[Transfer]

A funny thing happened a month ago. My wife said she wanted to do an HPDE for the first time ever.

So this friday we are both hitting the track for performance driver training, her in our M340i xDrive and me in the X3MC. I've done this course before and have about 12 track days under my belt in an E90 M3 but haven't been on track since 2013. The class is great with first half of day "classroom" instruction and running drills and second half slowly winding up on track to potential solo driving by end of day. I'm excited to throw the track at the big rig and learn how it handles at the limits, but will not be tracking it more than this one time.

Any suggestions for target tire pressures or other things to think about with setup? I'm on PS4S 265/295 fwiw and weather will be dry at about 75F. This day won't be demanding enough to worry about swapping pads or fluids.

[4151zero]

start your tires cold at much lower than 32-35 psi and aim for that psi after you come off the track

Thats what saves me from over cooking michelin pss and ps4s when I arrived and drived

they will get chunky and greasy, letting you know theyre done for that session

[MRichmond]

Originally Posted by Transfer

A funny thing happened a month ago. My wife said she wanted to do an HPDE for the first time ever.

So this friday we are both hitting the track for performance driver training, her in our M340i xDrive and me in the X3MC. I've done this course before and have about 12 track days under my belt in an E90 M3 but haven't been on track since 2013. The class is great with first half of day "classroom" instruction and running drills and second half slowly winding up on track to potential solo driving by end of day. I'm excited to throw the track at the big rig and learn how it handles at the limits, but will not be tracking it more than this one time.

Any suggestions for target tire pressures or other things to think about with setup? I'm on PS4S 265/295 fwiw and weather will be dry at about 75F. This day won't be demanding enough to worry about swapping pads or fluids.

You can use the stock pads but stock brake fluid creates a significant risk because stock brake fluid often will overheat, especially in a heavier vehicle.

For tire pressures, aim for 37-38 hot. Where to start depends on how aggressively you will drive and the nature of the track. I would start around 29 front and 31 rear. Measure the pressures immediately after coming off the track at the end of each session -- i.e., before even taking the helmet off. Bleed each tire down to the target hot pressure if it is above that target.

Enjoy and be safe.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by MRichmond

You can use the stock pads but stock brake fluid creates a significant risk because stock brake fluid often will overheat, especially in a heavier vehicle.

For tire pressures, aim for 37-38 hot. Where to start depends on how aggressively you will drive and the nature of the track. I would start around 29 front and 31 rear. Measure the pressures immediately after coming off the track at the end of each session -- i.e., before even taking the helmet off. Bleed each tire down to the target hot pressure if it is above that target.

Enjoy and be safe.

It's funny though the BMW recommended pressures for >100mph are something like 40 front 46 rear. I won't be letting them go that high but wonder if a typical 37-38 is too low. I'll probably shoot for like 38/40 hot. I also won't be driving the crap out of it because I don't want to trash my tires. This is very much a casual day to me.

[evo-mike]

You can get some used stock, close to full tread 265 contis on eBay for like $65/tire. Put those on and thrash em

[MRichmond]

Originally Posted by Transfer

It's funny though the BMW recommended pressures for >100mph are something like 40 front 46 rear. I won't be letting them go that high but wonder if a typical 37-38 is too low. I'll probably shoot for like 38/40 hot. I also won't be driving the crap out of it because I don't want to trash my tires. This is very much a casual day to me.

That recommendation applies to autobahn-style driving with relatively little lateral forces. On track, it is the turns that cause tire pressures to rise because of the heat that the lateral forces generate. Different tires, cars and suspension settings (not to mention driving styles and personal preferences) all make differences in what the ideal hot pressure is. Generally, though, across a wide range of cars (both street and race) and tires, I found that the grip becomes markedly worse once hot pressures reach 40.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by MRichmond

That recommendation applies to autobahn-style driving with relatively little lateral forces. On track, it is the turns that cause tire pressures to rise because of the heat that the lateral forces generate. Different tires, cars and suspension settings (not to mention driving styles and personal preferences) all make differences in what the ideal hot pressure is. Generally, though, across a wide range of cars (both street and race) and tires, I found that the grip becomes markedly worse once hot pressures reach 40.

There is also heat transfer from your brake rotors to the wheels and tires, especially on the front wheels.

[Transfer]

Successful day out! This X3MC is a FREAK on the track! Wtf? I knew it would do ok but it performed well above my expectations. I have a couple years of lapping under my belt in E92 M3 through 2013 and the X3M handled easily as good if not better. Only downside was heavy weight when threshold braking for corner from 130 mph followed by downhill 100mph braking. I ended up capping max speed at 125 because I didn't want to trash my brakes and tires too much but certainly it could do 140-145 into that braking zone if i didn't care so much about the consumables.

This day was to do wife's first ever HPDE/track day so I was intending to half ass it but ended up flogging my rig pretty good. Tire (PS4S) and brake wear were reasonable and not destroyed in any way after half a day of drills followed by 3 rapid 20 min sessions on track. Tire pic is end of day. I'm not going to make a habit of this but it proved to me that the X3M is astonishingly capable on track.

[MaxGainz]

Wow nice feedback! Tire rollover seems pretty good as well, what where your hot pressure? If you even took any haha

[4151zero]

those tires look nearly new! I'm also curious about what PSI did you run?

I had no doubts this f97 would be capable on and off the track.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by MaxGainz

Wow nice feedback! Tire rollover seems pretty good as well, what where your hot pressure? If you even took any haha

Started 36/38 (street pressure) quickly went to 39/41, bled down to 34/36, and ended about 36/38 hot. Tire wear represents about 60 min hard running time so not a full day.

I agree about the lack of rollover. I thought my shoulders would be shredded but they're totally fine.

[Max Well]

From: https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1742866

Originally Posted by Transfer

... Honestly though it's such an awesome rig that there is a decent chance I would buy it out at lease end. I've had a couple M3s and always sell them because of their lack of functionality in my life. The X3M gives me an M car that is very similar to M3 but with the utility and AWD I need. ... I think it's a fantastic compromise vehicle just as long as you're not expecting a track car ...

Originally Posted by Max Well

Thanks for sharing, Transfer . Given the performance and handling characteristics of the F97, esp if in Comp form (or tuned) and without the moonroof and spare, I wouldn't agree it's a 'compromise vehicle' though... I understand your intent by writing that, and those who have dedicated small ... track cars will agree with you, but if an experienced Driver has a track nearby, and has the extra funds for tires, brakes, and fluids, I have no doubt he/she won't be an embarrassment to the F97 ranks and will have a lot of fun with this vehicle...

Originally Posted by Transfer

Sorry I guess I didn't mean to say you *couldn't* take it to the track but my bias is why *would* you want to take it to the track. I agree, it is capable of track days and would be a surprising foe to some.

From current thread [ https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1761331 ]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Successful day out! This X3MC is a FREAK on the track! Wtf? I knew it would do ok but it performed well above my expectations. I have a couple years of lapping under my belt in E92 M3 through 2013 and the X3M handled easily as good if not better. Only downside was heavy weight when threshold braking for corner from 130 mph followed by downhill 100mph braking. I ended up capping max speed at 125 because I didn't want to trash my brakes and tires too much but certainly it could do 140-145 into that braking zone if i didn't care so much about the consumables.

... I'm not going to make a habit of this but it proved to me that the X3M is astonishingly capable on track.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by Max Well

From: https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1742866

From current thread [ https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1761331 ]

Yup I'll own it. Well quoted!

[4151zero]

no camber plates needed, from that day and conditions etc.

[MRichmond]

Glad you had a fun day. The track bug is much more contagious than COVID (or almost anything else, for that matter)!

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by MRichmond

Glad you had a fun day. The track bug is much more contagious than COVID (or almost anything else, for that matter)!

For sure. Just wish it wasn't such an expensive hobby and risk of binning the car without insurance on track. I'm happy enjoying my car on the street but very nice to know what it can do and feel how it handles the limits. Maybe when our M340i lease is up in a couple years I'll pick something that is M capable but cheaper to run on the track.

Here's another better tire photo for those interested. I'm not sure if I'm more impressed with tire or car leading to this good looking wear. Probably both. I certainly did not hold back on very hard limit cornering.

[MaxGainz]

Honestly im impressed the ps4s wore so great. Rollover is right where it should

[Transfer]

I should also mention that on a 77F day engine temps stayed just below 250F.

[MRichmond]

Originally Posted by Transfer

For sure. Just wish it wasn't such an expensive hobby and risk of binning the car without insurance on track. I'm happy enjoying my car on the street but very nice to know what it can do and feel how it handles the limits. Maybe when our M340i lease is up in a couple years I'll pick something that is M capable but cheaper to run on the track.

This may be way deeper than you would contemplate, but if you intend to track regularly, I strongly urge you to at least consider a track-dedicated car with the proper safety gear that cannot be used in a street car (roll cage, harnesses, fire suppression, etc.). That also allows you to minimize weight, maximize handling and performance, and have a platform allowing for a much higher ceiling of driving skill advancement. (And increases the chances of you devoting an even larger part of your disposable income to this by getting into wheel-to-wheel racing. But that's another post . . .)

[MRichmond]

Go to the 2:50 mark. This guy and his passenger were extremely lucky.

[ThumperMCS]

Originally Posted by MRichmond

Go to the 2:50 mark. This guy and his passenger were extremely lucky.

Also the reason why I refuse to ride with anyone in their street car at a track day