[bandook]

https://datazap.me/u/bandook/4th-gea...log=0&data=1-4

Does this look like a pump issue or tune? Default settings in latest Jb4 except fol upped by 20 on this pull for a test. My lpfp started making a ticking sound since I went e20 so I ordered a stage 2 pump. I just don't understand why the AFR goes rich when the pump pressure drops. Just got the car a month ago so still learning. Have done charge pipe and catless DP. New coils and plugs and cleaned intake valves. 93k miles on car.

[thejeremyman9]

Man the time resolution in JB4 logs is pretty awful. Are you running MHD BEF? If so, i would honestly just recommend purchasing the MHD monitoring module. Much better data.

I clicked through the parameters but i am not sure what you are looking at for fuel pressure? I also dont see what you mean about AFRs doing rich? I am also not sure if the "trims" are supposed to be STFTs in %? There's no units on most of the logged parameters and some (besides boost, afr, etc) are not obvious.

You can read my thread here to learn more about datalogging: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

You should be able to run E20 without a problem but maybe not with almost 22 psi of boost... most OTS E20-E30 maps target 16-18psi max.

[Fuel-It!]

You're over boosting down low so that is likely the cause of the fuel pressure drop. As a test set DWP = 0 on the user adjustment page and do another log.

[bandook]

Thanks for taking a look! It's the Jb4 bef. Should have mentioned 2013 pwg. I've tried taking the boost spike out with duty cycle and PID But only thing that helps is setting a higher PID makes the boost bike shorter duration. Yeah I'm not crazy at all about the way the JB4 logs. Makes no sense. I'm coming from HP tuners which I've been using the last 5 or 6 years on my other car. But I see the AFR dip as low as in the 9's at the same time the HPFP dips to 6 which I'm guessing is 600 psi? But yeah I usually does it when I shift in the 4th wide open throttle. Perhaps the DME richens AFR on a shift for torque management?

Thanks thejeremyman9, I've read through your thread before but I'm going to read it a couple more times.

And thanks Fuel-it! I ordered the stage two pump from you a couple days ago Just waiting for you to ship! My stock pump started making a ticking noise when I put some E85 in. I've had non E85 pumps fail on me and leave me stranded so I'm not taking that chance again. I'll do what you suggested and post a log up as soon as I can. Thanks

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by bandook

Thanks for taking a look! It's the Jb4 bef. Should have mentioned 2013 pwg. I've tried taking the boost spike out with duty cycle and PID But only thing that helps is setting a higher PID makes the boost bike shorter duration. Yeah I'm not crazy at all about the way the JB4 logs. Makes no sense. I'm coming from HP tuners which I've been using the last 5 or 6 years on my other car. But I see the AFR dip as low as in the 9's at the same time the HPFP dips to 6 which I'm guessing is 600 psi? But yeah I usually does it when I shift in the 4th wide open throttle. Perhaps the DME richens AFR on a shift for torque management?

Thanks thejeremyman9, I've read through your thread before but I'm going to read it a couple more times.

And thanks Fuel-it! I ordered the stage two pump from you a couple days ago Just waiting for you to ship! My stock pump started making a ticking noise when I put some E85 in. I've had non E85 pumps fail on me and leave me stranded so I'm not taking that chance again. I'll do what you suggested and post a log up as soon as I can. Thanks

HPFP typically operates at 2000-2500 psi at WOT. 600psi would be a complete crash essentially.

I didnt see 9s AFR in that log unless i missed something? There could be a dip in AFR on shift if the throttle closes but fuel injection continues.

If you are going to be doing a lot of logging it could also be worth it to explore the MHD monitoring module for 99$. I cant recall if their BEF is also free?

Also wanted to note, just incase you are not aware, of potential EKP concerns when you upgrade LPFP.

[Fuel-It!]

Happy to help and thanks for the order!

The logs are easy to read and the problem quite clear. Relog with DWP = 0 setting.

When fuel pressure crashes AFR goes wonky sometimes as vehicle opens up IPW in an attempt to prevent a major lean out.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Happy to help and thanks for the order!

The logs are easy to read and the problem quite clear. Relog with DWP = 0 setting.

When fuel pressure crashes AFR goes wonky sometimes as vehicle opens up IPW in an attempt to prevent a major lean out.

You say the logs are easy to read. Is there JB4 or other official documentation to help interpret the logs? For example, showing the units on all the logged parameters? Or what each logged parameter is actually logging?

Even an experienced person has difficulty understanding the JB4 logs compared to those generated from other platforms that considerably more user friendly, so someone who is new to logging is going to have no idea what they are looking at.

If there is such documentation i would be interested not only to learn for myself (even though i will never use a JB4), but would like to provide it on my datalogging thread for others benefit.

[bandook]

https://datazap.me/u/bandook/map-2-4...log=0&data=1-4
4th gear
https://datazap.me/u/bandook/3-4-gea...log=0&data=1-4
3-4 pull

I've seen 9.xx AFR once, usually 10 like this log. But yeah, my boost isn't spiking any more! So should I try bumping wdp up until it spikes and back it down a notch. Car feels good don't notice much lag but I was concentrating on logging. Pressure is still dropping on a shift. Hey, Fuel-it, does the lpfp help high pressure stay consistent or not? I thought I read it did but had someone tell me it doesn't. This is my first DI engine so I'm clueless. Makes sense that it would if it is struggling to provide volume for the HPFP to compress though.

I did get limp mode, new one that looks like it's for the fan. 1A2108 electric fan, self diagnosis stage 1:Light fan error. My temps were fine though. Found a thread where it seems this was a common issue on the 13's. Oh well, Bimmer life I guess. Fan is like 900 bucks though

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

You say the logs are easy to read. Is there JB4 or other official documentation to help interpret the logs? For example, showing the units on all the logged parameters? Or what each logged parameter is actually logging?

Even an experienced person has difficulty understanding the JB4 logs compared to those generated from other platforms that considerably more user friendly, so someone who is new to logging is going to have no idea what they are looking at.

If there is such documentation i would be interested not only to learn for myself (even though i will never use a JB4), but would like to provide it on my datalogging thread for others benefit.

Sure plenty of threads on the documentation:

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59973

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269

It's all the same data everyone else has so not sure where the confusion might come from. A couple fields like fuel trims are rescaled to make them easier to view in the JB4 charting software/app.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by bandook

https://datazap.me/u/bandook/map-2-4...log=0&data=1-4
4th gear
https://datazap.me/u/bandook/3-4-gea...log=0&data=1-4
3-4 pull

I've seen 9.xx AFR once, usually 10 like this log. But yeah, my boost isn't spiking any more! So should I try bumping wdp up until it spikes and back it down a notch. Car feels good don't notice much lag but I was concentrating on logging. Pressure is still dropping on a shift. Hey, Fuel-it, does the lpfp help high pressure stay consistent or not? I thought I read it did but had someone tell me it doesn't. This is my first DI engine so I'm clueless. Makes sense that it would if it is struggling to provide volume for the HPFP to compress though.

I did get limp mode, new one that looks like it's for the fan. 1A2108 electric fan, self diagnosis stage 1:Light fan error. My temps were fine though. Found a thread where it seems this was a common issue on the 13's. Oh well, Bimmer life I guess. Fan is like 900 bucks though

As expected the DWP change fixed your over boost issue, as well as your tip in fuel pressure issue. Now you still have a fuel pressure crash on the 4-5 so you'll want to lean out AFR, reduce E85, reduce boost, and/or add another fuel source like WMI or a high pressure pump upgrade.

The low fuel pressure pump upgrade may help this but I don't know if it will solve it, since this platform has no low fuel pressure sensor to monitor low pressure.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Sure plenty of threads on the documentation:

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59973

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269

It's all the same data everyone else has so not sure where the confusion might come from. A couple fields like fuel trims are rescaled to make them easier to view in the JB4 charting software/app.

Thanks for the links. I will update my datalogging thread. The confusion comes from units not be specified, values being scaled, numerous channels with no data, and abbreviations not being immediately obvious.

Originally Posted by bandook

https://datazap.me/u/bandook/map-2-4...log=0&data=1-4
4th gear
https://datazap.me/u/bandook/3-4-gea...log=0&data=1-4
3-4 pull

I've seen 9.xx AFR once, usually 10 like this log. But yeah, my boost isn't spiking any more! So should I try bumping wdp up until it spikes and back it down a notch. Car feels good don't notice much lag but I was concentrating on logging. Pressure is still dropping on a shift. Hey, Fuel-it, does the lpfp help high pressure stay consistent or not? I thought I read it did but had someone tell me it doesn't. This is my first DI engine so I'm clueless. Makes sense that it would if it is struggling to provide volume for the HPFP to compress though.

I did get limp mode, new one that looks like it's for the fan. 1A2108 electric fan, self diagnosis stage 1:Light fan error. My temps were fine though. Found a thread where it seems this was a common issue on the 13's. Oh well, Bimmer life I guess. Fan is like 900 bucks though

Other thing i would note is that in the 4th gear log, you have a partial throttle closure down to about 50% for part of the pull. I still dont see afr dipping down; are you looking at "afr" channel?

As far as LPFP goes, it will supply more than enough fuel to max out a stock turbo, especially for PWG, unless it is having issues. The big turbo thread showed someone making 650whp on E50 with stock LPFP (HPFP upgraded also of course) and tons of people run stock LPFP with upgraded HPFP and E mixes anywhere from 30-50% on stock turbo and PS2 with custom tunes. Bottom line, there is no reason to upgrade LPFP before HPFP unless your LPFP has an issue.

[bandook]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Thanks for the links. I will update my datalogging thread. The confusion comes from units not be specified, values being scaled, numerous channels with no data, and abbreviations not being immediately obvious.



Other thing i would note is that in the 4th gear log, you have a partial throttle closure down to about 50% for part of the pull. I still dont see afr dipping down; are you looking at "afr" channel?

As far as LPFP goes, it will supply more than enough fuel to max out a stock turbo, especially for PWG, unless it is having issues. The big turbo thread showed someone making 650whp on E50 with stock LPFP (HPFP upgraded also of course) and tons of people run stock LPFP with upgraded HPFP and E mixes anywhere from 30-50% on stock turbo and PS2 with custom tunes. Bottom line, there is no reason to upgrade LPFP before HPFP unless your LPFP has an issue.

The AFR probably isn't an issue. Right after a shift it drops to 10's and I've seen high 9's. I was just noticing it happens when fp-h is at the lowest. But everything seems a lot better without the boost spikes. Boost is more choppy instead of a smooth line now, but I should be able to tune that out using your guide and some tests. Kinda looks like pid is too high now.

I'm glad to hear that the fuel system is strong on these cars. But I still don't know why the fph is dipping low on shifts. I even see it do it on short pulls. But I don't feel anything and the afr's are fine so I'll just keep an eye on it and enjoy the car. Fuel-it is out of replacement canisters so I had to cancel my order. I'll probably just diy a walbro into it. I just don't like the noise it's making so I'm playing it safe and it's an easy swap. I know about the ekps so I'm at least going to heatsink it, possibly add a fan. Mine has an ekpm3 now, thinking I'll order an ekpm2 just to have on hand since they are inexpensive. My plan is upgrade turbo in the spring.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by bandook

The AFR probably isn't an issue. Right after a shift it drops to 10's and I've seen high 9's. I was just noticing it happens when fp-h is at the lowest. But everything seems a lot better without the boost spikes. Boost is more choppy instead of a smooth line now, but I should be able to tune that out using your guide and some tests. Kinda looks like pid is too high now.

I'm glad to hear that the fuel system is strong on these cars. But I still don't know why the fph is dipping low on shifts. I even see it do it on short pulls. But I don't feel anything and the afr's are fine so I'll just keep an eye on it and enjoy the car. Fuel-it is out of replacement canisters so I had to cancel my order. I'll probably just diy a walbro into it. I just don't like the noise it's making so I'm playing it safe and it's an easy swap. I know about the ekps so I'm at least going to heatsink it, possibly add a fan. Mine has an ekpm3 now, thinking I'll order an ekpm2 just to have on hand since they are inexpensive. My plan is upgrade turbo in the spring.

Sounds like a solid plan. You will definitely want a upgraded HPFP if you plan to run ethanol mix with upgraded turbo.

[bandook]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

As expected the DWP change fixed your over boost issue, as well as your tip in fuel pressure issue. Now you still have a fuel pressure crash on the 4-5 so you'll want to lean out AFR, reduce E85, reduce boost, and/or add another fuel source like WMI or a high pressure pump upgrade.

The low fuel pressure pump upgrade may help this but I don't know if it will solve it, since this platform has no low fuel pressure sensor to monitor low pressure.

https://datazap.me/u/bandook/map-5-a...log=0&data=1-4

So I installed the new pump. I don't see my fph dumping as bad now. This was the only log I got where it dipped to 9. Also bumped up the ethanol to maybe e25'ish. Looks like the pump definitely helped! Is it even worth it with the stock turbo to turn up duty cycle for more high end boost, or is this kind of the limit of the stock pump? Tried bumping up DWP but even at 10 it overboosts. Has only done this since I flashed the BEF.

My assumption that the stock pump was ticking was wrong I guess. Still get the ticking sound after I drive for awhile. It's very faint and a tiny bit of music drowns it out, but bugs me that I don't know what it is.