[jeffc31337]

I wouldn't get hung up on absolute numbers; just like dynos different day different conditions = different results. It could have been very hot, humid or a slippery drag strip.

I think the deltas seem appropriate though. We won't knwo for sure until we see an overlay on the same dyno, but from the specs the S4 has more torque throughout the band and more HP up top. The falcon is a beast engine output wise.

[TMR]

Isnt the S4 ALOT more money?

[jeffc31337]

Originally Posted by TMR

Isnt the S4 ALOT more money?

I believe they start MSRP at 45900 but I have no idea on the packaging.

[WOPALX]

Originally Posted by Sniz

you most certainly can compare those cars....why wouldnt you? that is not THAT big a price difference.

oh, and how much is that Ford?

We pay way too much for cars in Aus.

As tested prices in AUD / USD

S4 = $131,000 / $111,502
335 = $ 117,000 / $99,585
FPV = $79,000 / $67,241

Bang for buck the FPV is a good proposition, it just isn't in the same quality class as either the Audi or BMW.

[BavarianBullet]

Originally Posted by WOPALX

We pay way too much for cars in Aus.

As tested prices in AUD / USD

S4 = $131,000 / $111,502
335 = $ 117,000 / $99,585
FPV = $79,000 / $67,241

Bang for buck the FPV is a good proposition, it just isn't in the same quality class as either the Audi or BMW.

I thought I was dreaming when I saw the prices and AUD/USD exchange rates: a $100k USD 335i? WTF! I just got the deal of the century on mine at $44k last year! Woohoo!

I'm not so up on my metric KW to HP conversions so I looked it up- 415HP in the Falcon?! Yeah, we won't see that is the US any time soon.

The Audi and Falcon both handily beat the 335i in the 400m. Nice times and trap speed. Good job Audi. They took 3 years to catch up and made a nice car.

I don't think the falcon will ever make it to the US but if it did, that's a pretty cool ride (sans kermit green). Maybe Eco-boost v-6 with turbos will be something to own after all...

Good scan and topic OP. Thanks!

[SLV335I]

Originally Posted by TMR

Isnt the S4 ALOT more money?

No. They start at about 3 to 4k more with the DSG trans but when you add up the same options on the 4 door 335 X drive it came up to 1k more than the S4. And this was with both cars with the upgraded sound and Nav. When my warranty is done on my 335 I will be looking into the new S4.

[Robmaster]

guys, 0-100km/h is more than 0-60mph!!!


60mph = 96.56km/h

[zerodb]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

The steptronic is NOT a conventional torque-converter auto. It is mechanically locked up just like a DCT once you are rolling. Think of it as a MCT (multi-clutch transmission). Three dual position clutches gives you 8 gearing possibilities. Seven are used for 6 forward speeds and reverse. Try this: select third in the DS setting and step on the gas while observing revs. There is no "converter" slippage. Revs go up only with tire speed. It is a hell of a transmission.

You seem to believe that BMW has revolutionized the industry by making a locking torque converter. This has been going on for awhile. It's not a DCT, it's a slushbox.

This also has nothing to do with the validity of the comparison.

[zerodb]

I do think it's curious that when Audi first brought the S4 to the USA (I don't know about the rest of the world) it was targeted squarely at the M3... failing at that, they have since made it a competitor for the "higher end" model of the 3 series. I guess they know that the 335i would demolish the A4 with a V6 without any competition whatsoever, so they've re-aimed the S4 at the 335i. Which is fine, except that the S4 is clearly a more purpose-built sporting car while the 335 continues to toe the line of a luxury/sports vehicle. It doesn't surprise me that on a track the S4 beats the BMW in that context.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Anyway, this is not a fair comparison by any means. The BMW is 42.300EUR and the S4 is 51.400 in Europe. This leaves 9100 EUR for improvements on the BMW (or $6000 difference in North America) I think I can safely say that for this price you can equip the BMW with (OEM) BMW Performance Power Kit, exhaust, suspension system and braking system.

Now that would be a fair comparison to me (and I read such a comparison is being done by one of the German magazines this autumn). You can't compare with a car which is 9.000 (or $6000 in the US) cheaper.

I agree with you, and then I don't...let me explain. There certainly is a big price difference between those cars, but which becomes less so if you equip the 335i with an all-wheel-drive. Still, the difference remains substantial, which for me (alongside the ridiculously priced options) was one of the factors of not going with an S4. However, for some people such difference is not a decisive factor, and both cars cater to the same buyer profile and are in the same range of engine power - so I would say it's ok to compare them.

However I also agree with you that with one or two options such as the Performance exhaust (even though I would never base my decision to buy a $60.000 car on its exhaust note) or an LSD, the 335i becomes a different animal, let alone the Performance Power Kit with which it then more or less equals the S4's output. Such a comparison will be published in around 10 days in Germany.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[zerodb]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I agree with you, and then I don't...let me explain. There certainly is a big price difference between those cars, but which becomes less so if you equip the 335i with an all-wheel-drive. Still, the difference remains substantial, which for me (alongside the ridiculously priced options) was one of the factors of not going with an S4. However, for some people such difference is not a decisive factor, and both cars cater to the same buyer profile and are in the same range of engine power - so I would say it's ok to compare them.

However I also agree with you that with one or two options such as the Performance exhaust (even though I would never base my decision to buy a $60.000 car on its exhaust note) or an LSD, the 335i becomes a different animal, let alone the Performance Power Kit with which it then more or less equals the S4's output. Such a comparison will be published in around 10 days in Germany.

Alpina_B3_Lux

I don't think the xi should even enter the conversation, it's not a better performing vehicle than the i so it would do nothing to level the field. It would just close the price gap and open up the gap on the track.

I'm totally with you on the issues of relatively minor aftermarket (or even OEM-sourced) bits that would have changed the results dramatically. I look forward to reading the comparison you mentioned.

[lsdless]

Originally Posted by zerodb

I do think it's curious that when Audi first brought the S4 to the USA (I don't know about the rest of the world) it was targeted squarely at the M3... failing at that, they have since made it a competitor for the "higher end" model of the 3 series. I guess they know that the 335i would demolish the A4 with a V6 without any competition whatsoever, so they've re-aimed the S4 at the 335i. Which is fine, except that the S4 is clearly a more purpose-built sporting car while the 335 continues to toe the line of a luxury/sports vehicle. It doesn't surprise me that on a track the S4 beats the BMW in that context.

+1
M3 and S4/5 are in the same category and M3 wins easy. The S4 may perform better than 335i out of the box but who cares. BMW didn't make the 335i to compete against the S4. If anything it competes with Infinity's G37 and MB C350 which it does very well. The S4 may cost less than the M3 but BMW>AUDI and that's just the way it is. But us 335i owners just have to get JB3 and some suspension upgrades and we are right the with the S4 if not past. And who cares about that Ford, it's a hideous limited edition "high performance" sedan that nobody will buy and our cars are beautiful and are perfectly balanced between performance and luxury.

[i2iSTUDIOS]

s4 vs. 335, rs4 vs. m3.

[zerodb]

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

s4 vs. 335, rs4 vs. m3.

Yes, that is the case now but it wasn't always so. All the same, in my opinion comparing an "S-model" car to a more pedestrian 3-series is naturally going to skew the comparison if track times are the goal - the S-cars are more purpose-built for performance drivers, while the 335 still has multiple personalities to satisfy (like all of the automatic apologists who have fallen in love with drag racing the steptronic and have made it so you can't FIND a friggin 6MT on a lot anymore!)

[jeffc31337]

Originally Posted by zerodb

Yes, that is the case now but it wasn't always so. All the same, in my opinion comparing an "S-model" car to a more pedestrian 3-series is naturally going to skew the comparison if track times are the goal - the S-cars are more purpose-built for performance drivers, while the 335 still has multiple personalities to satisfy (like all of the automatic apologists who have fallen in love with drag racing the steptronic and have made it so you can't FIND a friggin 6MT on a lot anymore!)

A loaded 335 vs a loaded S4 = similar price, similar performance, similar amenities, similar size(s4 a tad larger). I personally don't agree one is a more purpose built car for track times. A purpose built car for track times doesn't have the luxury and ammenities that the s4 does for a similar price to the 335.

[Jamaican_Bimma]

Not to defend Audi but the M3 did not always destroy the Audi S4 (not until 2008). BMW stepped out of the whole M3 vs S4 when it gave the M3 over 400hp and entered the RS4 power level (RS4 had a sweet run but BMW caught up and took the star light). Anyway my point is since BMW M3 left the S4 performance level and took on the RS4 they had nothing to compete with the S4 (330 could not hold that spot) and it would be dumb for BMW to leave that mid-level power gap open. Now that's when 335 came into play and took the B7 s4 on like a champ, didn't destroy it but sure held up its end of mid-level performance and with a few simple mods left it behind (but thats where the B8 S4 comes in).

so while we are use to S vs M BMW left those days and made it RS vs M and i for one am happy they did .

[mmm def]

wa wa wa..all the cry babies need to get over that the S4 beats the 335.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by mmm def

wa wa wa..all the cry babies need to get over that the S4 beats the 335.

The s4 came out years after the 335. Im sure the next 335 will beat the current s4. Thats just how the cycle works. Competition is a good thing imo.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by zerodb

You seem to believe that BMW has revolutionized the industry by making a locking torque converter. This has been going on for awhile. It's not a DCT, it's a slushbox.

This also has nothing to do with the validity of the comparison.

If not revolutionized, it definitely is leading edge. The torque converter is only active in the early part of first gear. Most other locking torque converters, lock only in top gear for cruising and mileage (some can lock in the top two gears). Under load, they unlock for additional power. The Step does none of this. I have yet to have anyone explain an advantage of the DCT over the Steptronic (MCT), though there may be something and crow is such a tasty bird. Both are mechanically locked, use torque balance between clutches for smooth shifting between gears and don't lose power in a torque converter. Certainly, neither DCT or Step can fairly be called a slush box. Particularly, since the performance of either box is competitive with the manuals. Fun factor is biased toward the manual, of course.
Cheers

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

I have yet to have anyone explain an advantage of the DCT over the Steptronic (MCT)

Its simple. Go see the GIAC videos of Mr. 5. First one has a GIAC MT vs a piggyback (JB3) AT and at the signal the MT jumped ahead about one car length every time before being caught by the JB3. Today, Mr. 5 posted another video with MT vs. MT. This time, the JB3 car just jumped ahead without lagging behind for a while.

So there you have it.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Its simple. Go see the GIAC videos of Mr. 5. First one has a GIAC MT vs a piggyback (JB3) AT and at the signal the MT jumped ahead about one car length every time before being caught by the JB3. Today, Mr. 5 posted another video with MT vs. MT. This time, the JB3 car just jumped ahead without lagging behind for a while.

So there you have it.

I had said DCT vs MCT (Step), not MT. My use of MCT was probably confusing but done just to get across the idea that both types are locked up in performance use and similar in that regard. That if one is a dual clutch then the other is a multi clutch. I also meant to say similar performance given the SAME design effort. This does not mean that any specific DCT or MCT (Step) are equal.
Cheers

[MarkE92]

Tuners already have a kit for the S4 in europe.... same price as the Performance power kit but takes the power from 333 Hp to 431 Hp

BMW should at least fit the Power kit standard on the facelift E92 coming up to compensate BMW owners goning over to the dark side....... Audi...