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      02-12-2008, 01:42 PM   #45
e90im
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... Yes JOHN FREAKING KERRY....

What's your point here?
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      02-12-2008, 06:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
John Kerry vs. G W Bush...
Hmmm...only an idiot (not that I call you one, but you figure out) would chose the second one...
But you did, and he ruined this country more than anyone ever could...

And now, you want a preacher that wants to force bible in my life and in my children's education???

Worse than Communism...if you even know what that is...
I voted for him and so did 50%+ of the country.. Care to share what Bush did sooo wrong and how he ruined our country? Or have you been only watching the Clinton News Network (CNN if you didnt catch it). It seems most people who hate bush and demonize him can only name call and not point to issues.. Ill help you out I am disappointed with his boarder control and not reducing the size of the government.. (read below again its not his fault one branch cant make a decision it takes 2 to pass a bill)

After all the president really doesnt matter they are more of a figure than an actual use. After all in our political system we have 3 branches that check and balance each other so 1 branch cant do anything without anothers approval. Go ahead and bring up the war bush wanted it and congress approved it, yet during the election year all the liberals flip flop and are suddenly against it since it might not be going as fast or as well as they expected but that doesnt mean we should quit. After all the real war is against islamic extremist and contrary to what Clinton Obaman and Kerry think they wont sit around and chat with us, they have deep religious beliefes and want what we stand for gone the old "join our side or die".

Bring up the economy, we have the lowest unemployment run ever period, our GDP growth for the past 7 years has been above average also, so of course when it slows down a tad all the democrats make it a horrid catastrophe. And all clinton did to make a surplus was to reshuffle money around from social security to pay off debt, and having debt if you have taken any finance or accounting classes is not always a bad thing.


What wrong with a little religion and who said he was going to force it on them? After all the bible and the 10 commandments are laws we all ready live by and it only uses stories to teach how we should treat each other and behave. So if adding morels to your kids about not stealing, cheating, killing is bad then you have issues but your not alone a lot of kids are growing up with moral and ethical issues. Hillary and Obama believe in taxing the hardworking americans and redistributing the wealth to folks who never finished high school, Hillary and Obama are just pure socialists.


We need to take more responsibility for our actions and what we do, I see it all the time when any issue is brought up the first thing most women and democrats say is "well shouldn't the government protect us". Ill apply this to a current issue of housing, a lot of folks went out and bought houses they could not afford (typical american problem) they used ARM's to lower the monthly payments (the truth in lending act requires disclose to folks about how their financing method works and they must understand this, yes a few cases people were tricked but they now have legal recourse but for the most part thats not the case they were greedy and wanter a bigger house), the interest rates adjusted 5 years later and now they are crying for a government bail out, well they should of known now the government comes along and helps them out via having their people next door pay more tax so someone can live in a home they could not afford. Another issue is investor that are getting bailed out, the knew full and well the risk and they lost so why should we bail them out...
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      02-12-2008, 06:54 PM   #47
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... Yes JOHN FREAKING KERRY....

What's your point here?
My point is McCain can not be trusted by republicans since he considered running against his own party.
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      02-12-2008, 08:40 PM   #48
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I voted for him and so did 50%+ of the country.. Care to share what Bush did sooo wrong and how he ruined our country? Or have you been only watching the Clinton News Network (CNN if you didnt catch it). It seems most people who hate bush and demonize him can only name call and not point to issues.. Ill help you out I am disappointed with his boarder control and not reducing the size of the government.. (read below again its not his fault one branch cant make a decision it takes 2 to pass a bill)

After all the president really doesnt matter they are more of a figure than an actual use. After all in our political system we have 3 branches that check and balance each other so 1 branch cant do anything without anothers approval. Go ahead and bring up the war bush wanted it and congress approved it, yet during the election year all the liberals flip flop and are suddenly against it since it might not be going as fast or as well as they expected but that doesnt mean we should quit. After all the real war is against islamic extremist and contrary to what Clinton Obaman and Kerry think they wont sit around and chat with us, they have deep religious beliefes and want what we stand for gone the old "join our side or die".

Bring up the economy, we have the lowest unemployment run ever period, our GDP growth for the past 7 years has been above average also, so of course when it slows down a tad all the democrats make it a horrid catastrophe. And all clinton did to make a surplus was to reshuffle money around from social security to pay off debt, and having debt if you have taken any finance or accounting classes is not always a bad thing.


What wrong with a little religion and who said he was going to force it on them? After all the bible and the 10 commandments are laws we all ready live by and it only uses stories to teach how we should treat each other and behave. So if adding morels to your kids about not stealing, cheating, killing is bad then you have issues but your not alone a lot of kids are growing up with moral and ethical issues. Hillary and Obama believe in taxing the hardworking americans and redistributing the wealth to folks who never finished high school, Hillary and Obama are just pure socialists.


We need to take more responsibility for our actions and what we do, I see it all the time when any issue is brought up the first thing most women and democrats say is "well shouldn't the government protect us". Ill apply this to a current issue of housing, a lot of folks went out and bought houses they could not afford (typical american problem) they used ARM's to lower the monthly payments (the truth in lending act requires disclose to folks about how their financing method works and they must understand this, yes a few cases people were tricked but they now have legal recourse but for the most part thats not the case they were greedy and wanter a bigger house), the interest rates adjusted 5 years later and now they are crying for a government bail out, well they should of known now the government comes along and helps them out via having their people next door pay more tax so someone can live in a home they could not afford. Another issue is investor that are getting bailed out, the knew full and well the risk and they lost so why should we bail them out...
Are you out of your freikin mind, or that AZ sun fried your brain???
What did Bush do wrong to this country???

Let me ask you first -- what did he do right???

Now, the easy part -- wrong things, just a few:
- education
- deficit
- housing situation
- economy and yes, unemployment rate. Being employed statistically, does not mean anything!!! Tons of people that lost their jobs in 2001-03 got only temp jobs of lower class than they held before. Now, the reality is coming up and you will see what will happen in the next 2 years...
- future of this country -- world respect
- Iraq
- Afghanistan
***Last two are a total miss or mess if you want. Afghanistan HAD a chance, but he gave it away -- it is worse today than in 2001. As for Iraq, no need to talk about that
- Dollar
- Gas prices
- True Inflation -- remember, the inflation of 5% that the govt gives you excludes the food and energy -- the only two things that concern middle class!
- healthcare

And I could go on and on...

As for economy, I do not blame him as it is cyclical in nature -- HOWEVER, I blame him for bankrupting this country totally that will have a HUGE effect on the future economy and downturn recovery. I blame him for not foreseeing what will happen, for example with the housing markets...
I blame him for not improving education a bit in 8 years!
I blame him for having the most expensive healthcare costs in last 17 years (that I have been in this country).
I blame him for dividing this country completely where it really does not matter what the candidate values are but what party he/she belongs...

You want me to continue???
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      02-12-2008, 08:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by AndrewAZ View Post
I
Bring up the economy, we have the lowest unemployment run ever period, our GDP growth for the past 7 years has been above average also, so of course when it slows down a tad all the democrats make it a horrid catastrophe. And all clinton did to make a surplus was to reshuffle money around from social security to pay off debt, and having debt if you have taken any finance or accounting classes is not always a bad thing.


What wrong with a little religion and who said he was going to force it on them? After all the bible and the 10 commandments are laws we all ready live by and it only uses stories to teach how we should treat each other and behave. So if adding morels to your kids about not stealing, cheating, killing is bad then you have issues but your not alone a lot of kids are growing up with moral and ethical issues. Hillary and Obama believe in taxing the hardworking americans and redistributing the wealth to folks who never finished high school, Hillary and Obama are just pure socialists.


We need to take more responsibility for our actions and what we do, I see it all the time when any issue is brought up the first thing most women and democrats say is "well shouldn't the government protect us". Ill apply this to a current issue of housing, a lot of folks went out and bought houses they could not afford (typical american problem) they used ARM's to lower the monthly payments (the truth in lending act requires disclose to folks about how their financing method works and they must understand this, yes a few cases people were tricked but they now have legal recourse but for the most part thats not the case they were greedy and wanter a bigger house), the interest rates adjusted 5 years later and now they are crying for a government bail out, well they should of known now the government comes along and helps them out via having their people next door pay more tax so someone can live in a home they could not afford. Another issue is investor that are getting bailed out, the knew full and well the risk and they lost so why should we bail them out...
First of all, the economy analysis above from you is a typical, selfish republican approach that I very much dislike. You do not care what will happen to your children or grand children as long as your ass is happy and your account is full. You do not look further than a few months ahead and do not realize that this empire will not last forever and when the time comes to pay back $10T (and much more) of debt to the world that is fed up with us and very pissed at us, our kids will suffer...

You do not realize that if you lose your job, you lose your helthcare and the healthcare coverage for your children. But who cares, as long as it does not resemble the "socialist" approach that O'Riley talks about. However, you and that O'Riley have no clue what the socialism is about, and what it means...

you do not realize that your low income taxes + purchase tax (>=6%) on everything you buy, plus 401k + healthcare insurance + 529 plans + Social security (waste) + medicare deductions all added up is at least equal to 35-40% taxes that for example Canadians pay but have free healthcare (peace of mind), free education, purchase taxes included in prices, pension plans offered (still) by the majority of companies... Yet, someone told you how much better our system is...
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      02-12-2008, 09:16 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Are you out of your freikin mind, or that AZ sun fried your brain???
What did Bush do wrong to this country???

Let me ask you first -- what did he do right???

Now, the easy part -- wrong things, just a few:
- education
- deficit
- housing situation
- economy and yes, unemployment rate. Being employed statistically, does not mean anything!!! Tons of people that lost their jobs in 2001-03 got only temp jobs of lower class than they held before. Now, the reality is coming up and you will see what will happen in the next 2 years...
- future of this country -- world respect
- Iraq
- Afghanistan
***Last two are a total miss or mess if you want. Afghanistan HAD a chance, but he gave it away -- it is worse today than in 2001. As for Iraq, no need to talk about that
- Dollar
- Gas prices
- True Inflation -- remember, the inflation of 5% that the govt gives you excludes the food and energy -- the only two things that concern middle class!
- healthcare

And I could go on and on...

As for economy, I do not blame him as it is cyclical in nature -- HOWEVER, I blame him for bankrupting this country totally that will have a HUGE effect on the future economy and downturn recovery. I blame him for not foreseeing what will happen, for example with the housing markets...
I blame him for not improving education a bit in 8 years!
I blame him for having the most expensive healthcare costs in last 17 years (that I have been in this country).
I blame him for dividing this country completely where it really does not matter what the candidate values are but what party he/she belongs...

You want me to continue???
Again you list things that have no facts to back them up.. You list things that Bush has no control over.. Gas prices LOL, its called the free market controls prices.

Again whats wrong with education? More and more people are going to college than ever before, our test scores are up but still need to be worked on.

Whats wrong with a deficit? its not always a bad thing to have, then again some one will bring up china which only owns 1/25 of the debt that Japan has from the USA.

Housing... Whats wrong with this? People strated playing the housing market like the stock market and house prices ran unchecked against income of folks, people over bought. What if someone making $30k a year walked into the BMW dealer and leased or finances a fully loaded 335i knowing they could only afford it for a year, do you feel sorry they lost that fully loaded 335i I dont and you and I shouldnt have to pay for him to keep his 335i.

Economy? Whats wrong with the economy, right now its having a little trouble because of the housing market.. Most notably because investment companies in the 2nd hand market bought mortgages thinking they were a stable and safe way to earn a return, well now they have a bunch of worthless mortgages from investors who tried to make a quick buck or folks who bought more home than they could afford. Might I add that Vanguard is one of the few companies who didnt invest peoples money into 2nd hand purchases of mortgages to gain a return.

Second your fallacy on lower jobs has no proof or merit, if that was the case we would of been in trouble in 04-05 but no it was the biggest booming period.

Who cares about world respect, just because what your doing is not popular doesnt mean its wrong to do. And we have plenty of countries who respect us, in the end you cant be friends with everyone. You should know this everyone learned this in high school again do whats right not what popular, and folks like Clinton and Obama are populists and do and say whats popular despite not being able to make any change.. Granted its not much better on the republican side or any side for that matter, they all say whats popular and do nothing.

Iraq... Alright ill give you this one we were probably better off leaving it alone, but again it caused a few countries to change their ways in terms of going after terrorist. But then again Sadam was paying suicide bombers but then agin Sadam didnt like Iran.. So its kind of a wash.. Personally I would of let it be since eventually Iran and Iraq would go at it again.

Afganistan.. No one said it was going to be easy, its a large country with a lot of places to hide and the culture is not giving up anyone easily. We really cant do much more, our military strength lies in missiles and in the Air when we are on the ground our advantages diminishes greatly.

Any facts to back up your claim on Afganistan??? I doubt it..

Dollar.. Again Bush cant control this, its mostly speculation right now, and having a weak dollar actually helps us out since we export more and that helps reduce the deficit. So this creates more jobs and profit for american companies. In a few years the dollars value will only increase and we will be better off since now we will have efficient american companies since we have had years of work exporting and have a competitive advantage in the world market.

Gas prices- are controlled by the market, Bush tried to bring the price down with tax cuts but that didnt work no one passed it.. Most of your price in gas ranges from 40cent a gallon is in taxes. The gas companies are private companies who charge what the market price is, they take tremendous risks in terms of investing in oil exploration and extraction and make very little profit per gallon vs some other industry, its just the gas companies deal with such great volume.

And dont kid yourself, taxing corporations more will only come back down to the consumer paying more to cover the increase in tax. Increasing tax on anyone only hurts the folks below. If you increase the tax on say Exxon the price of gas goes up to cover that so you pay more, if you increase the tax on the "wealthy" they buy less and companies have to fire off employees since sales are down.


Bush tried to privatizes healthcare but congress said nooo.. Everyone knows anything the government runs is a disaster. And by allowing folks to chose a company outside of their own state without restrictions the competition would drive prices down and quality up. Having government controlled health care is something you dont want, it costs to much to run and is very wasteful. Ask yourself why do folks from other countries come to ours for healthcare? Its efficient for the most part and the costs are reasonable.



What the hell is the middle class? No one knows its just a term that is thrown around.. Some say a family that makes $50k a year others say $50-70k... To be under the upper class term I have read several places that only requires $65k+ in cash or cash equivalent on hand.

And dont bring up folks earning the minimum wage.. Lets take a look at that.. I cant recall the number but over 80% earning min wage are teenagers supported by their parents aka having your first job, the rest breaks down to single folks with only a small percentage of married folks earning it, and the rest were part time workers.


Again a lot of folks ask for a lot of things out of a man that has no control over it yet its easy to blame on person. But again yes bush is human and makes errors but his errors can not go into action without the approval of either the house of reps or congress so its not fair to blame bush, like I said it takes 2 out of the 3 branches to get something done and its easier to blame 1 person and hard to defend yourself if your that 1 person when you have 40-50 democrats pointing and distorting things when it goes south after just agreeing with you.


Dont blame bush on healthcare costs, its all the red tape from insurance companies, and the price will only go up until we have real competition in the insurance industry which bush fought for. I think Liberman also agrees with bush (dont quote me on this) that we need to cut the red tape and allow folks to purchase insurance from any company they want so it creates a competitive market and reduces prices.. Right now living in my state I cant go buy from a company in another state that is offering it cheaper, so I have all these insurance companies in my state that basically have a high set rate.


Bush tried to improve education by allowing failing teachers to be fired, but the teachers opposed this along with the democrats who always support the teachers.. Again bush wanted to bring the free market approach to schools by allowing only the best of the best to keep their jobs, private and public universities do this so why shouldn't a grade school or high school do it also? And another thing education shouldn't just be taught at school but parents have the obligation to teacher their children also.
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      02-12-2008, 09:44 PM   #51
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My point is McCain can not be trusted by republicans since he considered running against his own party.
It seemed like you said that JK* was not good enough to be a candidate. GOP won twice with an orangutan dude!!!!

Fuck flip flops and swift boats, WAR, DEFICIT, NOT BEING ABLE TO FINISH A SENTENCE.

*JK is a poser, spoiled mofo just like G. Dub, except, he is not DUMB.
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      02-12-2008, 10:20 PM   #52
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It seemed like you said that JK* was not good enough to be a candidate. GOP won twice with an orangutan dude!!!!

Fuck flip flops and swift boats, WAR, DEFICIT, NOT BEING ABLE TO FINISH A SENTENCE.

*JK is a poser, spoiled mofo just like G. Dub, except, he is not DUMB.

Honestly my view is they are all worthless and will say whatever they want to get in.. That why I went for the other guy Huckster this time since he seemed the only republican that might change stuff around or at least try hard. Plus I like the fact that he is all about limiting the government but not a crazy like Ron Paul and he realizes that we need to prevent/cure problems that plague us and not waste all of our money trying to treat them.
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      02-13-2008, 07:36 AM   #53
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Honestly my view is they are all worthless and will say whatever they want to get in.. That why I went for the other guy Huckster this time since he seemed the only republican that might change stuff around or at least try hard. Plus I like the fact that he is all about limiting the government but not a crazy like Ron Paul and he realizes that we need to prevent/cure problems that plague us and not waste all of our money trying to treat them.
the problem with that is that we need a positive change, not negative and bible preaching crap that will do no good to anyone...
I see Obama being more honest than "do whatever to get in..."
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      02-13-2008, 09:00 AM   #54
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Again you list things that have no facts to back them up.. You list things that Bush has no control over.. Gas prices LOL, its called the free market controls prices.

Again whats wrong with education? More and more people are going to college than ever before, our test scores are up but still need to be worked on.

Whats wrong with a deficit? its not always a bad thing to have, then again some one will bring up china which only owns 1/25 of the debt that Japan has from the USA.

Housing... Whats wrong with this? People strated playing the housing market like the stock market and house prices ran unchecked against income of folks, people over bought. What if someone making $30k a year walked into the BMW dealer and leased or finances a fully loaded 335i knowing they could only afford it for a year, do you feel sorry they lost that fully loaded 335i I dont and you and I shouldnt have to pay for him to keep his 335i.

Economy? Whats wrong with the economy, right now its having a little trouble because of the housing market.. Most notably because investment companies in the 2nd hand market bought mortgages thinking they were a stable and safe way to earn a return, well now they have a bunch of worthless mortgages from investors who tried to make a quick buck or folks who bought more home than they could afford. Might I add that Vanguard is one of the few companies who didnt invest peoples money into 2nd hand purchases of mortgages to gain a return.

Second your fallacy on lower jobs has no proof or merit, if that was the case we would of been in trouble in 04-05 but no it was the biggest booming period.

Who cares about world respect, just because what your doing is not popular doesnt mean its wrong to do. And we have plenty of countries who respect us, in the end you cant be friends with everyone. You should know this everyone learned this in high school again do whats right not what popular, and folks like Clinton and Obama are populists and do and say whats popular despite not being able to make any change.. Granted its not much better on the republican side or any side for that matter, they all say whats popular and do nothing.

Iraq... Alright ill give you this one we were probably better off leaving it alone, but again it caused a few countries to change their ways in terms of going after terrorist. But then again Sadam was paying suicide bombers but then agin Sadam didnt like Iran.. So its kind of a wash.. Personally I would of let it be since eventually Iran and Iraq would go at it again.

Afganistan.. No one said it was going to be easy, its a large country with a lot of places to hide and the culture is not giving up anyone easily. We really cant do much more, our military strength lies in missiles and in the Air when we are on the ground our advantages diminishes greatly.

Any facts to back up your claim on Afganistan??? I doubt it..

Dollar.. Again Bush cant control this, its mostly speculation right now, and having a weak dollar actually helps us out since we export more and that helps reduce the deficit. So this creates more jobs and profit for american companies. In a few years the dollars value will only increase and we will be better off since now we will have efficient american companies since we have had years of work exporting and have a competitive advantage in the world market.

Gas prices- are controlled by the market, Bush tried to bring the price down with tax cuts but that didnt work no one passed it.. Most of your price in gas ranges from 40cent a gallon is in taxes. The gas companies are private companies who charge what the market price is, they take tremendous risks in terms of investing in oil exploration and extraction and make very little profit per gallon vs some other industry, its just the gas companies deal with such great volume.

And dont kid yourself, taxing corporations more will only come back down to the consumer paying more to cover the increase in tax. Increasing tax on anyone only hurts the folks below. If you increase the tax on say Exxon the price of gas goes up to cover that so you pay more, if you increase the tax on the "wealthy" they buy less and companies have to fire off employees since sales are down.


Bush tried to privatizes healthcare but congress said nooo.. Everyone knows anything the government runs is a disaster. And by allowing folks to chose a company outside of their own state without restrictions the competition would drive prices down and quality up. Having government controlled health care is something you dont want, it costs to much to run and is very wasteful. Ask yourself why do folks from other countries come to ours for healthcare? Its efficient for the most part and the costs are reasonable.



What the hell is the middle class? No one knows its just a term that is thrown around.. Some say a family that makes $50k a year others say $50-70k... To be under the upper class term I have read several places that only requires $65k+ in cash or cash equivalent on hand.

And dont bring up folks earning the minimum wage.. Lets take a look at that.. I cant recall the number but over 80% earning min wage are teenagers supported by their parents aka having your first job, the rest breaks down to single folks with only a small percentage of married folks earning it, and the rest were part time workers.


Again a lot of folks ask for a lot of things out of a man that has no control over it yet its easy to blame on person. But again yes bush is human and makes errors but his errors can not go into action without the approval of either the house of reps or congress so its not fair to blame bush, like I said it takes 2 out of the 3 branches to get something done and its easier to blame 1 person and hard to defend yourself if your that 1 person when you have 40-50 democrats pointing and distorting things when it goes south after just agreeing with you.


Dont blame bush on healthcare costs, its all the red tape from insurance companies, and the price will only go up until we have real competition in the insurance industry which bush fought for. I think Liberman also agrees with bush (dont quote me on this) that we need to cut the red tape and allow folks to purchase insurance from any company they want so it creates a competitive market and reduces prices.. Right now living in my state I cant go buy from a company in another state that is offering it cheaper, so I have all these insurance companies in my state that basically have a high set rate.


Bush tried to improve education by allowing failing teachers to be fired, but the teachers opposed this along with the democrats who always support the teachers.. Again bush wanted to bring the free market approach to schools by allowing only the best of the best to keep their jobs, private and public universities do this so why shouldn't a grade school or high school do it also? And another thing education shouldn't just be taught at school but parents have the obligation to teacher their children also.
Facts are easy to present there, don't be lazy, do a little research...
Or even better, go out and travel, the facts are going to bombard you...

Anyway, let me start from the bottom:

Bush tried to improve education by ...
I tried to win the lottery once, and it did not work, so I stopped playing...
He tried. The effective leader succeeds with the positive ideas. He knows of no diplomacy internationally, or in his own house, therefore, he created a thing that now everyone wants to opose his proposals and vice versa, and guess what -- our children and the middle class are suffering...

Again, when I mention education improvements, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Luckily for me, I received my basic education abroad, where I grew up, in the third world country as O'Riley would say... At the age of 5 I knew how to read, write, add, some english words, at the age of 8 I could tell you the capital of Iraq and point Kansas on the map. I came here, to the USA, went to college and was not required to attend Calculus 1, 2 and 3 classes at all, because, guess what, it was a part of a regular ciriculum at the High School...and so on...


Dont blame bush on healthcare costs, its all the red tape from insurance companies...

WOW, are you for real, or just pretending that the government has nothing to do with this. Why are canadians paying 1/10 for the medicine that we do -- the same manufacturer, same medicine??? Why did I purchase the anti-biotic in the country mentioned above for $0.30, and paid $85 for the same one here??? I would never completely blame it on the insurance companies for being allowed to do that.


But again yes bush is human and makes errors but his errors can not go into action without the approval of either the house of reps or congress so its not fair to blame bush, like I said it takes 2 out of the 3 branches t

Most of the "errors" he made were intentional, and because of his hard headness. A simple example is Iraq where he came out simply saying -- "You're either with me, or you're our enemy" (paraphrased). A typical dictatorship phrase I have heard many times when I lived in a Communist regime and in a dictatorship regime...
He broke the rules, he should be punished for that, not simply saying - -"well, we all make errors".
Can you imagine if for example the CEO bid a few times on a completely wrong thing, lost tons of money, had his best workers tied up in that wrong thing for an infinite period, while his company is sinking daily... How long before he would be no more???

What the hell is the middle class? No one knows its just a term that is thrown around.. Some say a family that makes $50k a year others say $50-70k... To be under the upper class term I have read several
Exactly what I'm saying. This country was known for a big middle class and all other "bad" systems basically had the rich and poor only. Our middle class is disappearing because the inflation ate the ability of it to exist. The basics are doubled in price over the last decades...
The middle class should be someone making from $xxx to $97.5k per family. Unfortunately, there is no way that those can afford a decent house, taxes, two cars, healthcare premiums and send two of their children to colleges...

Dollar.. /Gas Prices

Again, printing money killed the dollar.
Allowing Exxon and others to make huge (unheard of) profits knowing that we had no other choice allowed the prices to go where they are.
I know, you will say -- free markets... OK, I agree, but tell me why then the govt limits those gas companies to jack up the prices to $10/gallon in desaster stricken areas -- like after hurricanes, and so on??? It is a free market after all. Why are they allowed to tap into their business then???

Housing... Whats wrong with this?
Are you serious???
Anyone with any financial sense in the administration should have known what was about to happen, and prevent it. Not wait for 2M people to lose their homes, then step in...
Just to add:
- Whole Kartina fiasco is the same deal -- waited for it to escalate, then stepped in
- other things are going the same way -- education ,spending, military, healthcare, social security -- nothing is done about it until it is way too late...bad leadership...

Afghanistan
http://www.usip.org/pubs/usipeace_br...ghanistan.html

This is the first thing that popped in the search, there is thousands more...do your search.
I also hear similar things from friends returning from Afghanistan...

The bottom line is - -we're worse in EVERY aspect than 8 years ago, simple as that. Some things are not to be attributed to the current administration, however, the majority of them are the direct failure of Bush and people around him.
The biggest failures are yet to be seen and felt, but by then, Bush and other criminals will simply put the blame on the next guy...
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      02-13-2008, 11:00 AM   #55
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Honestly my view is they are all worthless and will say whatever they want to get in.. That why I went for the other guy Huckster this time since he seemed the only republican that might change stuff around or at least try hard. Plus I like the fact that he is all about limiting the government but not a crazy like Ron Paul and he realizes that we need to prevent/cure problems that plague us and not waste all of our money trying to treat them.
Huckabee promised to start by changing the constitution to reflect the "word of God".

That really scares me...as much as perhaps G.Dub not being able to pronounce word "nuclear"....
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      02-13-2008, 06:36 PM   #56
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Huckabee promised to start by changing the constitution to reflect the "word of God".

That really scares me...as much as perhaps G.Dub not being able to pronounce word "nuclear"....
Why do you have such a fear of god and religion? This entire country was founded on GOD. Your basic rights as a human come from a belief of a higher power.
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      02-13-2008, 06:41 PM   #57
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Again you list things that have no facts to back them up.. You list things that Bush has no control over.. Gas prices LOL, its called the free market controls prices.

Again whats wrong with education? More and more people are going to college than ever before, our test scores are up but still need to be worked on.

Whats wrong with a deficit? its not always a bad thing to have, then again some one will bring up china which only owns 1/25 of the debt that Japan has from the USA.

Housing... Whats wrong with this? People strated playing the housing market like the stock market and house prices ran unchecked against income of folks, people over bought. What if someone making $30k a year walked into the BMW dealer and leased or finances a fully loaded 335i knowing they could only afford it for a year, do you feel sorry they lost that fully loaded 335i I dont and you and I shouldnt have to pay for him to keep his 335i.

Economy? Whats wrong with the economy, right now its having a little trouble because of the housing market.. Most notably because investment companies in the 2nd hand market bought mortgages thinking they were a stable and safe way to earn a return, well now they have a bunch of worthless mortgages from investors who tried to make a quick buck or folks who bought more home than they could afford. Might I add that Vanguard is one of the few companies who didnt invest peoples money into 2nd hand purchases of mortgages to gain a return.

Second your fallacy on lower jobs has no proof or merit, if that was the case we would of been in trouble in 04-05 but no it was the biggest booming period.

Who cares about world respect, just because what your doing is not popular doesnt mean its wrong to do. And we have plenty of countries who respect us, in the end you cant be friends with everyone. You should know this everyone learned this in high school again do whats right not what popular, and folks like Clinton and Obama are populists and do and say whats popular despite not being able to make any change.. Granted its not much better on the republican side or any side for that matter, they all say whats popular and do nothing.

Iraq... Alright ill give you this one we were probably better off leaving it alone, but again it caused a few countries to change their ways in terms of going after terrorist. But then again Sadam was paying suicide bombers but then agin Sadam didnt like Iran.. So its kind of a wash.. Personally I would of let it be since eventually Iran and Iraq would go at it again.

Afganistan.. No one said it was going to be easy, its a large country with a lot of places to hide and the culture is not giving up anyone easily. We really cant do much more, our military strength lies in missiles and in the Air when we are on the ground our advantages diminishes greatly.

Any facts to back up your claim on Afganistan??? I doubt it..

Dollar.. Again Bush cant control this, its mostly speculation right now, and having a weak dollar actually helps us out since we export more and that helps reduce the deficit. So this creates more jobs and profit for american companies. In a few years the dollars value will only increase and we will be better off since now we will have efficient american companies since we have had years of work exporting and have a competitive advantage in the world market.

Gas prices- are controlled by the market, Bush tried to bring the price down with tax cuts but that didnt work no one passed it.. Most of your price in gas ranges from 40cent a gallon is in taxes. The gas companies are private companies who charge what the market price is, they take tremendous risks in terms of investing in oil exploration and extraction and make very little profit per gallon vs some other industry, its just the gas companies deal with such great volume.

And dont kid yourself, taxing corporations more will only come back down to the consumer paying more to cover the increase in tax. Increasing tax on anyone only hurts the folks below. If you increase the tax on say Exxon the price of gas goes up to cover that so you pay more, if you increase the tax on the "wealthy" they buy less and companies have to fire off employees since sales are down.


Bush tried to privatizes healthcare but congress said nooo.. Everyone knows anything the government runs is a disaster. And by allowing folks to chose a company outside of their own state without restrictions the competition would drive prices down and quality up. Having government controlled health care is something you dont want, it costs to much to run and is very wasteful. Ask yourself why do folks from other countries come to ours for healthcare? Its efficient for the most part and the costs are reasonable.



What the hell is the middle class? No one knows its just a term that is thrown around.. Some say a family that makes $50k a year others say $50-70k... To be under the upper class term I have read several places that only requires $65k+ in cash or cash equivalent on hand.

And dont bring up folks earning the minimum wage.. Lets take a look at that.. I cant recall the number but over 80% earning min wage are teenagers supported by their parents aka having your first job, the rest breaks down to single folks with only a small percentage of married folks earning it, and the rest were part time workers.


Again a lot of folks ask for a lot of things out of a man that has no control over it yet its easy to blame on person. But again yes bush is human and makes errors but his errors can not go into action without the approval of either the house of reps or congress so its not fair to blame bush, like I said it takes 2 out of the 3 branches to get something done and its easier to blame 1 person and hard to defend yourself if your that 1 person when you have 40-50 democrats pointing and distorting things when it goes south after just agreeing with you.


Dont blame bush on healthcare costs, its all the red tape from insurance companies, and the price will only go up until we have real competition in the insurance industry which bush fought for. I think Liberman also agrees with bush (dont quote me on this) that we need to cut the red tape and allow folks to purchase insurance from any company they want so it creates a competitive market and reduces prices.. Right now living in my state I cant go buy from a company in another state that is offering it cheaper, so I have all these insurance companies in my state that basically have a high set rate.


Bush tried to improve education by allowing failing teachers to be fired, but the teachers opposed this along with the democrats who always support the teachers.. Again bush wanted to bring the free market approach to schools by allowing only the best of the best to keep their jobs, private and public universities do this so why shouldn't a grade school or high school do it also? And another thing education shouldn't just be taught at school but parents have the obligation to teacher their children also.
So ... what flavor is your Bush Koolaide???? You have obviously been drinking A LOT OF IT.
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      02-13-2008, 06:54 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Facts are easy to present there, don't be lazy, do a little research...
Or even better, go out and travel, the facts are going to bombard you...

Anyway, let me start from the bottom:

Bush tried to improve education by ...
I tried to win the lottery once, and it did not work, so I stopped playing...
He tried. The effective leader succeeds with the positive ideas. He knows of no diplomacy internationally, or in his own house, therefore, he created a thing that now everyone wants to opose his proposals and vice versa, and guess what -- our children and the middle class are suffering...

Again, when I mention education improvements, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Luckily for me, I received my basic education abroad, where I grew up, in the third world country as O'Riley would say... At the age of 5 I knew how to read, write, add, some english words, at the age of 8 I could tell you the capital of Iraq and point Kansas on the map. I came here, to the USA, went to college and was not required to attend Calculus 1, 2 and 3 classes at all, because, guess what, it was a part of a regular ciriculum at the High School...and so on...

Dont think all schools are like that dont be ignorant to that fact, yes some schools are like that but not for the most part. Where I went to school I was balancing chemical equations in 7th grade, and then taking college level math classes my sophomore year in high school (most of the kids I went to college with also didnt have to take any math) Now my high school did have a 98%+ graduation rate and 80% + went on to a 4 year college. Granted I was more motivated then some students, and the reason being is I believe in taking self responsibility and not depending on the government to take care of me, and what I do in school is for my own benefit. But again you go to the worst parts of the country and try and label that as how the entire country is.


Dont blame bush on healthcare costs, its all the red tape from insurance companies...

WOW, are you for real, or just pretending that the government has nothing to do with this. Why are canadians paying 1/10 for the medicine that we do -- the same manufacturer, same medicine??? Why did I purchase the anti-biotic in the country mentioned above for $0.30, and paid $85 for the same one here??? I would never completely blame it on the insurance companies for being allowed to do that.


The Canadians pay more taxes, it takes months to see a specialist. Again they pay for it just in another way, you cant have a free lunch its not possible. Insurance companies are the real reason for higher costs, doctors have to pay more for insurance to cover malpractice, some with medical companies and hospitals.


But again yes bush is human and makes errors but his errors can not go into action without the approval of either the house of reps or congress so its not fair to blame bush, like I said it takes 2 out of the 3 branches t

Most of the "errors" he made were intentional, and because of his hard headness. A simple example is Iraq where he came out simply saying -- "You're either with me, or you're our enemy" (paraphrased). A typical dictatorship phrase I have heard many times when I lived in a Communist regime and in a dictatorship regime...
He broke the rules, he should be punished for that, not simply saying - -"well, we all make errors".
Can you imagine if for example the CEO bid a few times on a completely wrong thing, lost tons of money, had his best workers tied up in that wrong thing for an infinite period, while his company is sinking daily... How long before he would be no more???

Again it takes 2 branches of government to do anything, so you need to go back and take government class again.

What the hell is the middle class? No one knows its just a term that is thrown around.. Some say a family that makes $50k a year others say $50-70k... To be under the upper class term I have read several
Exactly what I'm saying. This country was known for a big middle class and all other "bad" systems basically had the rich and poor only. Our middle class is disappearing because the inflation ate the ability of it to exist. The basics are doubled in price over the last decades...
The middle class should be someone making from $xxx to $97.5k per family. Unfortunately, there is no way that those can afford a decent house, taxes, two cars, healthcare premiums and send two of their children to colleges...

What has doubled? Again you throw out words with nothing to back them up, if you add in inflation most consumer goods are cheaper today than ever before, same goes with GAS if you adjust the price of gas now to what the $ was worth 30-40 years ago its cheaper today to buy gas and gas should in theory be at $4-5 a gallon.

Dollar.. /Gas Prices

Again, printing money killed the dollar.
Allowing Exxon and others to make huge (unheard of) profits knowing that we had no other choice allowed the prices to go where they are.
I know, you will say -- free markets... OK, I agree, but tell me why then the govt limits those gas companies to jack up the prices to $10/gallon in desaster stricken areas -- like after hurricanes, and so on??? It is a free market after all. Why are they allowed to tap into their business then???

First off you avoided the subject yet again like you did in all my other responses and then again back to name calling and pointing blame on someone who has no control over the issues you have brought up.

You need to take economics again (doubt you had it). Like I said per gallon gas companies compared to other products make almost nothing, they just deal on a large amount of volume. The government limits prices in disaster to prevent price gouging and taking advantage of a disaster, ever hear the old saying dont kick someone when they are all ready down well its trying to prevent that. Most companies would not do this since the bad publicly would hurt them but they have little control over the independent operators hence the law in place.

For instance in my state its illegal to deny anyone water, so you are forced to give people water for free (To a point). That isnt free market is it?


Housing... Whats wrong with this?
Are you serious???
Anyone with any financial sense in the administration should have known what was about to happen, and prevent it. Not wait for 2M people to lose their homes, then step in...
Just to add:
- Whole Kartina fiasco is the same deal -- waited for it to escalate, then stepped in
- other things are going the same way -- education ,spending, military, healthcare, social security -- nothing is done about it until it is way too late...bad leadership...

So you said it yourself anyone with any sense should of know better, so why should we bail out investors or people who over bought????

I really dont care if 2 million folks lose their home its not my fault that they bought something they couldnt afford.. I know someone right now that has 5 condos they bought and are bankrupt because the market cooled off and they were hoping to flip them and make profit.. I dont feel sorry for them at all so why should we the tax payers bail people like that out who knew investing is a risk.


This would be like me walking in and buying a ferrari knowing I could only make the payments for the first 3-4 months, car goes away when I cant pay right? nope wrong government should step in and pay for my mistake.

Another thing.. Lets say I bought apples stock at its peak then it drops 50% the next day.. Should the government help me out? no.


Afghanistan
http://www.usip.org/pubs/usipeace_br...ghanistan.html

This is the first thing that popped in the search, there is thousands more...do your search.
I also hear similar things from friends returning from Afghanistan...

The bottom line is - -we're worse in EVERY aspect than 8 years ago, simple as that. Some things are not to be attributed to the current administration, however, the majority of them are the direct failure of Bush and people around him.
The biggest failures are yet to be seen and felt, but by then, Bush and other criminals will simply put the blame on the next guy...
..
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      02-13-2008, 08:57 PM   #59
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Why do you have such a fear of god and religion? This entire country was founded on GOD. Your basic rights as a human come from a belief of a higher power.
This country WAS NOT founded on religion or GOD!!!
My basic rights come from the Constitution. I suggest you read it.

We are NOT a Christian nation.

Why fear religion? I'll go straight to the point.

THE TEN REASONS:

(sorry, I couldn’t put it on a tablet)

1. Dark ages (for 10+ centuries, human race haven’t progressed an inch)

2. Witch hunts (countless women burn at stake for BS)

3. Which religion is correct? 4 major and thousands of minor exist!

4. Indoctrination of children = child abuse. Kids are not allowed to choose their religion!!!

5. Lack of critical thinking (This is the core of science, a self correcting machine)

6. Claimed monopoly on truth and the High Moral Horse you ride on

7. All based on anecdotal evidence and man-made book

8. It usually starts as a quick “soul” fix and ends up in fundamentalism (born again!!!)

9. HYPOCRISY (I can write a thesis on this one)

10. Money-laundering, tax-free, gullible-exploiting machine

That’s just of the top of my head.
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      02-13-2008, 10:33 PM   #60
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..
First of all your comment about per gallon profit is nothing, just the volume is a pure BS again. A typical O'Riley response with no clue...
Yes, the demand grew, but nowhere to 3x in the last 7 years...especially compared to previous 10 years... WHen W took the office, the gas price was $1.2, today it is >$3.
The volume sold then by the gas companies was more than 1/2 of todays.
The profits then were nowhere near the profits today...
Simple as that... Then, your O'Riley tells you all that crap, and you buy it and re-elect the lunatic...

As for the Canadian healthcare -- again, pure FOX crap talk with absolutely no facts. I know many canadians and many that moved from here up to canada and vice versa. The wait story is a pure BS. Yes, there is a wait possible, so is here -- I had to wait 8 months in FL to see dermatologist to tell me if the mole was cancerous... Was that an important doctor's visit -- you bet. And I had PPO. I can imagine the wait for the HMO folks...
Talk to people, travel, see for yourself, do not copy/paste FOX shit here thinking you learned something from them...

Yes, Canadians PAy more taxes, but nothing else, we pay les taxes, but then additional 25% of our income in other crap. Overall, comes to the same, but they know that if they have or lose their job, they will ALWAYS have the medical coverage...
You say in your precious state (I lived there for 2 years and loved PHX) they cannot deny water, but I know very well they CAN deny the medical coverage and visit if you get laid off to your 6-month-old baby!!!

ANd finally, you compare gambling (stocks) with people not having roof above their heads because they were uneducated about the economy the republican way, and because they were tricked!!! Don't you understand that the majority of those 2M homeless now are with low or no education, low income class??? Do you really think that the person that understood the concept or that was educated would go for it???

Unbelievable how cruel right side is as long as no one touches their precious $$$.
Let me also ask, where is your social security check going to come from (or lets say you republican, money-lover baby boomer dad's check) if the taxes are not raised??? From the bankrupt country??? Be real, and use that brain of yours...
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      02-14-2008, 11:37 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
First of all your comment about per gallon profit is nothing, just the volume is a pure BS again. A typical O'Riley response with no clue...
Yes, the demand grew, but nowhere to 3x in the last 7 years...especially compared to previous 10 years... WHen W took the office, the gas price was $1.2, today it is >$3.
The volume sold then by the gas companies was more than 1/2 of todays.
The profits then were nowhere near the profits today...
Simple as that... Then, your O'Riley tells you all that crap, and you buy it and re-elect the lunatic...

As for the Canadian healthcare -- again, pure FOX crap talk with absolutely no facts. I know many canadians and many that moved from here up to canada and vice versa. The wait story is a pure BS. Yes, there is a wait possible, so is here -- I had to wait 8 months in FL to see dermatologist to tell me if the mole was cancerous... Was that an important doctor's visit -- you bet. And I had PPO. I can imagine the wait for the HMO folks...
Talk to people, travel, see for yourself, do not copy/paste FOX shit here thinking you learned something from them...

Yes, Canadians PAy more taxes, but nothing else, we pay les taxes, but then additional 25% of our income in other crap. Overall, comes to the same, but they know that if they have or lose their job, they will ALWAYS have the medical coverage...
You say in your precious state (I lived there for 2 years and loved PHX) they cannot deny water, but I know very well they CAN deny the medical coverage and visit if you get laid off to your 6-month-old baby!!!

ANd finally, you compare gambling (stocks) with people not having roof above their heads because they were uneducated about the economy the republican way, and because they were tricked!!! Don't you understand that the majority of those 2M homeless now are with low or no education, low income class??? Do you really think that the person that understood the concept or that was educated would go for it???

Unbelievable how cruel right side is as long as no one touches their precious $$$.
Let me also ask, where is your social security check going to come from (or lets say you republican, money-lover baby boomer dad's check) if the taxes are not raised??? From the bankrupt country??? Be real, and use that brain of yours...


As a finance major you are wrong... One of the first items look at in a company is profit margin, and oil companies have a very very very low profit margin and one would assume thats very bad normally it is but when you multiply that small profit margin times billions of gallons in sales it isnt.

If you want to compare profit margins for liquids then go learn about bottled water, its pure stealing from the consumer, per gallon most bottled waters run $2-3 and most of the time that water is nothing more than tap water bought for 1-2 cents a gallon.


And your ignoring demand growths from China, India ect. All of them have more cars today than ever before.. Demand has risen and supply is easily disrupted because of threats of terrorism.. Right now we are paying around $20-30 a barrel more than we should but this is terrorism fear tax.. I am a firm believer that oil will drop in the coming years back down to $30-$40 a barrel.

And again you point to bush as the cause, Bush has no control over this. Its a free market run by investors.

And if you think taxing the companies more will help only the price of gas for the end consumer will go up. Just like if the price for a barrel of oil goes up it gets passed onto the consumer. And if you dont like it then buy an electric car.
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      02-14-2008, 11:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
This country WAS NOT founded on religion or GOD!!!
My basic rights come from the Constitution. I suggest you read it.

We are NOT a Christian nation.

Why fear religion? I'll go straight to the point.

THE TEN REASONS:

(sorry, I couldn’t put it on a tablet)

1. Dark ages (for 10+ centuries, human race haven’t progressed an inch)

2. Witch hunts (countless women burn at stake for BS)

3. Which religion is correct? 4 major and thousands of minor exist!

4. Indoctrination of children = child abuse. Kids are not allowed to choose their religion!!!

5. Lack of critical thinking (This is the core of science, a self correcting machine)

6. Claimed monopoly on truth and the High Moral Horse you ride on

7. All based on anecdotal evidence and man-made book

8. It usually starts as a quick “soul” fix and ends up in fundamentalism (born again!!!)

9. HYPOCRISY (I can write a thesis on this one)

10. Money-laundering, tax-free, gullible-exploiting machine

That’s just of the top of my head.

Well you better go back and read some history on our founding fathers, and how our basic rights came to be that were put into the Constitution. And if you think 1 pice of paper is going to protect your rights then I am worried.

Again John lock, Adam Smith, ect. All believed in god and that god gave to humans certain rights that man could not take away.

1st act of the continental congress---- elect a chaplin
2nd cat of continental congress---- buy bibles

The entire god out of our country crap didnt start until a long time after our country was founded on the principles of a higher power.

But do some reading into history you are just plain wrong, you dont have to believe in a god but I am telling you this country was founded on the belief in god. And the only rule agist this is the government can not have a state sponsored religion or prefer one religion over another, as long as you dont violate these rules god can be in any political thing ect.


And no one said its a Christian nation, a higher power or a god can be found in just about all world religions.
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      02-24-2008, 04:40 PM   #63
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      02-24-2008, 05:47 PM   #64
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Well you better go back and read some history on our founding fathers, and how our basic rights came to be that were put into the Constitution. And if you think 1 pice of paper is going to protect your rights then I am worried.

Again John lock, Adam Smith, ect. All believed in god and that god gave to humans certain rights that man could not take away.

1st act of the continental congress---- elect a chaplin
2nd cat of continental congress---- buy bibles

The entire god out of our country crap didnt start until a long time after our country was founded on the principles of a higher power.

But do some reading into history you are just plain wrong, you dont have to believe in a god but I am telling you this country was founded on the belief in god. And the only rule agist this is the government can not have a state sponsored religion or prefer one religion over another, as long as you dont violate these rules god can be in any political thing ect.


And no one said its a Christian nation, a higher power or a god can be found in just about all world religions.
The FIRST amendment is the separation of the church and state!!!!!!

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment refers to the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."

And WHICH God was this nation founded on? As you well know all the religions require that you MUST worship a specific God, or you go to hell!!!
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      02-24-2008, 06:07 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
The FIRST amendment is the separation of the church and state!!!!!!

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment refers to the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."

And WHICH God was this nation founded on? As you well know all the religions require that you MUST worship a specific God, or you go to hell!!!

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Do you defend the right of all persons to the free exercise of religion? Or would you prohibit?
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      02-25-2008, 12:24 PM   #66
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Repost, I know. Belongs here, though.

"The question is if there was there a connection between his wife Glenda Fields’s five-figure political donations and Huckabee’s action. On April 14, 2004, then-Gov. Huckabee commuted the sentence of Mr. Fields — then a four-time driving-while-intoxicated offender — granting him early release from prison. Fields, a resident of the western Arkansas town of Van Buren, was a habitual offender. He had already been convicted of DWIs in 1996, 1998, and 2000, but his 2001 felony-DWI conviction resulted in the maximum six-year prison sentence and a $5,000 fine.

The political contributions by the Fields family — large by Arkansas standards — went unreported at the time Huckabee granted Eugene Fields executive clemency. The size of the donations places the Fields family in the top tier of the state GOP’s donors, alongside Arkansas aristocracy like the scions of the Fords and Stephens families. Both Scott Ford, CEO of Alltel, and Warren Stephens, CEO of Stephens, Inc., gave the Arkansas Republican party $10,000 in 2003."

Sling the mud.

Huckabee is a slime, just like all the others.
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