone for all the feedback.
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      04-28-2014, 07:11 PM   #21
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It might be cheaper to replace them, I am replacing a seat trim peice in my car thats $120, I cant see having it "re-textured" being cheaper than that or even not be noticeable.

When you make your claim with the ACCC or fair trading you arnt just claiming the amount you payed, you should be claiming the cost to replace all the damaged trim pieces.

If it was a little scuff I could let it slide but taking everything in to consideration it was completely negligent and totally disrespectful.


Also dont let him discourage you from going to the ACCC or fair trading cause thats where I see your conversation going, he will probably start lying and making up bullshit like hes gonna sue you for ruining his reputation, or that you wont have anywhere else to take it cause he is friends with the other places, or that it will cost you money if your claim fails rah rah rah. He seems like that kind of guy.


On the other hand, I just realised there is a possible alternate solution to this situation.

The whole thing MIGHT be covered by your car insurance, if thats the case they are obliged to pay you out as a not at fault claim, they can then sue him and it doesnt matter what the outcome is for you and you dont have to do anything, just like if someone without insurance rear ends your car.

It can either be covered under accidental damage caused by a driver (hard because he did not drive your car), or covered under vandalism.
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Last edited by ItsHectic; 04-28-2014 at 07:26 PM..
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      04-28-2014, 07:39 PM   #22
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BMW ruined my trim removing seats and the service manager had it fixed no problems after a scathing letter form me.

It works to be a pain in the backside, so let them know you're not gonna let it go easy and play hardball. Trust me eventually they'll do anything just to be rid of you!
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