Engine Malfunction Power reduced

[M3x2]

this thread gives me indigestion.

I hope things work outr well for you!

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by SuitedPair

Just got the message- SA said a "valve spring came apart"

Now, what should I be worried about in the engine when a valve spring fails?? How common is this?

Not very common especially since your car has super low miles. BMW might want your engine sent to munich for evaluation. For they ca inspect it and find out why it failed if it was material failure or mechanical failure? And prevent future failures

[wheeladdicts]

If you arent successful with the lemon law make sure to push for a 100,000 warranty.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by wheeladdicts

If you arent successful with the lemon law make sure to push for a 100,000 warranty.

Yeah saw your other thread... This doesn't really sound like a lemon law issue. That's generally for repeated failures of the same thing. If they do repair, push REAL hard for the extended warranty. They might just swap the engine though... probably easier for the dealership.

[SuitedPair]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Yeah saw your other thread... This doesn't really sound like a lemon law issue. That's generally for repeated failures of the same thing. If they do repair, push REAL hard for the extended warranty. They might just swap the engine though... probably easier for the dealership.

Lemon Law has two qualifications in FL- either in the shop for 3 visits for the same issue or in the shop once for 15 consecutive calendar days (that's today). They have 10 days after they are given notice to remedy the problem after which time I can request arbitration (buyback or replacement).

[SuitedPair]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

Not very common especially since your car has super low miles. BMW might want your engine sent to munich for evaluation. For they ca inspect it and find out why it failed if it was material failure or mechanical failure? And prevent future failures

This is what I wish will happen.

[wheeladdicts]

Either way best of luck. Might want to research how much damage this part failure can cause and present it to them. Sometimes when the dealership sees you know what CAN happen because of the failure they work with you.

[SuitedPair]

Originally Posted by wheeladdicts

Either way best of luck. Might want to research how much damage this part failure can cause and present it to them. Sometimes when the dealership sees you know what CAN happen because of the failure they work with you.

yep, that's what I've been trying to do this afternoon but not having much luck. I wonder how much of these engines are assembled by machine and how much by hand... especially with setting the valve seat, etc.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by SuitedPair

Lemon Law has two qualifications in FL- either in the shop for 3 visits for the same issue or in the shop once for 15 consecutive calendar days (that's today). They have 10 days after they are given notice to remedy the problem after which time I can request arbitration (buyback or replacement).

No kidding... I think it's different in California. Good luck... I know it's not always as easy as the law states, but it sounds like you have a VERY good case.

[Greeney]

Where do you bring your car for service??

[JCtx]

Good luck man. I was going to say to keep us posted, but every time something like this is settled, posters disappear (part of the deal with BMW, I guess), so never mind . Your silence will mean BMW gave you a new car .

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

How common is this? Apparently BMW was worried enough about early valve springs that they changed them for later models. Not sure when they changed it -- I think sometime 2009.

Damn, so we '08 owners not only have to worry about possible defective main crank bearings, but bad valve springs as well? Geez! Add the expensive (after warranty) to replace ICV to the list, and it makes little sense to keep this car after warranty. What a shame; I really wanted to keep it. I bought one of the last '08s thinking most issues (ICV, etc) would be fixed by then. But most importantly, I assumed BMW learned its lesson after main bearing issues with the S54 engine, and didn't have to worry about that anymore. I assumed wrong . Oh well. I'll enjoy it for a couple more years, then switch to a P car on my 50th birthday. Good day.

[SuitedPair]

Originally Posted by Greeney

Where do you bring your car for service??

Coggin BMW of Fort Pierce. I'm not a fan of Braman in West Palm Beach.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

In order of severity:
1. Benign, no damage (not likely).
2. Broken valve spring means the valves will not close when following the cam lobe. This will cause bent valves because the valve spring was not working to close the valve before the piston hit it. This is the most likely scenario.
3. Catastrophic failure. After bending the valve, it broke off and destroyed the piston, cylinder wall, and cylinder head combustion chamber. In some cases, pieces of the broken valve would make its way from one cylinder to the next causing damage in another cylinder as well. You'd probably know if this happened.

How common is this? Apparently BMW was worried enough about early valve springs that they changed them for later models. Not sure when they changed it -- I think sometime 2009.



Broken valve springs are not related to valve seats. Valve seats are pressed into the cylinder head. I don't see any chance of a valve seat coming dislodged due to a broken valve spring. However, that's not to say I haven't seen dislodged valve seats before -- I have. But it wasn't related to broken valve springs. If the valve seat becomes dislodged, then you're definitely damaging the valve and possibly piston (depending on how far the valve seat dislodges itself).

Good luck. Keep us updated.

Thanks, PG. So far, 2 days into investigating what parts need replacing and no answer yet. It's interesting, of all the responses that I received (and countless people I have talked to), not one person said, "oh, broken valve spring at 1,300miles...probably not a problem, just have them fix it up." This is what keeps me up at night. We'll see if BMW can just do the right thing.

[skywalker562]

best of Luck! keep us updated

[SuitedPair]

Update:
Just got off the phone with the service manager:

The piston head "lightly tapped" the valve. Valve was not bent. The parts they need to repair it are a new valve, valve spring, and retainer. No scoring of the cylinder wall.
BMW will not entertain requests of a new engine or new vehicle.
BMW does not see the need to replace the other valves.

I said this was not acceptable. I am waiting for a return call from BMWNA. Am I out of line...what would you do??
Me:

[Georgeair]

I'd make them show me, at the very least.

[erio]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

George is right on the money...make them show you inside the cylinder and top of the piston. Take your digital camera, take pictures of the piston, valve, and valve springs; then post them for advice. Remember, this is YOUR car not BMW's. So you can make this demand to see and photograph the damaged parts and they cannot refuse.

There's great people around here who can look and tell you what they think.

+1

[SuitedPair]

Thanks guys, I'm doing that tomorrow. I'll post the pictures.

[mkoesel]

And for sure - ask them how they know the valve isn't bent. What are they doing, just eyeballing it? I would be very weary of the piston in that cylinder being ok. Even a slight deformation on the piston surface could in theory effect combustion. If they are replacing this valve that supposedly is not bent, then they should at least consider replacing the piston that supposedly is not scarred. Obviously that means cracking open the bottom end and lots of labor.

[SuitedPair]

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]Just took pics. It was today (Saturday) so no manager or service advisor or tech. Don't know which valve spring went bad but I bet its the one with the lifter missing, closest cylinder to the firewall (far left in pic and those are the closeups).
I have a lot more pics...request more closeups and I'll post them.
Thanks for any input.

[nebz]

damn does most of the m3s have this problem?

[JCtx]

Piston and cylinder wall does look damaged on the pics, which is good news, I guess. How did the spring break? One little piece that went flying somewhere, or in the middle, and stayed in place? Any pics of that?

Is engine still in the car, or was it removed? It pains me to see a new car like that. Oh, and is it normal for pistons to be that dirty with just 1,300 miles ???