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      02-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #133
ideliver
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Why is there such a pressing need to cut the social security tax by 2%. Why not just cut the federal income tax by 2%

2% is 2%, right?
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      02-15-2012, 12:41 PM   #134
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So after reading the statements here, what it sounds like, is that the conservative policy is let's tax everyone less and that will bring in the most money to the economy. Currently we are at a historic low on taxation, so how's this idea of low taxes = great economy working for us right now?
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      02-15-2012, 01:28 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by xbook View Post
One wonders how the hell people were able to make money in the 1990s. What with all them high taxes that the government was trying to kill business with. Those must have been terrible years, I bet nobody was making any money then because of those horrible 35% taxes they had to pay. Ohh boo hoo...
They were able to prosper because the economy was not quite as global. They could charge more for their widgets to compensate, and consumers would pay it because they had no other choice. Even tho the tax rate was higher, the amount of absolute dollars left was also higher due to better revenues. And its absolute dollars that pays for the new car and the wifes pedicure. Then as more stuff got offshored, and your competitor made a widget for less than 1/2 what you paid to produce it, the end consumer had the choice to pay less. Guess what, they did pay less. When was the last Wal-Mart you heard shutting down?

The bar has been irreversibly dropped. There's no putting that genie back in the bottle, unless you wipe China and India off the face of the earth, or stop all trade with them. It sucks, but it is what it is. Until you can fix THAT, you cant pretend it's not happening. If Steve Wynn is sitting on 100 million to invest, and you are gonna tax him more, where do u think he will spend that money? Casino upgrades in Vegas, or Macau?
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      02-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
So after reading the statements here, what it sounds like, is that the conservative policy is let's tax everyone less and that will bring in the most money to the economy. Currently we are at a historic low on taxation, so how's this idea of low taxes = great economy working for us right now?
Companies are behaving exactly how a logical analyst would expect them to behave, considering the incentives the current tax system creates.

Dont crank up their personal tax rates, or corporate tax rates, instead crank up the taxes on imports of goods and services. Apple wants to keep manufacturing their iPads in China where the conditions are so bad the workers are killing themselves? Sure, go ahead. By the way, the import fees will now raise the cost of an iPad to $1500. Or, you could make them here, and still end up with a $1500 iPad, but lower unemployment. Bottom line: there is NO WAY to fix the current situation as long as people insist on a $600 iPad, and are willing to support whatever it takes to keep it that cheap.

Google it and see what the inflation-adjusted price of an RCA TV was back in the 60's when the TV was made here, considering the average wage at the time. You'll crap yourselves. And yet, people still bought TV's, life didnt end, and unemployment was lower, and tax rates were higher.
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      02-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
So after reading the statements here, what it sounds like, is that the conservative policy is let's tax everyone less and that will bring in the most money to the economy. Currently we are at a historic low on taxation, so how's this idea of low taxes = great economy working for us right now?
Then why does President Obama want to "lower taxes on the middle class?" and why does President Obama want to make permanent lower social security taxes?

The answer to your question involves the Fed and artifically low interest rates and their creation of market bubbles. And the goverment's role in keeping the FFR artificially at low levels to fulfill a Fed mandate of maximimal employment...

Ask Japan about their "lost decade"....
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      02-15-2012, 04:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
Then why does President Obama want to "lower taxes on the middle class?" and why does President Obama want to make permanent lower social security taxes?

The answer to your question involves the Fed and artifically low interest rates and their creation of market bubbles. And the goverment's role in keeping the FFR artificially at low levels to fulfill a Fed mandate of maximimal employment...

Ask Japan about their "lost decade"....
I love you ideliver, holding it down for those that arent ignorant. The lost decade is also a great argument against the gold standard, also an argument for another thread.

So Scotch you asked and despite the patronizing tone that pervades all your ignorant post i will tell you.

A FLAT 15% tax rate. cut all loop holes, and lower capgains to 12% this will foster growth in a big way in the market. Give a kick back to ONLY the poor who work, taper the kick back as the level of pay raises. Payroll tax needs to drop in a big way, in my firm were under a wage freeze more or less, this cut in payroll tax would give us the funds to go back to giving raises. Incentivise the poor further by providing a small bonus to relocate to areas in need of the lowest of skilled labor. In Texas we have a HUGE problem with people not wanting to work in low skill oil industry. This leads to the industry having to pay far more than they really need to considering the rate of unemployment. this idea is also good as it would help overall employment to raise, as the jobs that many DONT want would soon be filled out of necessity. Spend more money on health education and as a stipulation for collecting these kick backs above, a social worker MUST walk those getting it regularly through ideas such as contraception/ birth control as well as dietary and budgetary education. This would cost alot short term, but long term will pay off. child care will also be part of this kick back to the working poor again only in cases of employment. Obama care would cease to exist completely. Further to foster competition, we could perhaps temporarily lower minimum wage paid by employers and again through kick backs this effect would be diminished, only in specific industries, though i hesitate on this as it is in a sense choosing winners and losers. (in regards to the jobs going out of country)

Lets not forget guys, in China there is a waiting list to get those Apple jobs as outlined above.
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      02-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
One wonders how the hell people were able to make money in the 1990s. What with all them high taxes that the government was trying to kill business with. Those must have been terrible years, I bet nobody was making any money then because of those horrible 35% taxes they had to pay. Ohh boo hoo...
Don't forget one very important ingredient in the 1990's. a Conservative Republican majority in congress for the first time in 40 years which led to welfare reform and historically low unemployment. Secondly all the doomsday rhetoric leading up the Y2K end of world panic drove massive tech spending and wealth creation until the tech bubble burst once everyone realized life would go on.

Raising marginal tax rates at a time like this will not produce more tax revenue as it would further suppress economic activity leading to higher and more prolonged unemployment. Simple Econ 101 stuff (for those not blinded by liberal class envy dogma)
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      02-15-2012, 06:48 PM   #140
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hey guys, seems like now obama's "im the poors defender" speech is back

i guess one of these days he gonna appears on a miting coming down the sky through a light with the arms extendend, with a gospel chorus singing aleluya! aleluya!!!
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      02-15-2012, 10:13 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
One wonders how the hell people were able to make money in the 1990s. What with all them high taxes that the government was trying to kill business with. Those must have been terrible years, I bet nobody was making any money then because of those horrible 35% taxes they had to pay. Ohh boo hoo...
because the upper tax rates never paid anywhere near 35%...too many tax loop holes...two off the top of my head...country club dues and suits...both used to be tax deductible...now i use after tax money...with the country clubs closing and all of the custom men's stores replaced by Nordstom's....i would prefer to by my Canali suits at a local owned store....but they all closed after they stopped being deductible..

[edit: ALL interest was tax deductible...car loans, credit cards...store charges...everything...]

BTW...we are not paying historically low rates...come strong or don't come at all
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Last edited by ideliver; 02-16-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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      02-15-2012, 11:30 PM   #142
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OMG some rational thoughts based on un-distorted facts!...I commend some of the newcomers of this thread...finally some people that get it....
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