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      02-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #23
ScotchAndCigar
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Think Bill Maher with a sprinkle of religion.
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      02-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
It's one who believes in real personal freedom, not the fake conservative version. freedom means get your bogus bible interpretations out of my government. And don't tell people they can't smoke at bars, stuff like that.
That sounds like the description of a liberterian, but I'm not sure where the "democrat" part fits in.

You dont want the gov to tell you that you cant smoke in a bar, but you are OK with the gov telling you that you must surrender more of your income in the form of taxes to provide more benefits for others who may choose to not work ? That doesnt sound like freedom to me.
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      02-17-2012, 05:41 PM   #25
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You're all fixated on the poor - let it go. My income tax serves the same purpose as my property tax, at a different level.
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      02-17-2012, 05:57 PM   #26
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however we need the government for regulation, things like emissions, the environment, discrimination. people don't collectively do what's right .
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      02-17-2012, 07:01 PM   #27
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...so your a democrat than?
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      02-17-2012, 07:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
For the record, I'm not just harpin' on the 'freebie list' I don't believe we should have bailed out all those fat cat banks & corporations either.

This country USED to be based on Capitalism - where anyone can make it big - and anyone call fall...

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Capitalism vs. Socialism:

Within a capitalist society people are free to choose how to utilize their money. They may save it, donate it to charity, or purchase products and services. For these reasons a capitalist society is described as containing a free market. The market is all those things that money can buy, and the people can act freely concerning whether and what they buy. Within a socialist society the means of production and distribution are either determined by all the people through a government, or else select individuals within government decide for the people what will be produced and in what quantity, as well as determine who is entitled to that which is produced
Our society is largely based on capitalism with some socialist elements. It's been that way for decades, certainly all my lifetime. But I'm curious to let you make your case.

So, exactly when did this country stop being capitalist?

When have you ever been prohibited by the government from saving your money?

When have you ever been prohibited by the government from investing your money the way you want to?

When have you ever been prohibited by the government from donating your money to the charity of your choice?

When have you ever been prohibited by the government from buying something you chose to buy?

What would you like to produce that the government is keeping you from producing?

What have you ever been forced to do by the government against your will?
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      02-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #29
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As my last statement, I would say that if I had stated Obama is the next best thing since sliced bread - I would have been a hero to some

I have my opinions, you have yours & I that. I don't see either of us swaying one to the other.


He ran his initial campaign on 'Change' well I personally have not seen any change for the better. Not saying that other presidents have done much better, but the present one hasn't done anything but go in opposite direction. He had his 4 years so I say let someone else have a turn...



My Capitalism comments were simply included to explain why I don't agree with the bailout.

I was referring to the fact that it is hardly following the Capitalist ideal to take our $$ to spend millions on bailing out the banks and corporations.

When those same banks & corporations are doing well (as they have been for years) - everything is cozy, but as soon as they have big losses, they get their combined a$$es pulled out of the fire.

If you follow the theory, they have control of their own destiny, win or lose, and the gov't should not be interfering.

I'm quite sure there were 100's if not 1000's of smaller companies that went under during the last economic upheaval, or ended up greatly reducing their workforce to stay afloat. Were they saved by the gov't also, I think not...


As to the last item on your list of questions some quik examples would be:
  • I MUST wear a seatbelt by law, or I get fined
  • I MUST NOT smoke in public (bars is only real concern) by law - or I get ejected, or fined, or both
  • I MUST pay into Social Security as a 'supposed' regulated savings plan for my retirement years - yet after paying since 1976, there will probably be no $$ left for when I am eligible. I could have put all that $$ into another form of savings on my own and be guaranteed a return on my investment.
This also goes back to an earlier question on the list - no, they are not prohibiting me from saving my $$ - they're simply telling me how I must do it, with shaky returns at best.



> On another note, anyone have a Black Leather Split Armrest they're looking to sell?


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      02-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #30
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I'm shocked the OP hasn't been labeled a racist yet because he disagrees with Obama...
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      02-19-2012, 05:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
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I'm shocked the OP hasn't been labeled a racist yet because he disagrees with Obama...
I'm shocked you're still making the same lame inference.
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      02-19-2012, 05:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
I'm shocked you're still making the same lame inference.
You're not shocked.

Tell me, how close were you to saying it before I brought it up?

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      02-19-2012, 05:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
You're not shocked.

Tell me, how close were you to saying it before I brought it up?

You're simply using a tactic that is employed in nearly every post here: declaring that the other side thinks stupidly, and hoping that people don't notice that it's not me saying stupid things, it's you saying that I believe stupid things.

There's a clear difference between racism and stupidity, and most people can distinguish that. You claiming that I don't know the difference doesn't make it so. You're one of the least insightful people in this forum.
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      02-19-2012, 06:26 PM   #34
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I'm shocked the OP hasn't been labeled a racist yet because he disagrees with Obama...
I'm shocked it took you this long to play the race card. Just couldn't help yourself could you?
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      02-19-2012, 07:14 PM   #35
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Let's be honest, when someone posts in a forum for the express purpose of stating how stupid it is to post in the forum, it's usually because they want to belittle the poster. As ridiculous as it sounds, there's been an active political forum here for years, as well as a stock market forum, and all sorts of off-topic forums. Nobody else (that I'm aware of) has taken the time to make a post like yours.

I'm well aware of the stigma surrounding BMW owners (amongst non-owners); we're either wealthy snobs, yuppies, or else we just have a need to project a "specialness" that proves we're materialistic. Frankly, I have no idea what that has to do with me, a middle-class, middle-aged, libertarian democrat who's just always loved cars.
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      02-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #36
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Oh BTW...

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      02-20-2012, 02:53 PM   #37
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That's funny. I look at the current GOP field of candidates and that's exactly what I say ... WTF!!!
Which makes it totally Ok that a complete dipshit is currently at the top of the totem pole!
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      02-20-2012, 05:46 PM   #38
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I'm shocked it took you this long to play the race card. Just couldn't help yourself could you?
I was being sarcastic.

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      02-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #39
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Which makes it totally Ok that a complete dipshit is currently at the top of the totem pole!
Ok, we know your Obama hatred gets you hard but let's be serious for a minute. Tell us which of the clowns in the GOP primary clown show really gets you excited?
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      02-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #40
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Which makes it totally Ok that a complete dipshit is currently at the top of the totem pole!
I'm more interested in knowing what makes Obama a dipshit? Even those who don't like his politics mostly think he's a good guy.
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      02-20-2012, 08:13 PM   #41
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I'm more interested in knowing what makes Obama a dipshit? Even those who don't like his politics mostly think he's a good guy.
He seriously does not have a basic grasp of economics...and I would love, love, love, love, love to actually read some of his writings from his law review years...
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      02-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #42
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He seriously does not have a basic grasp of economics
Unless you can support your statement with facts it's just an opinion.

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...and I would love, love, love, love, love to actually read some of his writings from his law review years...
And what would that confirm for you?
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      02-20-2012, 09:05 PM   #43
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Unless you can support your statement with facts it's just an opinion.



And what would that confirm for you?
cash for clunkers and his belief that you can make college more affordable by giving more student loans...and because i like to read the writings of others....
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      02-20-2012, 10:51 PM   #44
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He seriously does not have a basic grasp of economics...and I would love, love, love, love, love to actually read some of his writings from his law review years...
This only proves that you are not to be listened to. In addition to the fact that the stimulus plan was supported by the leading economists, you are perpetuating the infantile premise that an administration's policies are single-handedly conceived, developed, and implemented by a single person - the president.

And why would you question a magna-cum-laude Harvard graduate, who was president of the law review, on his educational credentials? Does it appear to you that he has difficulty delivering speeches, answering questions, or holding debates? Really, just cut the shit and get to your point, if you have one.
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