What do Mormons believe?

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

Lol no I think that's the truth , it was censored and I think you're proving my point.

People are trying to make it wrong to have a difference of opinion if it's against gays or blacks! But they are allowed to say anything, insult, belittle and then call you close minded.

Obviously the sex statement was an extreme to prove a point to scotch considering he wanted to talk about gay people.

You are clearly a bigot, and you have no problems proving that point over and over again, but for some weird reason you are uncomfortable with *that* term. Actions and statements have far more weight than a label, so what is it that makes you deny that label? I love when the right spews out their vile rhetoric and hateful comments, but when you get called out on it you "hide behind" the freedom of speech. I'd have more respect if people would just admit how they really feel. You could have your great 'coming out of the closet moment' here on the forum.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

Lol no I think that's the truth , it was censored and I think you're proving my point.

People are trying to make it wrong to have a difference of opinion if it's against gays or blacks! But they are allowed to say anything, insult, belittle and then call you close minded.

Obviously the sex statement was an extreme to prove a point to scotch considering he wanted to talk about gay people.

I brought up the gay thing because I was honestly suprised to see you back here posting. And like I said, it's not your opinion of gays that stands out (as your opinion is shared by many), it's how you compare everything you don't like in politics to those who support gay rights.

There are two things going on here:
1) Your personal opinion of gays and homosexual behavior, which I feel is your right to have; but at the same time, those who think that being gay is an innate orientation from birth will call you a bigot, and you need to accept that.
2) Your attempt to take away the personal rights of others. The existence of homosexuals and the rights they seek has zero impact on your freedoms and way of life. Therefore, your vocal opposition to the rights of gays to have equal freedoms is a real problem.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

Please correct me on how what I said was false or not the truth. Or vulgar, it was even censored to begin with!!!!

So much for a freedom of speech. Because if its against gay people it is "secret" and everyone is afraid to talk about it.

But they can go off and rant and rave about gay pride. Thats prejudice


im editing the post because you found it offensive, and god forbid anyone gets offended in the united states.

Censoring out one cuss word doesn't automatically make the rest of your sentence OK and not offensive...

Here is how I feel about homosexuality, in a completely honest sense: I do not understand homosexuality because it doesn't make sense to me scientifically (i.e. two men having sex cannot reproduce), but that doesn't mean that I am against them being treated like every other so called 'normal' person. That also doesn't mean that I feel it's impossible for two men or two women to love each other and not be related. Love isn't a science, it's an emotion that we really have no control over, so I can understand how it can sometimes override the scientific urge to reproduce that all animals (even humans) have.

Just because they are different from me doesn't make them wrong. At the end of the day, gays/lesbians being together (even married) has no effect on my life at all whatsoever, so I do not care. They shouldn't be treated like less than humans though.

I say we stop trying to pretend we are God and trying to pass judgement on others. We are human and we have no right to judge. True Christians believe in treating others as we want to be treated, with no exceptions. I don't care what Bible verse you want to take out of context to 'prove' me wrong. The people who treat others like crap because they aren't the same as everyone else will hopefully find themselves wishing they were nice in another life

[CamelBiscuit]

Soon I will see a report on the news about someone getting shot over an Internet fight on BMW website.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by Templar

True Christians believe in treating others as we want to be treated, with no exceptions.

Agree with your sentiment, but I'd like to clarify that the statement above, while inclusive of Christianity, is much more ancient and universal than a single religion, and in-fact is the foundation for those who are not religious at all.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

Agree with your sentiment, but I'd like to clarify that the statement above, while inclusive of Christianity, is much more ancient and universal than a single religion, and in-fact is the foundation for those who are not religious at all.

[Jewbacca]

Wow! It still never ceases to amaze me on what an incredible job the "right" has done to brainwash their supporters to all repeat the same vitriol almost word for word.

Why do people care so much about gays being able to get married?

How does it affect my daily life in any negative way to allow them to be married?

I still have yet not heard an argument that effectively communicates this.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but to the point of forcing that opinion on others through legislation like amending the constitution to ban same sex marriage makes ZERO sense to me.

Most importantly, if you believe marriage to be a religious institution and in less government in our lives (which I guarantee everyone on the right agrees with) than why would you think it's okay to have the government not recognize a marriage that has been performed in a religious institution?

This to me is so un-American considering that this country was founded on the notion of freedom from government oppression of your personal beliefs.

This is all about personal prejudice and nothing to do with personal freedom.

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by Jewbacca

This is all about personal prejudice and nothing to do with personal freedom.

Precisely!

Originally Posted by Templar

True Christians believe in treating others as we want to be treated, with no exceptions.

Agreed! Sadly however, I see the complete opposite happening on an almost daily basis. What's that old saying? Let he without sin cast the first stone? I suppose for some it's easier to accuse others of being a sinner when in fact the accuser is the one with the problem.

It is my belief that you should be free to practice any religion you want or none at all if you so choose. I really don't understand the never ending fascination with trying to out exactly what religion President Obama practices. It's none of my damned business what religion he practices nor do I care to know. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse what Romney believes when it comes to God or religion either. We have bigger issues to tackle than to worry about our Commander in Chief's religious views.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by Jewbacca

Why do people care so much about gays being able to get married?

How does it affect my daily life in any negative way to allow them to be married?

I still have yet not heard an argument that effectively communicates this.

An older relative of mine is very anti-gay marriage, and I was asking him about this as I didnt understand the problem.

His explanation was that being married, in his mind, was like being in a special club. He actually tried to draw comparisons to being a licensed doctor (which he is NOT).

Anyway, he said that it makes him feel special knowing that he is a member of this club, because there are some restrictions to entry.
He said that if they opened it up to same sex "unions" or whatever you want to call it, then that is no different than lowering the requirement to call yourself a doctor. If they drop down entry requirements, suddenly it's not that special to be a member any more. To him, a first aid attendant should not be allowed to call themselves a doctor, just like a same sex union should not be allowed to call itself a marriage.

In his mind, same sex marriages are "inferior" to mixed-gender marriages because they are not endorsed in the bible.
He said he realizes that gay couples live together and do some things a hetero couple does, but cannot do other things a hetero couple can (conceive a child). He said hes not opposed to them living together, but calling them married "insults the title", the way a "real" doctor may be offended if you called a first aid attendant a doctor, even though by simply doing that you are not limiting what a real doctor can continue to do.

I briefly considered asking more about this, given that the gap between a first aid attendant and a doctor is HUGE, while some same sex couples I know are less dysfunctional than some hetero couple who are married, but I elected to drop it in the interest of harmony at the family gathering.

Anyway, not saying that I agree with it, nor that you should either, but it was an interesting perspective on why some folks might be opposed to the idea, which would appear to cause them no harm.

[ScotchAndCigar]

I don't understand the analogy. Becoming a doctor involves years of difficult requirements, getting a marriage license has no requirements. It'd be nice if the explanation made sense.

[Jewbacca]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

An older relative of mine is very anti-gay marriage, and I was asking him about this as I didnt understand the problem.

His explanation was that being married, in his mind, was like being in a special club. He actually tried to draw comparisons to being a licensed doctor (which he is NOT).

Anyway, he said that it makes him feel special knowing that he is a member of this club, because there are some restrictions to entry.
He said that if they opened it up to same sex "unions" or whatever you want to call it, then that is no different than lowering the requirement to call yourself a doctor. If they drop down entry requirements, suddenly it's not that special to be a member any more.

I appreciate the response, but here's the flaw with your relative's argument....

If said "club" were a religious institution like an Episcopalian Church (which, I believe does recognize same sex marriages), the rules of that "club" are different than the rules of his "club" and since that "club" is recognized as a valid "club" by our government, than that marriage should also be recognized as legal by our government.

Your relative can rest easy in "knowing" that the same sex marriage performed in another "club" outside his own "club" is "inferior" to his, because it's not the "club" he belongs to, so it "must" by inferior.

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

Please correct me on how what I said was false or not the truth. Or vulgar, it was even censored to begin with!!!!

So much for a freedom of speech. Because if its against gay people it is "secret" and everyone is afraid to talk about it.

But they can go off and rant and rave about gay pride. Thats prejudice


im editing the post because you found it offensive, and god forbid anyone gets offended in the united states.

oh lawd....you really are ignorant....this is a private website...the owner is free to censor anyone for any reason...the first amendment does not apply here...if you don't like it...move on...

[OldArmy]

-Why is the state in the business of sanctioning "marriage" anyway?
-Civil unions should be the purview of the state (license you for receipt of all the goodies). Show up, pay your tax/fee, and voila, you are "unionized".
-Marriage should be in the domain of your church. Whatever makes you and yours happy.
-Get the government out of this business of trying to make moral judgements.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

-Why is the state in the business of sanctioning "marriage" anyway?
-Civil unions should be the purview of the state (license you for receipt of all the goodies). Show up, pay your tax/fee, and voila, you are "unionized".
-Marriage should be in the domain of your church. Whatever makes you and yours happy.
-Get the government out of this business of trying to make moral judgements.

Can your church enable you to file joint/married with the IRS?
Can it make you a social security benefactor?

[JesterEXW]

I personally feel that the Mormon religion makes many grandiose claims that cannot be accepted by any rational minded person that thinks critically. To be fair though, so does every other religion I have encountered. So for those of you that feel they are crazy let's take this into account: Christianity believes in a guy that not only watches what you do but also what you think. He cares about the position you have sex in and whether or not you talk to him enough. He also sent his son to Earth to save us all from a plan of his devising (since he is omnipotent and omniscient) and this son was born of a virgin, walked on water, cured the blind and even rose from the dead. None of these claims are ridiculous though, right? The only thing that separates insanity from religion is the popularity of the idea; unfortunately as an idea grows in popularity it does not also grow in truth.

The point I am getting at is this: I too think Mormons have insane beliefs, but odds are that a lot of people throwing stones here have equally insane ideas that they cling on to which have little to no evidence supporting them. To say it's crazy that they think the Garden of Eden was in the US and then you turn around go talk to an imaginary man floating in the sky (pray) seems a bit hypocritical.

[Jewbacca]

^^^ +1

[Fox128i]

^^^ +2

[HifiSyd]

Originally Posted by JesterEXW

I personally feel that the Mormon religion makes many grandiose claims that cannot be accepted by any rational minded person that thinks critically. To be fair though, so does every other religion I have encountered. So for those of you that feel they are crazy let's take this into account: Christianity believes in a guy that not only watches what you do but also what you think. He cares about the position you have sex in and whether or not you talk to him enough. He also sent his son to Earth to save us all from a plan of his devising (since he is omnipotent and omniscient) and this son was born of a virgin, walked on water, cured the blind and even rose from the dead. None of these claims are ridiculous though, right? The only thing that separates insanity from religion is the popularity of the idea; unfortunately as an idea grows in popularity it does not also grow in truth.

The point I am getting at is this: I too think Mormons have insane beliefs, but odds are that a lot of people throwing stones here have equally insane ideas that they cling on to which have little to no evidence supporting them. To say it's crazy that they think the Garden of Eden was in the US and then you turn around go talk to an imaginary man floating in the sky (pray) seems a bit hypocritical.

Could not have said it better myself.

[JesterEXW]

Glad it didn't come across as too dickish then. I was trying to express the hypocrisy involved in mocking others beliefs when many throwing stones have ideas that are equally irrational. I wasn't trying to bash Christianity specifically, just happened to be an easy (and likely most pertinent) example for people on here to relate to. Many of us, myself included at times forget how societal norms can effect our world view and skew our outlook. It's good to step back and look at the irony of our of beliefs when compared to others and have a reality check.

[///Mandy]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

Mormons are funny.

Who/what are mormons?

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by JesterEXW

Glad it didn't come across as too dickish then. I was trying to express the hypocrisy involved in mocking others beliefs when many throwing stones have ideas that are equally irrational. I wasn't trying to bash Christianity specifically, just happened to be an easy (and likely most pertinent) example for people on here to relate to. Many of us, myself included at times forget how societal norms can effect our world view and skew our outlook. It's good to step back and look at the irony of our of beliefs when compared to others and have a reality check.

No, I personally don't think you were. You summed up exactly what I was thinking. You did a right good job of it too, IMHO.

[JesterEXW]

Much appreciated, I was waiting for some serious flames. Lol