[OneDirty]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Is there a distinction from what BMW is offering vs what it would have been if it were a Mini? Doesn't BMW still own some of the other Rover brands? Seems like leaving BMW as rwd based cars and Mini or Mini and Riley / Austin Healey / Triumph as fwd based cars would have left a clearer image.

That would have been cool I could very much live with Triumph minivans, minisedans and small convertibles...the Mini brand could stay with small-footprint stuff and not have gross compact-SUV-coupe idiocy in the lineup and BMWs could stay rear-wheel-drive, and true to their own BS that they've been advertising for a thousand years Ultimate driving machine! If everything sub-3 series is going to be FWD, there's nothing stopping me looking at Ford or GM products and saving a hill of cash...to spend on old BMWs

[imserious]

Originally Posted by rave426

The new M3/M4, and the upcoming M2 the big plays right now. If BMW gets those right, they still have their heads on right.

Agreed. M3/4 and potential M2 are big deals to the BMW brand.

[gabe925]

What has this world come to!!!!!!!

[cidair]

😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

Total FAIL!

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Doesn't BMW still own some of the other Rover brands?

No. All Rover brands were sold off, except for MINI. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but TATA Motors now owns Rover.

[jippii ensio]

Small cars should be FWD. FWD cars are lighter and have more space than RWDs with the same external dimensions. BMW was the last one to understand it. They got it finally.

[conradb]

Came in here to see all the bratty whining and tantrum-esque posts. Was not disappointed.

[BeemerX1]

Old rumors, old news, to bad,..

Z2? yes probably FWD
For a 1 serie based car BMW already told the world it will be FWD to reduce costs and because 9 at 10 possible customers don't even know if they're car is FWD/RWD or AWD, they just hear the rumors that RWD is dangeraus (even when they drive one for years).

Other car makes like Mercedes doing this as well. Look at the A, CLA, GLA and soon the mini SLK (SLA?) but you could have them in 4 wheel drive (when the car needs it, it isn't like fixed 4 wheel drive)

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

No. All Rover brands were sold off, except for MINI. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but TATA Motors now owns Rover.

Thanks, interesting Wiki on Austin Healey:
The name Austin is now owned by Nanjing who bought the assets of MG Rover Group (British Leyland's successor company) out of bankruptcy in 2005. After Donald Healey sold his original business, Donald Healey Motor Company, the Healey brand was registered to a new firm, Healey Automobile Consultants, which the Healey family sold to HFI Automotive in 2005.
In June 2007, Nanjing and Healey Automobile Consultants / HFI Automotive signed a collaborative agreement that aims to recreate the Austin Healey and Healey marquees alongside NAC's MG. No timeline has been given as to when the Healey and Austin-Healey brands will return, although MG will be back on the market in China and the UK by the year's end.

And something perhaps a little more stale on Triumph:
The trademark is owned currently by BMW, which acquired Triumph when it bought the Rover Group in 1994. When it sold Rover, it kept the Triumph marque. The Phoenix Consortium, which bought Rover, tried to buy the Triumph brand, but BMW refused, saying that if Phoenix insisted, it would break the deal. The Standard marque was transferred to British Motor Heritage Limited. The Standard marque is still retained by British Motor Heritage who also have the licence to use the Triumph marque in relation to the sale of spares and service of the existing 'park' of Triumph cars.
The Triumph name has been retained by BMW along with Riley, and Mini. In late 2007, the magazine Auto Express, after continued rumours that Triumph be revived with BMW ownership, featured a story showing an image of what a new version of the TR4 might look like. BMW has not commented officially on this.

[bclemans]

"Speaking to Wards Auto, Dr. Herbert Diess [BMW board member] said the company sees little need for a sedan smaller than the 3-Series in the United States."

Hopefully, this means there will be a 1-series sedan to do battle with the Mercedes CLA/AMG and the Audi A3/S3 sedans.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by bclemans

Hopefully, this means there will be a 1-series sedan to do battle with the Mercedes CLA/AMG and the Audi A3/S3 sedans.

Not any time soon, apparently the rwd 2GC which was on deck has been pushed back or scrapped and there doesn't appear to be a plan for another rwd based F2x sedan. So we're likely left waiting for a G series, fwd car, which appears to be at least three or four years away. Sure seems like a lot of lost sales to MB and Audi.

[Saphirschwarz]

There are going to be BMW's everywhere.

BMW is the new VW.

[Cuz5150]

"BMW's 3-cylinder turbocharged engine is expected to power most of the Active Tourer models, with a more powerful 4-cylinder 235i Active Tourer model also speculated."


Its ok, if these FWD cars make it to the US, I'm not going to buy one so....
I got news for BMW NA, they better not bring these over with 3cyl engines. They are not going to sell well at all.
Its 4cyl or stay in Europe/rest of the world. The US, does not like 3cyl or 5cyl.

[motorsport_cat]

So a total of 45 models? WTF

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

So we are finally making the car for the BMW (or future) BMW driver who have to compromise because an increase to the family unit or a requirement in flexibility has meant them moving to domestic or import when they would like these features in a BMW? That sucks...

Don't take this crowd personally. I agree with you (and the silent majority does as well)... there is most certainly a constituency for the 2-Active Tourer... they're just not represented here.

Please- do us all (including the close-minded 'purists') favor; continue to grow the brand (and the R&D budget), sell more cars to keep BMW independent and keep the hits coming (the M2 will compliment my F15 X5 well).

And thanks for all the info along the way.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by Cuz5150

"BMW's 3-cylinder turbocharged engine is expected to power most of the Active Tourer models, with a more powerful 4-cylinder 235i Active Tourer model also speculated."


Its ok, if these FWD cars make it to the US, I'm not going to buy one so....
I got news for BMW NA, they better not bring these over with 3cyl engines. They are not going to sell well at all.
Its 4cyl or stay in Europe/rest of the world. The US, does not like 3cyl or 5cyl.

You've got news... please, the VAG 5cyl was one of the best, most reliable engines that they ever introduced into this marketplace... but for CAFE, it'd still be here... Also, lets not forget the T5s that Audi (Quattro, TTRS, etc.) and Volvo have been flogging for decades.

The irony is that this is the type of thinking that would have kept a compact sport sedan out of this market in the 60s, "the BMW 2002? 4-doors and a 4cyl engine?... it'll never work in the US... people like their sports cars to be huge 2-door coupes with push-rod V8s".

We're enthusiasts- lets remember to see the forest through the trees. This brand still makes some of the best, most accessible sports (and sporting) cars in the world. Sure, other brands are catching up- but only because BMW forced them to.

If they whiff on the M-cars, or even the bread and butter 2, 3 and 4-series base cars- give them hell. But what they do around the edges to fund R&D and keep from being a feather in Geely's cap... should be just fine with us.

[X6mac]

Originally Posted by mhanism

It is, what it is folks...

BMW is at heart, a profit driven, growth seeking enterprise. I see the expansion as evolving and the staying competitive in an increasingly crowded market.

While the fwd BMW variants may be troublesome to loyal enthusiasts, it's BMWs way of broadening up their customer base, and opening doors for their traditionally, larger, RWD, more powerful models.

As long as they continue to evolve their engine technologies, ///M, and overall driving dynamics, I'm okay with the expansion.

Someone who sees the bigger picture

[BMWnStuff]

It seems BMW intends to put a BMW-badged vehicle into nearly every car segment ever. From FWD minivan looking POS to angelesque marble-chiseled M4's. It looks like American capitalism has made it overseas.....

[Jai 302]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW i8 doesnt qualify? maybe you should read some reviews on it before you open mouth....

the last M3 had an M3 GTS.. I guess that doesnt count either.

And just because the models you are asking for (that you likely won't be buying) right now aren't immediately available.. .... doesnt mean that there are not other models coming. What's to say the M division won't play with the i8 and bring out an M version? Keep in mind that the BMW philosophy for M is to improve on an underlying model..


Personally.. I could care less if BMW makes a halo car that I will never be able to afford. I want them to make sport sedans and sports cars that I *can* afford. Like the one I already own....

That I likely won't be buying? Speak for yourself. I'm in the market for a sports car around the i8's price range by the end of the year - when the i8 will be available here in Dubai. Having bought 2 BMW's in the past 2 years (Z4 and 6 series), the next step in the BMW ladder of sports/sporty cars is the i8 or an M6. The problem is I have trouble justifying spending that money on a car with fancy doors and an anaemic 3 cylinder engine or a tarted up 650i. I don't understand what the issue is with some people - they seem to have a problem with the fact that fans of BMW are disappointed with the brand's new direction of flooding the streets with low cost - family friendly models of every shape and size. They've completely forgotten about their history of making great cars like the 850i, Z8, M1, E60/E63 M5/6, etc. I'm willing to accept this dilution of the brand if only they strengthen it from the other end with higher end cars. But hey, I'm just one customer, so who cares right?

I like my 6er, but I wish it was a bit lighter and had the hydraulic steering of the Z4. Regardless I'll keep it for a while as it as a wonderful daily driver but it's also safe to say that it might be my last BMW if the company doesn't get its act together. Thank God for Porsche and Mercedes - they care about their fans.

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Fair opinion. But Mercedes and Audi can only build those because they simply have backing from a parent company. Now maybe I'm thinking about this from an average consumer and because I know I'll never be able to afford cars like a R8 or a SLS and perhaps BMW is thinking the same way. BMW has already stated that they won't make a halo super car because the percentage of people out there that would buy such a car is minuscule.

Now if you're in that tax bracket that could afford the super and hyper cars, I apologize, but I'd rather see BMW invest into things that will eventually fall into cars that the average consumer could afford instead of cars that only one percent can afford. We're already seeing that with CFRP. As for the i sub brand, sure it may only look like a textbook exercise today, but like it or not, this is the future of automobiles and I'm glad that BMW is investing into it now. If you're in the position to be able to get such a car out as a volume seller, why wouldn't you? I'm not against super and hyper cars, but as an average consumer, what's there to gain other than to engage in fanboy wars arguing who has the best super car that most of can't even afford? There are specific marques out there that can satisfy your 800HP+ needs.

Right now, I think BMW is in a type of transition stage. We know CFRP is going to take off and maybe the technology used in the i-brand will too. BMW is in the position to provide those to other companies vs. having to source them from someone or somewhere else. I will take the former. From there, who knows what happens in the future but BMW has set up the groundwork for themselves.

I respect your opinion but all I was trying to convey was that I'm disappointed with the continuous dilution of a brand that once stood for something. It's frustrating as a fan of the brand to know that nobody cares about BMW's as much as they used to because it doesn't respect itself and it's (former) core values.

Originally Posted by imserious

Exactly. Diluting the brand to increase profits is understandable, but it increases the need to reinforce the brand with higher end halo or more hard core products.

Mercedes and Audi are doing a fine job at this. Their halo cars represent the pinnacle of their brands. IMO, AMG = luxury and power, R8 = luxury and design. BMW i8 = technology and driving dynamics? that was confusing. And the M cars continue to evolve into do it all cars, not pure driver cars. Even Porsche is forgivable because it continues to churn out best in class sports cars.

The M235i club car is a step in the right direction, but not a real car for the people. BMW seems more excited about the i3 and enthusiasts seem more excited about the prospect of an M2 (their last hope). Perhaps this indicates where BMW thinks they need to go with their brand...

Thank you. I'm glad someone understands what I'm saying. The M2 is definitely a step in the right direction. Even BMW's entry level models should scream sporty and fast like the M135i, 228i and M235i. Not the new 2 series Craptive Tourer or i8. I personally think the i8 will be the undisputed ugliest car on the road.

[Taskmaster]

The naming structure pisses me off more than anything else. It's almost as bad as Lincoln and Acura's names.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Jai 302

That I likely won't be buying? Speak for yourself. I'm in the market for a sports car around the i8's price range by the end of the year - when the i8 will be available here in Dubai. Having bought 2 BMW's in the past 2 years (Z4 and 6 series), the next step in the BMW ladder of sports/sporty cars is the i8 or an M6. The problem is I have trouble justifying spending that money on a car with fancy doors and an anaemic 3 cylinder engine or a tarted up 650i. I don't understand what the issue is with some people - they seem to have a problem with the fact that fans of BMW are disappointed with the brand's new direction of flooding the streets with low cost - family friendly models of every shape and size. They've completely forgotten about their history of making great cars like the 850i, Z8, M1, E60/E63 M5/6, etc. I'm willing to accept this dilution of the brand if only they strengthen it from the other end with higher end cars. But hey, I'm just one customer, so who cares right?

I like my 6er, but I wish it was a bit lighter and had the hydraulic steering of the Z4. Regardless I'll keep it for a while as it as a wonderful daily driver but it's also safe to say that it might be my last BMW if the company doesn't get its act together. Thank God for Porsche and Mercedes - they care about their fans.I respect your opinion but all I was trying to convey was that I'm disappointed with the continuous dilution of a brand that once stood for something. It's frustrating as a fan of the brand to know that nobody cares about BMW's as much as they used to because it doesn't respect itself and it's (former) core values.Thank you. I'm glad someone understands what I'm saying. The M2 is definitely a step in the right direction. Even BMW's entry level models should scream sporty and fast like the M135i, 228i and M235i. Not the new 2 series Craptive Tourer or i8. I personally think the i8 will be the undisputed ugliest car on the road.

I didn't even read all of this yet and I completely agree.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Jai 302

I respect your opinion but all I was trying to convey was that I'm disappointed with the continuous dilution of a brand that once stood for something. It's frustrating as a fan of the brand to know that nobody cares about BMW's as much as they used to because it doesn't respect itself and it's (former) core values.

I don't think anyone can accuse BMW of not caring about themselves/business. We all want BMW to do this and that but the reality is even if they wanted to so what we all want, they're not on the position to do so. How do you know that BMW isn't thinking they want to make model xyz? Everyone keeps saying Audi and Mercedes has all these low entry models but they also have the R8's and the SLS's, where do you think they got the money to release those cars? We know Audi collaborates with Lamborghini so we'll say half the cost is reduced right there. Mercedes is almost like BMW. They have been selling these low end models for a white now with the addition of having Daimler back them if need be. BMW is just getting to that now - making low end cars to help subsidize other cars.

As for Lexus and the LFA, it's no secret that they don't make any money from it but they have Toyota. Do you think if Lexus was it's own brand we would even see a car like the LFA? Nobody is going to take a risk like that unless your goal is to focus and manufacture a specific type of car.

Everybody wants BMW to take chances, I do to, but I understand that they're in no position to do unless you're willing to cripple your business if it doesn't work out.I don't think anyone can judge until after this transitional period is over. Only after BMW gets CFRP out to all models and all these new models are release can we really judge whether or not BMW doesn't care or not.