[thatgarrett]

I scroll through local dealers inventory when I get bored, and saw this one pop up today- not too far off from an F3X 35i/40i with similar miles in cost. If this one was up when I was shopping, I might have been persuaded over an F30, anyone else intrigued by it, or would that have been asking for trouble?

https://www.bmwoffairfax.com/used/BM...a5acf429cf.htm

[Skyhigh]

Not sure what answer you are looking for.... this is a different model. It's larger, it's older (in terms of design) and it's heavier. Comparing apples with bananas is never easy...

My boss has that model as a 650i... Engine aside, I can't say I like it much. The exterior design of the rear is very sexy, the design of the front is hideous. There is definitely more luxury inside, but the design is heavily outdated.

I'd never go for it but it depends on what you are looking for and what you like.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by thatgarrett

I scroll through local dealers inventory when I get bored, and saw this one pop up today- not too far off from an F3X 35i/40i with similar miles in cost. If this one was up when I was shopping, I might have been persuaded over an F30, anyone else intrigued by it, or would that have been asking for trouble?

https://www.bmwoffairfax.com/used/BM...a5acf429cf.htm

I like big sixes and I cannot lie.

It's a big car. Drives big, feels big, lots of interior room, big-ass trunk. Everything will be expensive on it to maintain (cross reference basic parts from an E90 or F30 on FCP for example). Drivetrain is a N55 connected to a ZF8 so a known quality.

There isn't much of an online community compared to here. Compare the web traffic and definitely different type of conversations. Price is a bit high for that mileage IMO, but it's from a dealer so you presume they went over it well (Ron Howard voice: They didn't). Don't get X Drive if you don't need it (maintenance and MPG penalty). M Sport package is mandatory for cosmetics.

Here's a much better example IMO that I was seriously looking at: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...664908724.html

[thatgarrett]

StradaRedlands I especially appreciate the half tank of gas the seller is throwing in there haha. But yes that is a nicer one for sure- I noticed the same thing about the online community, I cross shopped a few other models when I was looking for a newer car and the vibe and sheer volume of information in the F3X is second to none. I have always really liked the look of those sixers, even the older Bangle era ones I was always partial to, even though I think the F3X is better in almost every way over the long run. But I’d be lying if I wasn’t tempted by one like that. I was kind of close to getting an F10 after having a 5er before but liked the styling and the feel of the F3X forums a bit more.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by thatgarrett

StradaRedlands I especially appreciate the half tank of gas the seller is throwing in there haha. But yes that is a nicer one for sure- I noticed the same thing about the online community, I cross shopped a few other models when I was looking for a newer car and the vibe and sheer volume of information in the F3X is second to none. I have always really liked the look of those sixers, even the older Bangle era ones I was always partial to, even though I think the F3X is better in almost every way over the long run. But I’d be lying if I wasn’t tempted by one like that. I was kind of close to getting an F10 after having a 5er before but liked the styling and the feel of the F3X forums a bit more.

Fives and sixes just have a presence to them that threes and fours don't. Proportions look better and interiors are just nicer as well. Carpet is plusher, dash is softer, etc. I was really close to getting a F10 535i with a MT recently, but I walked it back from that edge!

[djacinto]

I’ve been having a hard time wrestling with this, if you go in my post history I actually went to both the 6er and here to post, to get both biased sides of the coin.

I’m with you in that I love looking at all bmw’s, I’m a coupe guy through and through. I’ve got my f32 and e82 1 series and they’re perfect.

With that being said, I actually would go for the gc only in the 6 because the backseats are legitimately useless in the coupe for the 6. Don’t get me wrong, the coupe looks absolutely elegant, but in order to get that look and space in the front, it had to be taken from somewhere.

However, looks aside my main concerns are driving feel, overall luxury and features, and almost most importantly, reliability. In my continual search, I constantly look at 15-19 6’s, both n55’s and n63’s and in both coupe and gran coupe form. For the 4’s I solely look at b58, coupes, 18-20’s for lci’s.

So, with that criteria, what is the typical car look like? Well, for 35-40g’s you’re looking at a base trim 440 with low miles but usually not many features outside of what comes standard. Usually HK, blind spot and hud are the most common I see. For that 40-42 you’ll be seeing more m sports, the full safety features and very rarely, ones with adaptive cruise.

At the same time, you can find a 640, same price range with low-mid miles with HK, ventilated and massage seats, hud and full leather, 90% of the time. With a bit more searching you’ll find adaptive cruise much more common along with the much better bang and olufson sound system.

However, here is my personal debacle. While yes, the 6 is a better car in the sense of bmw’s lineup, after having driving both the coupe and gran coupe, I just don’t know if I can justify all that extra weight and sacrifice the driving experience I get in my 4er. On top of that, you’re getting so much more bang for the buck at the same price if you can get a 6 for 40k. Having all the features listed before, on a car that bmw intentionally positioned higher, is a bargain, but again, maintenance is a concern

I love it so much and that’s why I struggle with this decision of the 440 since it’s the same platform, just a new engine, or do I go 6er route with much more technology and features, finish is leagues ahead, but be stuck with the aging n55, or the (technically) less reliable n63tu, and always be checking my wallet when I hear a sound on the car.


The 6 is an amazing machine. The layout inside is gorgeous the leather wrapped dash and nappa seats are wonderful, and it feels like a true gentleman’s cruiser, but it’s also over 500-800 pounds heavier depending on the trim you go for. That size increase along with the weight truly impacted the dynamics of the vehicle and I could immediately tell. I’m no Ayrton Senna, but I am sensitive to how the chassis of a car feels and the flexing of the body. That feeling going around corners is phenomenal in my 4 and especially in the 1. I don’t expect the 6 to corner like those but when you’re pushing the high 4k lbs when loaded, it feels that way and It’s just not the time for me to get one… yet.

So with all that being said, if your commute is even 15 miles, I’d say go for it. Hell I’d do it if it was short too, but I live in the city and it’s just impossible to park, it’s a gas guzzler, and I’m sure my insurance rates would be through the roof. But man do I still want one. Driving that car made me sad to think about how the new bmw lineup is so disappointing in honoring its legacy. The 6 is a beast both in size and in elegance and It’s certainly an upgrade over the 4, just know what you lose out on too when considering it!

Hope that helps

[thatgarrett]

djacinto presence is a good way to put that! I’ve always flip flopped between leaning more into the sport or luxury side of BMW, I do think the modern 5er isn’t special seeming enough for the sacrifice in sportiness but something like a 6, 7, or 8 might be. I have a commute 5 days a week that is mostly back country roads for a few miles, but one day a week that is 4-5 hours of interstate, which again makes me flip flop between them. My 335i even with the sport suspension is still a fantastic highway cruiser and quite comfortable, but I’m a sucker for the extra fit and finish touches of the higher up models, and the grass always could seem a little greener…

[Skyhigh]

thatgarrett I am having hard time following up on what you call sporty. BMW have a clear division between sport-oriented models (even-numbered models) and family/business commuters (odd-numbered models).
With clearly the 1 being the exception as it is a category on its own, depending on the required application. The 6 series is (was) without a doubt a sporty coupe which is also equipped with enough luxury to be a high-end model. Now substituted by the 8 Series, which is the only other BMW model I would consider for myself.

I just have a hard time when people talk about a "sporty" 5 Series. With the right engine, it can be a fast family wagon, sure. But not more. Not even an M badge makes it a sporty car. Just my view.

[thatgarrett]

Skyhigh I think the term sporty is hard to define, because it can mean different things to different people. The last 5er I had extensive experience with was an e39, which many did praise as the one of the best sport sedans of the time, and I would agree. I drove an e36 m3 a bit and that was still quite sporty obviously, but in the raw sense. My F30 is sporty in a different way, very solid but still tossable, also faster than the other two BMW’s above. My old Impreza, with a 5 speed, sport suspension, was slower than any of those but really raw and gave a different kind of sporty feel, especially on a gravel road or Forest service road. From a performance and feel standpoint, a 2er is probably the most sporty car BMW sells, then the 3/4. I think of an old distinction I heard from an older forum I was on- “the 3 is a luxurious sports car, the 5 is a sporty luxury car, and the 7 is a fast luxury car.” I think that still can hold true, but it’s all about the spec and options now, and I don’t think it ever take a m8/m5 over a m3/m2 for example.

[Skyhigh]

Clearly very different interpretations. I distinguish sport models from engine performance.
And so does BMW and also Audi. Just think about it - apart from BMW 1 and Audi A3, which are the hatchback category and can be seen as anything (but luxurious), the rest follow a very predetermined pattern:

BMW: 2, 4, 6, 8 / Audi A5, A7 - Coupes, spell on sporty design, aerodynamics, even weight distribution, road performance. The Impreza is also in that category

BMW: 3, 5, 7 / Audi A4, A6, A8 - practical family/business sedans/wagons, with spell on room, access and/or value for money

And although each of the first group is offered with some budget engine options too, you will also notice that the least powerful / most budget options are only offered within the second group. Examples: You will never see a 416d or 416i as you would in a 3 Series and you will never see 830i as in a 7-series.

So with that in mind, there are sporty cars and fast cars. The ultimate one being a fast, sporty car. Luxury comes in addition - there are luxurious sporty cars and non-luxurious sporty cars. Without any intent to offend you - how and why one would call a 3 Series a "luxurious sports car" is beyond me, as it is neither, in my humble opinion. From the BMW models, the first one that somewhat qualifies for that definition is exactly the 6 Series discussed above. And the flagman being clearly the 8 series.

A 3 series can be fast. A 5 series can be fast and somewhat luxurious. A 7 is generally luxurious and could be somewhat fast (as weight and aerodynamics become a serious issue). But neither of them is a sporty vehicle per design. Just my 2 cents

It is very important to distinguish not just engine performance as such, but "fast" from sporty...!
I took a ride with this Chinese creature last weekend. It does 0-100 in 4.4 seconds!
Would you call it a sports car because of that? Does it look like one? If anything it is luxurious. For a rice-car.

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by thatgarrett

djacinto presence is a good way to put that! I’ve always flip flopped between leaning more into the sport or luxury side of BMW, I do think the modern 5er isn’t special seeming enough for the sacrifice in sportiness but something like a 6, 7, or 8 might be. I have a commute 5 days a week that is mostly back country roads for a few miles, but one day a week that is 4-5 hours of interstate, which again makes me flip flop between them. My 335i even with the sport suspension is still a fantastic highway cruiser and quite comfortable, but I’m a sucker for the extra fit and finish touches of the higher up models, and the grass always could seem a little greener…

I think in your case the 6 is definitely worth considering then. The sound insulation alone is great and the alcantara headliner makes every day seem like an occasion. Like i mentioned, the interior feels almost first class with its interior amenities and while the tech itself is dated, there are certainly ways around that. The main thing is you’re in a car that you’re happy with and you enjoy.

You’d get that with any bmw, and to throw a monkey in the wrench, I’ve even been looking at m760’s cause I’m a sucker for v12’s. You can get a pre facelift g12 for around 50-60k, under 35k miles with absolutely everything on them. They’re insane bang for buck but man the maintenance is gonna kill you for real.

I just picked up an e38 750 a few weeks ago and it’s already giving me issues (granted I did them to myself, but who still has to fix them!)

I wouldn’t actually throw the 7 into consideration unless you genuinely have a good salary, or have enough F*** you money to not care. They’re absolutely insane though! Heated, cooled and massaging seats all around, back seat entertainment, all the safety features you could need, bowers and Wilkes, adaptive cruise, adaptive suspension, peasant blockers, and best of all, 600hp on demand with a 0-60 that feels like a jet taking off.

But back to your whole commute, as I mentioned the 6 would certainly make your driving more comfortable. The next consideration is reliability and what engine to choose. N55 is more reliable through and through, but with only 300ish hp on a car that weighs 500+ lbs more than an equivalent 435 or even 335, you lose out on that feeling of speed a touch.

As for the 650, you’re getting much more power ovvisouly but I watched a few videos on a tuned 650 racing against a tuned 440 and surprisingly, they were quite evenly matched! The n63tu has had multiple iterations and improvements. The one in current bmw’s is actually quite reliable as that’s the 3rd technical update as far as I’m aware. You’ll want to be looking at 15+ 6 series since that’s the lci, and they’ll all have the n63tu

Bmw doesn’t have the greatest track record for reliable v8’s. Amazing sounding and technological marvels? Absolutely, like you mentioned the e39 m5 is an absolute beast and the e90 s65 v8 sounds insane at redline too! But those were also naturally aspirated and both have issues with rod bearings and other things.

With all that being said… just do it!

[toxik]

Originally Posted by djacinto

I think in your case the 6 is definitely worth considering then. The sound insulation alone is great and the alcantara headliner makes every day seem like an occasion. Like i mentioned, the interior feels almost first class with its interior amenities and while the tech itself is dated, there are certainly ways around that. The main thing is you’re in a car that you’re happy with and you enjoy.

You’d get that with any bmw, and to throw a monkey in the wrench, I’ve even been looking at m760’s cause I’m a sucker for v12’s. You can get a pre facelift g12 for around 50-60k, under 35k miles with absolutely everything on them. They’re insane bang for buck but man the maintenance is gonna kill you for real.

I just picked up an e38 750 a few weeks ago and it’s already giving me issues (granted I did them to myself, but who still has to fix them!)

I wouldn’t actually throw the 7 into consideration unless you genuinely have a good salary, or have enough F*** you money to not care. They’re absolutely insane though! Heated, cooled and massaging seats all around, back seat entertainment, all the safety features you could need, bowers and Wilkes, adaptive cruise, adaptive suspension, peasant blockers, and best of all, 600hp on demand with a 0-60 that feels like a jet taking off.

But back to your whole commute, as I mentioned the 6 would certainly make your driving more comfortable. The next consideration is reliability and what engine to choose. N55 is more reliable through and through, but with only 300ish hp on a car that weighs 500+ lbs more than an equivalent 435 or even 335, you lose out on that feeling of speed a touch.

As for the 650, you’re getting much more power ovvisouly but I watched a few videos on a tuned 650 racing against a tuned 440 and surprisingly, they were quite evenly matched! The n63tu has had multiple iterations and improvements. The one in current bmw’s is actually quite reliable as that’s the 3rd technical update as far as I’m aware. You’ll want to be looking at 15+ 6 series since that’s the lci, and they’ll all have the n63tu

Bmw doesn’t have the greatest track record for reliable v8’s. Amazing sounding and technological marvels? Absolutely, like you mentioned the e39 m5 is an absolute beast and the e90 s65 v8 sounds insane at redline too! But those were also naturally aspirated and both have issues with rod bearings and other things.

With all that being said… just do it!

any pics of the new car?

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by toxik

any pics of the new car?

Ha ha absolutely!

[thatgarrett]

djacinto now that is clean, always loved the m parallels on that style, with that classic green too. I see why you fell for it!

[djacinto]

Originally Posted by thatgarrett

djacinto now that is clean, always loved the m parallels on that style, with that classic green too. I see why you fell for it!

Even parked it next to the g12 7 series for you!
Yeah I’ve been looking for one for just about 6 years. Found this one in Rhode Island, and she’s a touch rusty being north for most of her life but I got it as a restoration project. I got it for a grest price and I plan on mechanically restoring it over a few years, sell it and then get a better example. This one is mainly to learn the platform, make mistakes and have fun. And I’m doing all that so far! I actually post a lot on the bimmerforums if you want to follow the project there! My username is the same

[thatgarrett]

Skyhigh I’d agree with that reasoning! I think part of the different perception is how BMW limits the models and the “base-ness” of their base models in the states in a way they don’t in Europe, but I’d agree that is how they are looking to present the different models overall.

I also definitely don’t think that a 1-4 series could compete in terms of true luxury, but compared to the likes of WRX’s, BRZ/FRS, Miata, GR Corolla, and Civic SI/R, a 3/4 series could be called luxurious, so I guess part of it is the perspective and market you are looking from at a BMW. That being said, even the late 90s and early to mid 00s luxury cars are lacking on features and comforts compared to what is being offered in some more vanilla models, build quality and materials notwithstanding

[thatgarrett]

djacinto hey those were my old stomping groups too, I haven’t logged on in many years but I’ll have to give it a look, I have a soft spot for that era of BMW, definitely took a lot of parts from e38s for upgrading my e39 back in the day

[djacinto]

thatgarrett Here is a 640 that I've been looking at for a few days. It's a great specc'ed 640 in black on red, which the red is quite rare

Has ventilated seats, adaptive cruise, digital gauge cluster and all the safety features. No B&O but HK is pretty decent still. Looks like history is pretty damn clean too at only 2 owners, both in florida, at only 26k miles this is a great buy!

An identical 440 I found, xdrive, 6wb cluster, is basically fully loaded outside of icon headlights and acc, has 10k less miles too! So again, it's pick your poison!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by thatgarrett

I scroll through local dealers inventory when I get bored, and saw this one pop up today- not too far off from an F3X 35i/40i with similar miles in cost. If this one was up when I was shopping, I might have been persuaded over an F30, anyone else intrigued by it, or would that have been asking for trouble?

https://www.bmwoffairfax.com/used/BM...a5acf429cf.htm

It’s unlikely I would ever buy a 6er, but I’m a pretty big fan of the F12/13. It’s just a beautiful design inside and out. Of the three cars posted here I’d be much more inclined to the San Francisco Craigslist car. I’d choose the 2018, I don’t do black for any reason.

[intl440]

Personally the 6 series coupe is my favourite BMW design in the past several years. When I was shopping for a car the 640i was on my list.

I ultimately decided against it as it was expensive for older technology and I really wanted a B58 powered coupe and ended up with a 440i.

Can’t go wrong though, it depends on what driving experience you’re going for and what you plan to do with the car.

Stock for stock, you might end up enjoying the 640i more for how much it comes with from the factory. If you plan to modify or DIY things, a smaller BMW coupe/sedan might fit your needs better.