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      09-28-2010, 10:08 PM   #23
Berduderunner
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really cool bike, but that was a weird and very one sided article...
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      09-28-2010, 10:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtzouris View Post
Please clarify the $90,000 cost to change (4) tires on the Bugatti Veyron. DO you mean $9,000?
I think the $90,000 was too high of an estimate, but not that far off. I read in Road and Track that Michelin spent millions of dollars developing tires that were strong and heat-resistant enough to go 260 mph yet compliant enough for everyday driving. A set of tires alone costs $17,000; the special wheels with Michelinís run-flat PAX system are an additional $43,000.
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      09-28-2010, 11:20 PM   #25
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The bike wins... until you hit a pebble and die, then the veyron (and my mom's toyota) wins.
99% of moms driving Toyota Siennas would agree!
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      09-28-2010, 11:24 PM   #26
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IIRC from Top Gear, the tires cost something like 35,000 British pounds for a set. At 25x mph they would only last something like 39 miles.
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      09-28-2010, 11:41 PM   #27
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At MAX speed, The Bugatti Veyron's tires will melt off the rims in approx 15 minutes, however, it will run out of fuel in 10-12 minutes. Pretty crazy...

read up on it and how it works here

http://www.howstuffworks.com/bugatti.htm/printable
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      09-29-2010, 08:12 AM   #28
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now i know where the bmw gets it's o_0 eyes (headlights) from. they were 0_0 but then it saw the veyron.


LOL
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      09-29-2010, 08:35 AM   #29
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I'm not a bike guy so I'll freely admit that maybe I just don't "get it." But I'll always take 4 wheels and 4 sets of brakes over 2 wheels and 2 sets of brakes. That's what gives cars the advantage through corners. Motorcycles are quick because they're light; just an engine with wheels, really. If you do that to a car (i recall the Ariel Atom test on Top Gear) it will be quicker than a bike.

That said, I have much respect for the 1000rr because it is very impressive. It's just not for me.
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      09-29-2010, 09:39 AM   #30
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Great bike
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      09-29-2010, 10:04 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cramp View Post
I think the $90,000 was too high of an estimate, but not that far off. I read in Road and Track that Michelin spent millions of dollars developing tires that were strong and heat-resistant enough to go 260 mph yet compliant enough for everyday driving. A set of tires alone costs $17,000; the special wheels with Michelinís run-flat PAX system are an additional $43,000.
Not only that, but there is no stock of tires anywhere. Whenever you need them, Michelin will dust off the molds and pour some fresh rubber into them, just for you. And since they are unique (with unique aspect ratios and all) to the Veyron, there is no economy of scale for them and no alternative for the Veyron owner either.

To make matters more complicated, Bugatti requires that you change tires every year no matter the miles - that's because they might deform/age/get-hit-by-cosmic-rays/whatever and are no longer certified for top speed after 1 year.

And for icing on this cake, they require the wheels to be changed every 2 years as well - because, yep, you've guessed it, they can go out of round and basically are no longer certified for top speed runs after 2 years.

We haven't even gone into mechanical maintenance per se.


These things, perhaps even more so than the initial purchase cost, are what separates the buyer category who can really afford a Veyron from everybody else.
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      09-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #32
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Not the law of physics as much as the encounters with with incompetent drivers and a few incompetent riders. Motorcycles are fairly safe until a car pulls out in front of you and you T bone it. Then there are always a few riders that think they are a lot better than they are and the road is always going to be good to them.
I agree. I was referring to the earlier centrifugal force comment. Motorcycles are "very safe" until someone else tries to kill you on one. Unfortunately that is ALL THE TIME. You are just way more exposed when this happens. 16X more likely to die per mile when compared to a car. Pointing a gun at your head is very safe until you pull the trigger.

The difference is, when it comes to riding a motorcycle, someone is eventually going to pull the trigger for you. I see motorcyclists in the emergency department all the time and they just "can't believe" that a@@hole "cut them off". Lots of people, at times, are not paying attention when they drive. Thats why cars have crumple zones, seat belts and umpteen airbags now. So when you design a mode of transportation that is much more likely to not be seen and then eliminate all of those safety systems, its not really surprising to see such a high percentage of deaths in the ED involving motorcycles. So its the other drivers that screw you, and then the laws of physics that smash your head into the ground.

The bottom line is, it's quite dangerous over time no matter how you slice it. If someone enjoys it and wants to "live a little" thats totally cool with me (not that it matters what I think), but most don't understand the magnitude of the risk. (although I still don't understand why I get a ticket for not buckling up, but its ok to ride a motorcycle; in many places without a helmet.) Many rationalize that they are extremely skilled on a bike and its just those that don't know what they are doing that are at high risk which simply isn't true.
But don't get me wrong, I very much respect your right to ride, want it to be fun and hope you stay safe!
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      09-29-2010, 06:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by That Nice Guy Beck! View Post
my s1000rr

btw the s1000rr is the most incredible machine I have ever driven period.




Hi,

You are seriously living my automotive dream life. That is basically my dream garage.

Sincerely,

Schm
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      09-29-2010, 11:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfeltiii View Post
I agree. I was referring to the earlier centrifugal force comment. Motorcycles are "very safe" until someone else tries to kill you on one. Unfortunately that is ALL THE TIME. You are just way more exposed when this happens. 16X more likely to die per mile when compared to a car. Pointing a gun at your head is very safe until you pull the trigger.

The difference is, when it comes to riding a motorcycle, someone is eventually going to pull the trigger for you. I see motorcyclists in the emergency department all the time and they just "can't believe" that a@@hole "cut them off". Lots of people, at times, are not paying attention when they drive. Thats why cars have crumple zones, seat belts and umpteen airbags now. So when you design a mode of transportation that is much more likely to not be seen and then eliminate all of those safety systems, its not really surprising to see such a high percentage of deaths in the ED involving motorcycles. So its the other drivers that screw you, and then the laws of physics that smash your head into the ground.

The bottom line is, it's quite dangerous over time no matter how you slice it. If someone enjoys it and wants to "live a little" thats totally cool with me (not that it matters what I think), but most don't understand the magnitude of the risk. (although I still don't understand why I get a ticket for not buckling up, but its ok to ride a motorcycle; in many places without a helmet.) Many rationalize that they are extremely skilled on a bike and its just those that don't know what they are doing that are at high risk which simply isn't true.
But don't get me wrong, I very much respect your right to ride, want it to be fun and hope you stay safe!
Well said.

I won't argue with any of that because it is born out statistically in the HURT study. Every time I swing my leg over my bike, I know it could be my last day alive. I'm very aware and seeking out the first sign of any such risks every second I'm on my bike, and that takes complete concentration at a level that I don't get to in a car.

On the other hand, extreme concentration on something so basic as self preservation is extraordinarily mentally relaxing because it necessitates pushing aside life's stresses that for me won't yield any other way. Some have compared it to meditation, and that mental relief alone is worth the risk for some. Not to mention the fact that very few cars under let's say $500k (and I've driven some amazing cars owned by people other than me) can compare to a current technology litre+ bike in terms of pure driving exhilaration. It kind of ruins you for fast cars because so few even come close.
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      09-30-2010, 12:06 AM   #35
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I came in here expecting a video.

I am disappoint.
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      09-30-2010, 12:54 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maswastage View Post
I'm not a bike guy so I'll freely admit that maybe I just don't "get it." But I'll always take 4 wheels and 4 sets of brakes over 2 wheels and 2 sets of brakes. That's what gives cars the advantage through corners. Motorcycles are quick because they're light; just an engine with wheels, really. If you do that to a car (i recall the Ariel Atom test on Top Gear) it will be quicker than a bike.

That said, I have much respect for the 1000rr because it is very impressive. It's just not for me.
A well ridden sportbike will usually beat a car, even through the corners. Sport Rider Magazine did a comparison: BMW S1000RR vs. E92 M3 around Streets of Willow. The S1000RR SPANKED the DCT equipped M3 by over 6.5 seconds. That is FRIGGIN' HUGE! Half of those seconds came on straight-aways, and the rest came in the turns.

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...son/index.html


Just like anything though, you can always find one vehicle that will beat another, especially if you get esoteric enough.
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      09-30-2010, 12:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_Calgary View Post
Not to mention the fact that very few cars under let's say $500k (and I've driven some amazing cars owned by people other than me) can compare to a current technology litre+ bike in terms of pure driving exhilaration. It kind of ruins you for fast cars because so few even come close.
No kidding! Even my entry-ish level 645cc V-twin Suzuki Gladius does 0-60 in under 4 seconds (3.8 seconds by one test.) Not bad for a $6,000 bike. You aren't going to buy a car that can accelerate that fast for less than 10 times that amount.....
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      09-30-2010, 09:24 AM   #38
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The S1000RR is such a beautiful bike, but can anyone tell me why the headlights are googly-eyed?
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      10-01-2010, 02:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_Calgary View Post
Well said.

I won't argue with any of that because it is born out statistically in the HURT study. Every time I swing my leg over my bike, I know it could be my last day alive. I'm very aware and seeking out the first sign of any such risks every second I'm on my bike, and that takes complete concentration at a level that I don't get to in a car.

On the other hand, extreme concentration on something so basic as self preservation is extraordinarily mentally relaxing because it necessitates pushing aside life's stresses that for me won't yield any other way. Some have compared it to meditation, and that mental relief alone is worth the risk for some. Not to mention the fact that very few cars under let's say $500k (and I've driven some amazing cars owned by people other than me) can compare to a current technology litre+ bike in terms of pure driving exhilaration. It kind of ruins you for fast cars because so few even come close.
Also well said.

In the interest of full disclosure, only half my passion for this comes from working in emergency medicine. The other half is because my wife would never let me get a bike. Dammit!
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      10-02-2010, 09:35 PM   #40
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As a previous owner of super sport class motorcycle. I can say without a doubt there is no car I have ever driven that is as much fun or as fast as my GSXR-1000 and I have driven some seriously fast and fun cars like Ford GT etc.

I just love the BMW 1000 RR it is a great machine for great price. However, I have to say the car is 100 times safer then a motorcycle. In USA you really have to watch your back all the time as a motorcyclist. Because people treat motorcyclist as third class citizens on road and do not watch out for them. Most of the time the motorcycle wrecks are the fault of some one in an SUV, truck or a car. People do not watch out and run into you or cut you off in a really bad fashion.

I think motorcyles are more safer to drive in european or asian countries then in the USA. As people are more used to them in europe/asia and actually know how to share the road with them.
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