Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6
That's what I thought too, Kratos even has dyno plots of their KRAS55Bi hitting 655whp on pump, but 790? It just doesn't jive.
Couple that with the fact that he mentions that the injectors are the bottleneck and not the HPFP's, and it goes against all the information we've received from tuners like CaryTheLabelGuy and F80Paul .
I can't be sure it was actually Halim replying from the HCP account obviously, but it's damn confusing.
|
Although we are a manufacturer of turbo systems and typically prefer to discuss topics related directly to that segment of the market, we also feel compelled to share our experiences and results with the community as it provides insight for those seeking similar performance goals. Coupled with the discrepancies in performance of our KRAS55Bi's on pump gas being discussed in this thread with Halim's car, we feel we should address some concerns and clarify some misconceptions. Our apologies in advance for this lengthy post, but there is quite a bit of information to discuss regarding the topic at hand.
It is true that our KRAS55Bi's did produce 655whp on 93 octane pump fuel without PI on a stock engine approximately 2 years ago. Many of our customers have produced similar results and more over the years without PI on 93 octane pump fuel depending on conditions. Many of you also know that we produced 1163whp almost 2 years ago as well on a built engine with PI and Ignite Red fuel. However, this was no easy task and was extremely inconsistent when it came to the fueling side of things as current PI offerings just don't have the processing speeds to keep up with fuel demands during extreme power transitions as HPFP's begin crashing at those power levels. Add to the fact that high HPFP target pressures are the direct cause of DI injector failure. This is contrary to the belief that DI injector failure on S55's is caused by high injector duty cycle or ethanol based fuels. Simply put, DI injectors on the S55 platform were never designed to operate at such high pressure for prolonged periods of time which result in lockup and failures. Ethanol based fueling requirements are the reason why tuners have to request such high fuel pressure targets. Although, E85 fuel absorbs moisture and can be corrosive in nature it is not the cause of S55 DI injector failure as the DI injectors are internally steel bodied. (We know all this information to be true based on our data which was also confirmed through our conversations with an Engineer contact of ours from Bosch's Motorsport Division.)
As our engineers and Halim have been working closely together over the many years of tuning and testing our turbo systems it became clearly evident that, although HPFP's were a major issue at extreme HP levels, the factory DI injectors were the main limiting factor well before reaching the limitations of the HPFP's. The limitations of HPFP's became even more evident as we began beta testing our newly developed KRAS55EVO's this past year which were designed as a larger and higher flowing rotor group (In an effort to stay on topic we'll provide more detailed info on these in another press release thread.) As turbos were installed and we began testing at higher boost levels, it was clear there was no way possible that our KRAS55EVO's could be run at full tilt with stock HPFP's and stock DI injectors. Regardless of how much additional duty cycle was added to PI, the controller's processing speed was just too slow to compensate for the rate of demand required even though we still had plenty of PI injector duty cycle left to work with. A dyno of this testing is attached as reference to show how much our KRAS55EVO's had to be turned down just to get a clean pull. At 4700rpm with a more aggressive boost ramp we ran into major issues with HPFP's crashing producing 850whp/942wtq. The car then had to be dialed down to stabilize HPFP pressures just to get a clean pass. This resulted in a power and torque loss of approximately 152whp/169wtq by 4700rpm. Had there been enough fuel to do a clean pull at full tilt on our KRAS55EVO's, we're confident the results would've easily surpassed the previous max output figures of our KRAS55Bi's based on their increased flow capabilities and adiabatic efficiency.
So, it is true that Halim did produce the results he stated on pump gas with our KRAS55Bi's on stock HPFP's and no PI with attenuated boost down low (Dyno graph on his IG).
Even though we know for certain that these injectors supply more than enough fuel for maximum pump gas results, they will still fall short on the straight E85 side with built engine when coupled with our KRAS55Bi's or KRAS55EVO's for maximum output. Halim has been doing the pump gas testing with several different larger DI injectors options and stock HPFP's for the past year while we have been working on the E85 testing with upgraded DI injectors as well as testing for Dorch Engineering with their HPFP solutions. All we can say is that the results have been nothing short of amazing! Thus far, we have been able to run straight Ignite Red fuel (88% as tested) up to 750whp with PI disconnected and approximately 1000psi less pressure on the high side. At this power level we still have quite a bit of fuel left on the table and are incrementally working on turning power up along with tuning for drivability, cold start, hot start, etc. which is very time consuming with the addition if these higher flowing fueling components on high ethanol content race fuels such as Ignite Red. However, we do understand that even with these fueling upgrades installed, there is no way to achieve maximum output on our KRAS55EVO's on Ignite Red without PI. The biggest advantage though is that the fuel system will no longer rely so heavily on the PI and be able to perform with much lower and more stable fuel pressures. In turn, no more worrying about DI injector failure or lockup at WOT while PI is still spraying resulting in a lean condition and most likely engine failure.
Out of respect for the agreements we have with Halim@HCP and Dorch Engineering, our intention was not to release any of this information until our press release for our KRAS55EVO's. However, we all felt it was time to at least provide some data since so many are in the dark regarding this topic. In the meanwhile, we're more than happy to provide as much information as Dorch and HCP are willing to release at the moment. We would prefer to do so on DM or email basis though as our intention is not to highjack a thread intended to discuss another vendor's products or results.