[Tondtar]

Trying to spread some more Holiday cheers

[jerrybajwa]

haha thats fucked up

[endofanera7]

lol

[NaTuReB0Y]

Imagine a day without a Mexican......

Yeah......who's laughing now!

[SDTopless]

^--- 1 way of looking at that is:

1. there'd be a lot more jobs available
2. unemployment would go down
3. increase in wages because new employees aren't illegal
4. more buying power for consumers
5. stimulation of economy

[eazydoezit]

Originally Posted by SDTopless

^--- 1 way of looking at that is:

1. there'd be a lot more jobs available
2. unemployment would go down
3. increase in wages because new employees aren't illegal
4. more buying power for consumers
5. stimulation of economy

^^^This is one stupid way of looking at it

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by eazydoezit

^^^This is one stupid way of looking at it

+1 very stupid

americans are too lazy and too self righteous to do the jobs that imigrants do


and hahaha...thats fucked up

[UncleWede]

That's PART of why I married an American of Mexican descent; tacos de papas, albondigas, caldo de camerones, chile verde.

[lauer87]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

+1 very stupid

americans are too lazy and too self righteous to do the jobs that imigrants do


and hahaha...thats fucked up

Well actually, if the excess supply of uneducated illegal immigrant labor wasn't available, more "Americans" would be willing to do those jobs because the wages would be approaching a "living" wage.

Don't get me wrong, we need the immigrants just as much as they need us, but its not as cut and dry as some would make it out to be.

[aut0sh0cker]

how the hell did this thread get so political?????

[shockin330i]

Ramon Ayala is the sh*t!!! He lives about 10 minutes from my house

Originally Posted by SDTopless

^--- 1 way of looking at that is:

1. there'd be a lot more jobs available
2. unemployment would go down
3. increase in wages because new employees aren't illegal
4. more buying power for consumers
5. stimulation of economy

Any who. Increase in wages equals an increase in prices.
Increase wages usually means job loses. Companies will simply reduce production or make an employee work a littlbe bit harder.

You also forget that they pay taxes when it comes to clothing, gas, etc.

I guess someone fell asleep in economics :tsk:

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by aut0sh0cker

how the hell did this thread get so political?????

my bad....

[lauer87]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

Ramon Ayala is the sh*t!!! He lives about 10 minutes from my house


Any who. Increase in wages equals an increase in prices.
Increase wages usually means job loses. Companies will simply reduce production or make an employee work a littlbe bit harder.

You also forget that they pay taxes when it comes to clothing, gas, etc.

I guess someone fell asleep in economics :tsk:

I tended not to sleep through any of my classes actually, especially economics. I said it above and I'll say it again, I'm not against the immigrants, they do provide a very valuable service, just trying to show the other side to the story because not all Americans are "too lazy" to do these jobs.

You are correct about increases in wages normally leading to increases in prices. If the abundant supply of cheap labor wasn't available, prices for some goods/services could increase, OR one of two things would happen:

1. Companies would increase their capital expenditures so that fewer employees could produce the same amount with lower labor inputs (increased productivity), and continue producing at the same price.

2. The said companies could decide its no longer feasible to produce in the U.S. and either shut down completely OR move operations to a foreign country where the wages are naturally lower, increasing imports of the given good/service at the same price.

As for the taxes, yes they do pay SOME taxes on their consumption.
BUT, for the most part because they are paid under the table, they don't contribute to federal or state income tax, unemployment, social security and a host of other taxes.

One other thing to be considered is that illegal immigrants as a group tend to not spend anywhere close to the % of disposable income back into the economy as the "average" American consumer does. They normally send a very high % of their incomes back to their home country to family and others.

With that being said, we aren't going to just get rid of them. We need to come up with a workable solution as a country, so that these hard working people can become citizens of this country.

[darkphantom]

Do you really want to move this into the politics section?

For starters, immigrants make up 10million people in the labor force. This labor force primarily consists of unskilled labor. Majority of these positions are filled by immigrants because non-immigrant workers are the minority when it comes to being employed in these type of jobs. As a result, the aggregate demand for unskilled labor will increase if the immigrants leave, and the aggregate supply will be insufficient.

You have to realize that unemployment would rise, rather than fall...also short-run failures indicate that workers in the construction industry seem to have some learned experience required to operate the machinery and construct civil structures. For these jobs, there will be training required to hire new workers, and motivate them to leave other jobs.

The U.S. population is ~300 million, and if 10million immigrants were to leave....that is a big chunk of the population, not to mention the labor force.

You can also see long term effects in cities widely populated by immigrants. You would have states with large immigrant populations such as california and texas in a huge population decline and there would be a decreased in consumer spending
-note that consumer spending does not depend on immigrants/residents but merely consumers stimulating the economy, so by exporting immigrants, you would NOT stimulate the economy

there is a long list but I think I will end here...

[SDTopless]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

+1 very stupid

americans are too lazy and too self righteous to do the jobs that imigrants do


and hahaha...thats fucked up

I can guarantee you that there are millions of immigrants from Asia that wouldn't mind doing the work.

1. they get to come to the U.S. (very hard to get a VISA here)
2. they come legally

[darkphantom]

The United States is a nation of immigrants, did anyone forget that?! Where did our fore-fathers come from?! THEY IMMIGRATED HERE.

What happened to the poor native americans? They were shot/raped/killed.

[lauer87]

I never said I was anti-immigrants at all, in fact far from it. I am just trying to point out that while it is a positive sum gain, negatives do exist. IMO currently illegal immigrants are modern day slaves, something has to be done to change this through public policy(amnesty, path to citizenship, etc.).

I've said my part, and I didn't want to turn it into a political debate, so I'm done with it

[lauer87]

Originally Posted by darkphantom

You can also see long term effects in cities widely populated by immigrants. You would have states with large immigrant populations such as california and texas in a huge population decline and there would be a decreased in consumer spending
-note that consumer spending does not depend on immigrants/residents but merely consumers stimulating the economy, so by exporting immigrants, you would NOT stimulate the economy

I agree that consumer spending as a whole would drop if they all up and left. I was saying immigrants' mpc's compared to non-immigrants is far less, and small changes in mpc effect the consumption function greatly.

[darkphantom]

Originally Posted by lauer87

I never said I was anti-immigrants at all, in fact far from it. I am just trying to point out that while it is a positive sum gain, negatives do exist. IMO currently illegal immigrants are modern day slaves, something has to be done to change this through public policy(amnesty, path to citizenship, etc.).

I've said my part, and I didn't want to turn it into a political debate, so I'm done with it

Agreed, I am sad that this is still occurring in modern day 1st world countries...and there HAS to be a way for the Government to allow something to be done....I mean there are people who have been living here for 10 years with no citizenship....but people who are "close" to the government can get citizenships like no tomorrow... contemporary slavery is a negative externality of illegal immigrants, but it is something that is being addressed in the upcoming immigration bill (whenever they do actually propose it...)

Originally Posted by lauer87

I agree that consumer spending as a whole would drop if they all up and left. I was saying immigrants' mpc's compared to non-immigrants is far less, and small changes in mpc effect the consumption function greatly.

MPC for non-immigrants is more because they make more, but additionally, they pay taxes...where as the illegal immigrants just get paid in straight cash - unfortunately, not regulated and can be lower than minimum wage in some/most areas...

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by lauer87

I never said I was anti-immigrants at all, in fact far from it. I am just trying to point out that while it is a positive sum gain, negatives do exist. IMO currently illegal immigrants are modern day slaves, something has to be done to change this through public policy(amnesty, path to citizenship, etc.).

I've said my part, and I didn't want to turn it into a political debate, so I'm done with it

1 post later..

Originally Posted by lauer87

I agree that consumer spending as a whole would drop if they all up and left. I was saying immigrants' mpc's compared to non-immigrants is far less, and small changes in mpc effect the consumption function greatly.

Personally I think the picture is stupid, but the conversation in here definitely made up for it!

To SDTopless... if we were going to give legal immigration to Asians to work the same jobs the Mexicans were, why wouldn't we jsut give the legal status to the Mexicans instead and save us some trouble?

[phatr1s]

somebody fu%^%^ this thread!!!!

[Tondtar]

Originally Posted by phatr1s

somebody fu%^%^ this thread!!!!

It's OK ...I let them play as they wish.

This is OT after all