Handling vs power

[philaf_666]

Is it just me or there is about a 5 to 1 ratio of threads between power mods vs handling mods?

That seems kind of weird for me when the biggest flaws on this car are in regards to the suspension, bushings, etc. not power. Power is really easy to get on this car (just a tune and you have a rocket), but handling, quite a different story.

I feel there is so much more components involved when fine tuning the handling characteristics of the 1er.

People all claim BMW are precision machine, good for track, etc. but they all spend their money on engine when we all know that on a track, power really isn't the real solution...

Just a thought...

[m3bs]

The ratio is even higher for the appearance mods. I've taken care of handling and power. I'm done!

[JB135i]

People just don't seem to turn their cars anymore.

But you are 100%, at stock levels there is already more power than the suspension can properly handle.

[MastaMind]

It probably has something to do with the relatively cheap and easy gains that are attainable with the N54.

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by MastaMind

It probably has something to do with the relatively cheap and easy gains that are attainable with the N54.

Very true. That's what sucked me into the JB3 club. I sure wish I could find 80 HP for my E36 M3 for $500!

[philaf_666]

I feel the 135i is turning into a drag machine vs a track machine...

I know the overheating is a problem for the track, but can be fix with intercooler and oil cooler... same thing with brakes, changing the pads and fluid seem to fix it too.

What sucks is that if there is not enough demand for suspension parts, nobody will produce them...

I agree that 500$ for 80hp/80tq is very cheap though!

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

What sucks is that if there is not enough demand for suspension parts, nobody will produce them...

What suspension parts do you want that aren't out there? There are several coilover options, at least 3 swaybar picks, springs and shocks.

[Citizen Z]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

I feel the 135i is turning into a drag machine vs a track machine...

I know the overheating is a problem for the track, but can be fix with intercooler and oil cooler... same thing with brakes, changing the pads and fluid seem to fix it too.

What sucks is that if there is not enough demand for suspension parts, nobody will produce them...

I agree that 500$ for 80hp/80tq is very cheap though!

In many cases, you have to pay over $10,000 for that! (Economy Car)

[akak1997]

I guess the problem is money. Suspension mods aren't cheap ya know... swaybar seems to be the cheapest and best bang for buck suspension mod, that set you back ~300, which you can get a jb3 pin-out for that. going fast in a straight line is still going fast, at least for some peeps.

I've intake and jb3 for power, and I think at the most (for the next year or 2) I'd get an catback exhaust and I'm calling it done for power. I've already got a front swaybar and strut bar, now I need to save up for coilovers and some M3 suspension parts. ~3k-4k isn't easy to save up with all the other toys I want to get :P

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by m3bs

What suspension parts do you want that aren't out there? There are several coilover options, at least 3 swaybar picks, springs and shocks.

Well, it's not only producing items, but also doing some R&D to see what cause what and how it could be adjusted.

I have to do my own R&D to be where I want to be with the car...

I bought the KW v2 - I thought it was going to fix all the handling problem from what I had read. That ain't the case, it's still too soft and the steering is still not precise enough. The car understeers quite a bit.

I bought M3 front kit - Fixed a little of the understeer and steering is more precise. But still too much body roll.

I bought Direzza Z1 - The car grips much more

I bough Hotchkis front sway - The car is more flat during cornering, but the understeer is a bit worst. Now the front of the car is really good, but I feel the issues with the rear.

I bought UUC rear sway, m3 subframe bushings and 700lbs rear spring - I haven't installed it yet, but hopefully that will bring me to where I want to be. Flat during cornering, precise steering, lot of grip, more neutral, less bouncy.

I might have to upgrade the front spring a bit, but not sure yet. I don't want it to be too harsh either.

There's probably easier way to get there, but there's not a lot of info and no complete kit. If handling for the 1 was a more popular subject, I could find more easily what I'm looking for and suppliers would probably respond to the demand with complete kit for less $$.

But if I want to produce more power... different story.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by akak1997

I guess the problem is money. Suspension mods aren't cheap ya know... swaybar seems to be the cheapest and best bang for buck suspension mod, that set you back ~300, which you can get a jb3 pin-out for that. going fast in a straight line is still going fast, at least for some peeps.

I've intake and jb3 for power, and I think at the most (for the next year or 2) I'd get an catback exhaust and I'm calling it done for power. I've already got a front swaybar and strut bar, now I need to save up for coilovers and some M3 suspension parts. ~3k-4k isn't easy to save up with all the other toys I want to get :P

100% agree and that's the whole point. If we knew exactly what there is to be changed to handle like an M3 and everybody would like to be there, it would be much cheaper. Now it's trial and error and the parts are quite expensive.

[scorcherjf]

I was thinking about the KW coilovers but after reading your list of suspension mods I'm worried! Perhaps I should start thinking about trading up for an M3 =0

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

100% agree and that's the whole point. If we knew exactly what there is to be changed to handle like an M3 and everybody would like to be there, it would be much cheaper. Now it's trial and error and the parts are quite expensive.

Everyone has their own opinion of what ideal handling is. Is the M3 really the target? Not for me. I wasn't that imressed with my test drive of the new M3. I went with a setup that uses relatively stiff, linear rate springs because that is the feel that I wanted. My (however limited) experience with progressive rate springs has not been positive. Mine is probably not the setup for someone who spends lots of time on the road, but different strokes.......

[jeremyc74]

My car is a street driven daily driver, not a track car. I can enjoy more power on a regular basis, but it's rare that I can push the car to its handling limits. More power = more fun for me.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by m3bs

Everyone has their own opinion of what ideal handling is. Is the M3 really the target? Not for me. I wasn't that imressed with my test drive of the new M3. I went with a setup that uses relatively stiff, linear rate springs because that is the feel that I wanted. My (however limited) experience with progressive rate springs has not been positive. Mine is probably not the setup for someone who spends lots of time on the road, but different strokes.......

I agree that progressive rate springs might be one part of what I don't like about the KW. I'm changing the rear, I'll see for the front.

BTW, I was referring to the M3 as an example, I have not even driven one

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

My car is a street driven daily driver, not a track car. I can enjoy more power on a regular basis, but it's rare that I can push the car to its handling limits. More power = more fun for me.

I guess you're right, that would explain why people are all talking about power vs handling.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy power a lot, but it sucks when you have the fastest car around and you get into a corner and then you don't anymore...

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

I bought UUC rear sway, m3 subframe bushings and 700lbs rear spring - I haven't installed it yet, but hopefully that will bring me to where I want to be. Flat during cornering, precise steering, lot of grip, more neutral, less bouncy.

With 7000lbs springs in the rear, I suspect you will not need to run a rear sway bar.

Back to you original question, people here have it right. It is a cost thing. If you bought the M3 suspension pieces (F&R rods and subframe bushings) and had to pay someone to install them, the cost would be close to $2k. Camber platesa re also $400-500 plus install. Power mods are cheap and can be done by even the shadiest of shade tree mechanics.

Personally I have been focusing on handling (M3 susp, front sway) as I autox the car. The car has plenty of power but does not turn well. In autox there are more turns than straight lines.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by nordique14

With 7000lbs springs in the rear, I suspect you will not need to run a rear sway bar.

I guess you are right, but the thing is I'm replacing the subframe bushings and I feel that while at it, why not? It's such a pain to drop the subframe that if I end up not liking the stiffer springs, at least I'll have the rear sway

Originally Posted by nordique14

Back to you original question, people here have it right. It is a cost thing. If you bought the M3 suspension pieces (F&R rods and subframe bushings) and had to pay someone to install them, the cost would be close to $2k. Camber platesa re also $400-500 plus install. Power mods are cheap and can be done by even the shadiest of shade tree mechanics.

It's true that for cheap (tune) you can go quite fast, but if you are really serious about going fast, then it's complete exhaust line + downpipes + o2 simulator + intercooler + oil cooler + ddv valve, so pretty costly too.

Same goes for handling. Just a set of struts and springs isn't that expensive for much improve handling. But, when you become serious about it... $$$

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

What sucks is that if there is not enough demand for suspension parts, nobody will produce them...

I agree that 500$ for 80hp/80tq is very cheap though!

yea what...tckline is amazing.

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by m3bs

Everyone has their own opinion of what ideal handling is. Is the M3 really the target? Not for me. I wasn't that imressed with my test drive of the new M3. I went with a setup that uses relatively stiff, linear rate springs because that is the feel that I wanted. My (however limited) experience with progressive rate springs has not been positive. Mine is probably not the setup for someone who spends lots of time on the road, but different strokes.......

true story
progressive springs[kw] are ok for everything but good for nothing. you will not enjoy the a tracking experience with v2s or 3s.

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by philaf_666

It's true that for cheap (tune) you can go quite fast, but if you are really serious about going fast, then it's complete exhaust line + downpipes + o2 simulator + intercooler + oil cooler + ddv valve, so pretty costly too.

Same goes for handling. Just a set of struts and springs isn't that expensive for much improve handling. But, when you become serious about it... $$$

Very True. As it sits now, my car has as much performance (power AND handling) than I'll ever be able to use on the street, and frankly, a whole lot more than anybody should be using. I plan to take it back to the track one more time so I can compare with the stock performance. If it turns out to be faster than my E36M3 track car...............this could get really expensive!