IS prices going nuts

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I am getting genuinely curious as to what the differences in the is models are?


I caught mention of blue stitching, PPK2 (which I don't know what that is) and some different wheels.

Where do I go to find out more about these cars?




... and I might say the 1m is on steroids. Anything else would just be a weak protein shake?

The PPK2 or PPK Stage 2 is just a PPK1 or PPK Stage 1 with additional cooling hardware. The software update is the same for both stages. But with the Stage 2 you get an auxiliary radiator which mounts on the driver side space in front of the front wheel opposite the oil cooler. You also get a beefier/heavy duty radiator fan. I opted to do the PPK2 on my 135i.

[Happy Jose]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Seriously? The 135is is a regular series car with a few port-installed accessories installed, plus extra badging to make you feel exclusive. It's not even an official BMW AG product - it was invented by BMWNA to sell more cars.

What makes it exclusive is the extra $5K BMW charged for this package:

Some boring looking wheels of suspected quality in the strength department.

A software upgrade to create a whole extra 20HP!

A cooling upgrade, why?

A noisy exhaust.

Not much value there for the money.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by swagon

All the is-specific hardware (PE, PPK, stickers, badges) was installed at the port in the US by BMWNA. It's not even registered in the VIN, unlike the 335is.

I didn't get any port installed options (thankfully no hideous dash badge).

Installed at 3 miles: (delivery)
-BMW Performance Short Shift Kit
-BMW Performance Electronic Steering wheel

Installed at 435 miles:
-BMW Performance Exhaust

Installed at 1734 miles:
-BMW Performance Suspension

Installed at 2121 miles:
-BMW PPK Stage 2
-BMW Performance Side Skirts

Installed at 4035 miles:
-BMW Stainless Steel pedal set (same as sold original on 335is)

Enjoyed years before the 135is was available. But still just a lowly 135i I guess.

Now, I will say the 313s are sharp looking wheels. Though I wouldn't want the blue stitching unless I had a LeMans blue.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Oh and what's funny when you do a VIN/options search, all of our 135i's come up as 135is.

Right. I recall an image Dackelone posted of a BMW screen showing the 135i internal name as 135is back in 2008-2010 time frame. I looked for it, but couldn't find it.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by swagon

All the is-specific hardware (PE, PPK, stickers, badges) was installed at the port in the US by BMWNA. It's not even registered in the VIN, unlike the 335is.


Gotta love these threads. They're always the same.

That has zero to do with whose idea it was and who ordered that it be done. The USA is a hugely important market for M-cars, especially for the M2 now.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

I also look online at 135i/is car sales and the is pricing very much depends on if the seller (usually an independent dealer) knows what they are selling. Many 135is are sold as 135i with no bump in price, but when sold as a 135is, usually the price is higher.

One issue would be which cars are really 135is cars and which are 135i cars. The VIN lookup engines are confusing, labeling all of them 135i/135is, so you have to get down into the weeds of the parts listing to be sure. I have seen 135i cars listed as though they were 135is cars, and it may be that some of the ones you've seen that were called 135is were in fact not, unless you pull up the VIN lookups and looked them over closely.

[Esteban]

Here's a post from MightyMouseTech that says there is a specific option to look for in a VIN decoder that identifies a 135is.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...51&postcount=3

[swagon]

Originally Posted by champignon

That has zero to do with whose idea it was and who ordered that it be done. The USA is a hugely important market for M-cars, especially for the M2 now.

What do you mean it has zero to do with who came up with the idea of 135/335is. It was BMWNA's idea. Same with the 335is.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Here's a post from MightyMouseTech that says there is a specific option to look for in a VIN decoder that identifies a 135is.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...51&postcount=3

Yeah. That code is also universal for other BMWs with Edition Sport/ M Sport Edition or whatever importers call them in their country.

ROW market E82 got Blacklines, blue stitching, 313's, and black mirrors iirc.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

The PPK2 or PPK Stage 2 is just a PPK1 or PPK Stage 1 with additional cooling hardware. The software update is the same for both stages. But with the Stage 2 you get an auxiliary radiator which mounts on the driver side space in front of the front wheel opposite the oil cooler. You also get a beefier/heavy duty radiator fan. I opted to do the PPK2 on my 135i.

Heat soak can be a bitch on the N55. Adding a tune doesn’t help things either. Having those little extras that people seem to overlook, especially since they aren’t visible, do make a difference particularly if you add tuning later.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by swagon

Yeah. That code is also universal for other BMWs with Edition Sport/ M Sport Edition or whatever importers call them in their country.

ROW market E82 got Blacklines, blue stitching, 313's, and black mirrors iirc.

Ok, but we're talking specifically about the 135i in the US, so HERE it means the 135is.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Heat soak can be a bitch on the N55. Adding a tune doesn't help things either. Having those little extras that people seem to overlook, especially since they aren't visible, do make a difference particularly if you add tuning later.

I got PPK1 in 2011 and have always driven my car pretty aggressively and it has never overheated. Now with the Dinan S2 tune (2016), I have the same oil temps as always. Of course, that may be different on a track.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Ok, but we're talking specifically about the 135i in the US, so HERE it means the 135is.

I know

[nachob]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

The problem I have with the "exclusivity" of the 135is is the fact you can pretty much buy all the stuff that goes into the 135is for the regular 135i. The only thing you can't get are the dash badge and the blue stitching for the leather. It's a nice option to get all the bits installed for you before you take delivery and probably end up paying less than buying/installing the bits later on a 135i. To me the numbering of the 135is is a bit made up to try to make the car more than it is.

In reference to the 1M, there's a huge difference. One...well....it's an M car. There are those that say the 1M is just M bits thrown into a 135i. As those who have done M conversions on their 1 series know, it's not just bolting up parts. The fact you have to significantly modify the rear fender/quarter panel to have the body work to support the wider wheels/tires is one thing you can't just bolt up. The other thing is there isn't just a drop in limited slip that applies for the 135i. And as someone mentioned, the steering rack is substantially different and not something that is a simple drop in/bolt on.

Ducati did this with the last model year of the 848. The sold the bike with some Ducati performance bits thrown in as factory installed parts. To me, it was a way to drum up end of model run hype for those on the fence about waiting for the new model or buying the out going one. Also maybe a way to clear out the parts bins in the warehouse. I see this as the same for the 135is.

I'm not bagging on those with 135is'. I almost bought one when I was buying my 135i. The dealer had just sold it and only had the one I bought left. I ended up adding the PPK2 to my 135i.

Oh and what's funny when you do a VIN/options search, all of our 135i's come up as 135is.

As this thread gets longer, I think this a good place to regroup and summarize some key points that most will agree that address the original poster's question about whether the 135is is worth $35K as it is entering the lower end of 1M pricing.

1. converting a 135i to a 1M is a large and expensive project. Almost all of the conversions I have seen,leave the stock steering rack which is a big part of the 1M's coolness. It is a fast rack and gives the car it's special character.

2. The 135is is a very cool car. It's special because it had the most stock horsepower for a non M and it sounds great. It is also available with an automatic and in a stunning blue color, which still makes my knees wobbly. I love that blue and if it was available in the 1M, I would've gotten that over the other 3 1M colors.

Look at this.....stunning:




3. The rarity part of the 135is, is misleading. Yes, technically you can say that there are only 580 vs 740 1Ms but what you get with the 135is, is primarily an options package. It's a cool package for sure and I would pay a little more for an "is" than a regular 135i if configured to my taste... no options, no sunroof, manual, no nave, manual seats. I would take an M Sport only 135i manual over a loaded 135is personally. I see people asking tens of thousands more for an M3 lime rock edition.....I don't get that..it's not a GTS, its an M3 with a package and a badge that says 1 of 70.

4. Despite all the differences between the 128i, 135i, 135is, 1M, we are all fans of the 1 Series. A quirky car that brought some credibility back to BMW after it had lost its way with ever more bloated, heavier, tech-laden cars. The 1 series was their peace offering for the rest of us that wanted a smaller, lighter front engine, rear wheel drive BMW with a manual transmission option. Long live the 1 series!

5. So if someone wants the best version of the non-M 1 series in blue and they have a lot of money to spare, then maybe it's worth it to someone, but overall, a properly configured 135i M-Sport is just as cool, because you can add the PPK and exhaust. The wheels on the 135is, are actually ugly to me, but if you like them, they are also easy to add. The OP's gutt is correct, I believe. At those prices, you might be able to find a good deal on a higher mileage 1M that is still in good condition.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Heat soak can be a bitch on the N55. Adding a tune doesn’t help things either. Having those little extras that people seem to overlook, especially since they aren’t visible, do make a difference particularly if you add tuning later.

That's exactly why I opted for the additional hardware. I have since overwritten the PPK software with the Dinan S2 tune. Am not unhappy having to spend money on software I no longer use? No. From what I've seen if you don't buy the PPK2, getting the hardware separately is a real PITA. I know there's a debate on whether the PPK software is truely overwritten. I don't really care. Although I like an aggressive exhaust sound, I'm not going to lose sleep over not having it. I joke to people looking for the sound and pops from the PPK some times by telling them to just punch a hole in their exhaust.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nachob

As this thread gets longer, I think this a good place to regroup and summarize some key points that most will agree that address the original poster's question about whether the 135is is worth $35K as it is entering the lower end of 1M pricing.

1. converting a 135i to a 1M is a large and expensive project. Almost all of the conversions I have seen,leave the stock steering rack which is a big part of the 1M's coolness. It is a fast rack and gives the car it's special character.

2. The 135is is a very cool car. It's special because it had the most stock horsepower for a non M and it sounds great. It is also available with an automatic and in a stunning blue color, which still makes my knees wobbly. I love that blue and if it was available in the 1M, I would've gotten that over the other 3 1M colors.

Look at this.....stunning:

[IMG]http://www.1addicts.com/forums/signa...c244836_60.gif[/IMG]


3. The rarity part of the 135is, is misleading. Yes, technically you can say that there are only 580 vs 740 1Ms but what you get with the 135is, is primarily an options package. It's a cool package for sure and I would pay a little more for an "is" than a regular 135i if configured to my taste... no options, no sunroof, manual, no nave, manual seats. I would take an M Sport only 135i manual over a loaded 135is personally. I see people asking tens of thousands more for an M3 lime rock edition.....I don't get that..it's not a GTS, its an M3 with a package and a badge that says 1 of 70.

4. Despite all the differences between the 128i, 135i, 135is, 1M, we are all fans of the 1 Series. A quirky car that brought some credibility back to BMW after it had lost its way with ever more bloated, heavier, tech-laden cars. The 1 series was their peace offering for the rest of us that wanted a smaller, lighter front engine, rear wheel drive BMW with a manual transmission option. Long live the 1 series!

5. So if someone wants the best version of the non-M 1 series in blue and they have a lot of money to spare, then maybe it's worth it to someone, but overall, a properly configured 135i M-Sport is just as cool, because you can add the PPK and exhaust. The wheels on the 135is, are actually ugly to me, but if you like them, they are also easy to add. The OP's gutt is correct, I believe. At those prices, you might be able to find a good deal on a higher mileage 1M that is still in good condition.

Thanks for the compliment nachob, but in case there is any confusion, my car is not a 135is. I do have the delightful 313 wheels though.

[Gangplank]

"It all depends on what your definition of "is" is?!

:

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

"It all depends on what your definition of "is" is?!

:

[minirips2]

Originally Posted by nachob

As this thread gets longer, I think this a good place to regroup and summarize some key points that most will agree that address the original poster's question about whether the 135is is worth $35K as it is entering the lower end of 1M pricing.

1. converting a 135i to a 1M is a large and expensive project. Almost all of the conversions I have seen,leave the stock steering rack which is a big part of the 1M's coolness. It is a fast rack and gives the car it's special character.

2. The 135is is a very cool car. It's special because it had the most stock horsepower for a non M and it sounds great. It is also available with an automatic and in a stunning blue color, which still makes my knees wobbly. I love that blue and if it was available in the 1M, I would've gotten that over the other 3 1M colors.

Look at this.....stunning:




3. The rarity part of the 135is, is misleading. Yes, technically you can say that there are only 580 vs 740 1Ms but what you get with the 135is, is primarily an options package. It's a cool package for sure and I would pay a little more for an "is" than a regular 135i if configured to my taste... no options, no sunroof, manual, no nave, manual seats. I would take an M Sport only 135i manual over a loaded 135is personally. I see people asking tens of thousands more for an M3 lime rock edition.....I don't get that..it's not a GTS, its an M3 with a package and a badge that says 1 of 70.

4. Despite all the differences between the 128i, 135i, 135is, 1M, we are all fans of the 1 Series. A quirky car that brought some credibility back to BMW after it had lost its way with ever more bloated, heavier, tech-laden cars. The 1 series was their peace offering for the rest of us that wanted a smaller, lighter front engine, rear wheel drive BMW with a manual transmission option.
5. So if someone wants the best version of the non-M 1 series in blue and they have a lot of money to spare, then maybe it's worth it to someone, but overall, a properly configured 135i M-Sport is just as cool, because you can add the PPK and exhaust. The wheels on the 135is, are actually ugly to me, but if you like them, they are also easy to add. The OP's gutt is correct, I believe. At those prices, you might be able to find a good deal on a higher mileage 1M that is still in good condition.

Dilly, Dilly! Long live the 1 series!

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by Esteban

If you're not a car enthusiast, you probably don't even know the 1 series exists. Came to the US in 2008 and was discontinued here after 2013. Most people who see my car know it's a BMW but don't know what model unless they see the badge, and then they say "I didn't know BMW made a 1 series." I like it like that. We fly under the radar. lol

Funny enough, I am a car enthuseast. I had heard of the 1-series. I didn't know the difference in the variety of models until I started seriously looking at buying one. I did a lot of research, but I am pretty sure most do not. BMW, Price, Condition, and that is all they see.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by CAVU

I hope people aren't overthinking this topic. For me it was simple. Do I check the "is" box on the order sheet or not? Do I want the PPK, extra cooler, 313 wheels, and Performance Exhaust or don't I? How much would those options cost if added ala carte? I ticked the "is" box. The concept of pursuing "a more desirable" or "more valuable" 135i never entered my mind. I never once regretted the decision.

Exactly my point. What is a PPK, 313 wheels, "performance exhaust", are all nothing but buzz words to most buyers.

[champignon]

All of the speculation of what impact the "is package" has and will have on resale values is just conjecture. The only thing that really matters is what the marketplace does. Your own opinion about the uniqueness of the vehicle, how much you like the exhaust or the wheels, is basically just background noise.

A few months ago I had the pleasure of spending a few hours with NachoB in San Diego. We had breakfast at a resort, and when we walked out into the parking lot there was an M3 from the last generation in the parking lot. It had a certain blue color that was very appealing to NachoB, who ended up talking with the owner at some length about the car. The car also had a dual clutch transmission. Nacho really liked the car, and personally speaking, due to its size and transmission, I would have zero interest in it. Here you have 2 BMW car enthusiasts, both owning a 1M, and I'm sure the spread in the price that Nacho and I would pay for this M3 exceeded $30,000. This illustrates how the used car enthusiast market is really a bunch of unrelated, 1-off sales, where each buyer and seller has their own unique motivations that cannot be easily generalized to the market as a whole, especially with somewhat rare vehicles.

People have been saying for years now that the 1M is not a "real M car" because it's engine is a modified version of the N54 found in a number of other, non-M, BMW cars. People have also been saying that 1M values will plummet when (pick your ending) the M2 comes out, the cars get older, some other car maker comes out with the car du jour, etc. etc. etc. And all the while, 1M values have been either stable or increasing.

There aren't very many of the 135is cars out there in the US marketplace, and every year there will be fewer desirable ones due to accidents, accrual of high mileage, neglect, what have you. Every transaction will be a one-off, as is now true of 1M transactions, because there just aren't that many out there for sale at any given time.

The question is how many motivated buyers are there looking for them? If the answer is zero, then you basically have a used 135i for sale with a few additional bits on it. If instead the answer when selling is that there are even 2 people interested in the same car, or one very well capitalized and patient seller, then you have a different outcome. And there won't be enough accurate information about resales on which to hang your hat or speak definitively about the "market" for the car, just as is the case with the 1M right now.