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09-15-2014, 10:49 PM | #1 |
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Didnt know M3 stock brakes were top performers!!!
Based on this publication from 2008, the stopping distance from 100km to 0 is very close to brembo powered ferraris.
For some reason I cant put the picture in the post so see the link. http://www.brembo.com/en/car/origina...s/default.aspx just hit X on right left corner to see the data when prompts for password
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BMW M3 E92 - Silverstone II BPM Sport Stage II Tune + Test Pipes, GTS DCT Tune Last edited by besiktas; 09-15-2014 at 10:57 PM.. |
09-15-2014, 11:30 PM | #2 |
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That doesn't surprise me. The stock M3 brakes are very good for the street with great bite and short stopping distance. The problem is that they do not stand up to repeated hard threshold braking very well and begin to fade on the track.
The M3 and Brembo-equipped Ferraris might start off roughly the same, but the M3's stopping distances would start to grow considerably with lap after lap whereas the Ferrari's would stay pretty much the same. |
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09-16-2014, 01:18 AM | #4 | |
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09-16-2014, 01:38 AM | #5 |
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Big Brakes really shine during prolonged hard driving. They have more surface area and they're also able to cool down faster, especially if you have proper ducting.
The first few stops won't matter a whole lot, but if you're driving it right, you will notice some fade. |
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09-16-2014, 04:19 AM | #6 |
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Its the tyre grip (and how aggressive the ABS is set) that determines the stopping distance in single stop tests...you could put F1 brakes on an M3 and its not going to stop any quicker. "Bigger" brakes buy you greater thermal capacity and/or the ability to shed heat quicker. Whenever you see people say that they fitted Brembos and felt the improvement the first time they used them they are talking nonsense.
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09-16-2014, 08:38 AM | #7 |
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09-16-2014, 09:13 AM | #8 |
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SenorFunkyPants is correct. If your brakes are strong enough to lock up the tires/set off ABS, how sticky your tires determine how short you stop, not so much which calipers are on your car.
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09-16-2014, 09:32 AM | #9 | |
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However since all the car weights are different and the brakes are all different sizing isn't the result basically just a number?
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09-16-2014, 09:48 AM | #10 | |
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The four things that matter for good single stop braking distances (from relatively low speeds like 60mph): - Good tires - Well set up alignment/suspension geometry - Correct brake bias and ABS setup that isn't too aggressive - Car's weight distribution Size of the rotors, number of pistons in the caliper, etc.. have very little bearing since just about any brake system on a sports/sporty car can overcome tire grip on at least one axle at lower speeds. At higher speeds the amount of torque that the brake system can generate (which is related to size of rotors, caliper design, number of pistons, etc..) does become relevant since you won't be locking up tires at 150mph from braking even with ABS disabled. I have no idea where that delineation starts happening though. But I can tell you that my 18 year old 993 out brakes my 3 year old M3 in panic situations mostly because of weight distribution and because the ABS system kicks in pretty late. I can lock them up pretty easily at 60mph for a half second or so before ABS pulses in that car.
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09-16-2014, 11:12 AM | #11 | |
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And if this is true then why is the GTS at the top of the pack? Which controlled variables are different with the GTS and the standard M3 for example? I know the wheel dimensions are exactly the same on the GTS as the ZCP package. Just trying to learn this car, thanks for the information! Last edited by Sinful; 09-16-2014 at 11:18 AM.. |
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09-16-2014, 12:14 PM | #12 |
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How the manufacturer sets up the ABS can make a difference...maximum deceleration is achieved with the tyres "slipping" at between 10-30%..ie the tyres are turning 10-30% slower than they would if no brakes were applied. Maximum steering control is when the tyres are not slipping at all. So you have to choose your compromise.
Porsche set their ABS quite aggressively on some models - you can hear their tyres chirping at full ABS braking. |
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09-16-2014, 12:32 PM | #13 | ||
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But assuming that is a repeatable difference, my hunch would be: - Is the GTS lighter? - Suspension geometry differences (e.g., you want very flat, very straight front tires under breaking - toe and camber are both bad for braking distances) - Brake bias is bound to be different even if they wanted both to be pretty close - Perhaps ABS differences - maybe BMW programed a slightly higher threshold
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09-16-2014, 01:57 PM | #14 | |
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09-17-2014, 10:19 AM | #16 |
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I was. Thanks.
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09-17-2014, 02:32 PM | #17 | |
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09-17-2014, 02:49 PM | #18 | |
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BTW....My battery charger is European too, but you knew that already !
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09-17-2014, 04:09 PM | #19 | |
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09-17-2014, 09:24 PM | #20 | |
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Last edited by Sinful; 09-17-2014 at 09:34 PM.. |
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09-18-2014, 03:25 AM | #21 |
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The weight change isn't going to make a difference. If an M3 stops from 60mph to zero mph in 34m, with all else being equal if you removed 100lbs of weight, the M3 would still take 34m to stop.
Fitting Brembos will not change the braking distance (single stop). A small change in the tyre size will not change the contact patch by any significant amount. A small change in front suspension settings will not affect the braking distance - in fact a more track oriented set up would probably make it worse. A "stickier" tyre compound would shorten the braking distance. An increase in load on the tyre (reduced lift/increased downforce) will shorten the braking distance. Optimising the ABS for shortest braking distance will unsurprisingly shorten the braking distance. Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 09-18-2014 at 06:24 AM.. |
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09-18-2014, 02:57 PM | #22 | |
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I have heard that before but I just can't buy it. Weight seems to me to be the main variable. Taken to the extreme if I were to load all my gold bars equally around my car thereby doubling the cars weight I can only imagine the stopping distance doubling if not more. I realize the tires would have increased traction or grip but momentum would still kill the stopping distance. If increased weight helped traction more than increased weight hurt acceleration then dragsters have a much different look. |
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