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Please Help Me Get My Mid-Bass Back and Amplified
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04-16-2014, 10:38 AM | #1 |
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Please Help Me Get My Mid-Bass Back and Amplified
I originally posted in this thread Adding Second Amp to Technic Harness, but felt that although my question is close, I would be jacking a thread.
My statements below are based on what I have heard in my car ('11 335i e93 Premium L7) and articles I have read. My mid-bass under seat speakers have lost an abundance of sound, because I didn't pay any attention to Frequency Ranges in my upgrades. While trying to retain the mid-range, I also wanted to increase bass response too. Earthquake SWS-8xi frequency range is 30-200Hz. These are basically a Sub-Bass speakers. Then if you are using the Technics adapter harness, it's frequency range signal is only 30-150Hz. Which makes this a great Harness adapter if you want to add a sub-woofer or a sub-bass to get more kick and punch from your system. No doubt about that. Now the 4" door mid-range speakers should be starting at about 400hz. So there is a hole in your sound system from 150-400hz. If you check out the charts featured below, it shows that you are missing out on most of the critical frequencies that tie in the bass to the mid-range. Like having cataracts in your ears. References and charts from DAK.com Bass (Approximately 20hz-140hz) There is little musical material with fundamental frequencies below 60hz. What is normally perceived as low bass material is actually in the 60hz-140hz range. Only a few instruments actually reach this range such as the organ, contrabassoon and string bass. The 60hz-90hz range is where we notice the greatest perceptible changes in "bass response." Try a test tone and see just how well you hear 20hz or even 32hz, compared with the same volume of 60hz or 90hz. Mid-Bass (Approximately 140hz-400hz) Mid bass has lots of instruments included in its frequency range. Cello (my instrument), Bassoon, French Horn (Freedom Horn this year) and yes Male Voice are all here. This is where most 'bass' controls really muck up your music. Overemphasizing the mid-bass range gives the music a muddy, or "boomy" quality. If the mid-bass region is underemphasized, the music sounds hollow and thin. Midrange (Approximately 400hz-2.6khz) Since our ears are most sensitive to midrange frequencies, midrange has the greatest effect on the overall sound of your stereo system. Actually there is controversy among engineers and audiophiles as to what the proper balance should be in this range. Some settings are best suited to particular types of music. The "proper" settings are the ones most pleasing to you the listener. I won't list instruments here because virtually all instruments have fundamentals found here in the midrange with the exception of Contra Bassoons, Bass Tuba and a very few others. Attachment 1012076 Attachment 1012077 After seeing this data and charts, I can use the Technics Adapter Harness to drive the JL Audio 10W3 sub-woofer amplified by my JL Audio JX-500/1D. I know that the Earthquake SWS-8's don't belong in my set-up. So I now have as set of Kicker SSMB8 4ohm true mid-bass capability of 80-500hz. These speakers will fill in the gap and slightly cross-over the bass and mid range frequencies for a seamless sound. The issue is, where do I get the mid-bass signal to amplify and drive them? Or what do I need to get it accomplished? So, my question is, How do I get a signal to the input of a second amplifier to drive my 8" under seat speakers Last edited by BMWE934me; 03-15-2015 at 12:12 PM.. |
04-16-2014, 11:04 AM | #3 |
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I am basing this from what I have shown in the charts and what is written in the DAK.com article. Basically, I'm saying that is how it looks and sounds to me. Am I right? I don't know. I am trying to find out why i have lost so frequency loss in my car. When I put a full range speaker to my amp attached to the Technic harness, there is a gaping hole between the output from my 4" mids to the few bumps that come from the the full range.
What is the full range of your 4" mids and where is the crossover point to your tweeter? |
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04-16-2014, 11:09 AM | #4 |
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My advice would have been to use a Mobridge DA2, a Helix or Mosconi DSP, your midrange and tweeter replacements, and add in Jehnert door panels like I have. You'd have full range signal and 8 total midbass drivers.
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04-16-2014, 11:59 AM | #5 | |
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I appreciate the advice though. Thank you. |
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04-16-2014, 12:01 PM | #6 |
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What is the original frequency range going to the 8" mid-bass speakers?
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04-16-2014, 12:01 PM | #7 |
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100% understand and want to thank you for your service! I really don't have any other answer to your problem. Sorry!
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iPhone 6 Plus (iTunes library/iTunes radio/Waze, etc) to Airport Express via AirPlay. Toslink out of Airport Express to Helix P-Six DSP. PHD AF 1.C tweeters, PHD FB 4.1 midranges. Jehnert Door Cards and mid-bass'.
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04-16-2014, 12:03 PM | #8 |
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04-16-2014, 12:05 PM | #9 |
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It sounds like you don't understand what the Technic harness does. It does not change frequencies. What it does it taps the output of the OEM amp that is going to the underseat speakers. The frequency range for that output is about 30 to 150Hz. The signal still goes to the underseat woofers, so they play 30-150Hz. The harness piggy-backs off of the underseat speaker signal and feeds a low-level signal (30-150Hz) to an aftermarket amp for a trunk sub. Then you would normally need to filter out the mid-bass signals (about 80-150Hz) using the trunk sub aftermarket amplifier so that the subwoofer plays only the frequencies it is intended to play (30-80Hz in this case).
The underseats are still getting a 30-150Hz signal from the OEM amp but since you replaced them with Earthquakes, you are missing some of the mid-bass that the OEM woofers originally played. In order to do it right, I believe you should re-install the OEM woofers and run them band-passed between 80 and 150Hz off an aftermarket amp. So you would need to do two things with the wiring: 1.) split the signal coming from the Technic harness using the amp crossovers into 30-80Hz going to the sub amp and 80-150Hz going to the new amp for the underseats. 2.) cut the wires inside the Technic harness that go from the OEM amp to the underseat woofers. Then connect the end that goes to the woofers to the new amp. The OEM underseat woofers will do fine with 50-100 Watts so choose your 2-channel amp accordingly.
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04-16-2014, 12:13 PM | #10 | |
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Overall, with a good 4" mid, you should be able to get them to play down to 150hz, (my preference and setup is 200hz), and then either OEM mid bass or SSMB8 will play on up. If I had L7 - i would scrounge up the pennies for a DA2 |
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04-16-2014, 12:20 PM | #11 | |
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04-16-2014, 12:43 PM | #12 | |
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It sounds like you are saying to splice into the wires feeding the current amp from the Technic adapter and taking the spliced wires to the sub-woofer amp and use the filter to select to frequency output. Am I understanding you correctly? Since I already sold the OEM 8" speakers, I am going to keep the 300x2 amp and use the Kicker SSMB8 speakers as referred in a previous post. I thought it could be done that easily, but I thought I was missing a frequency range, so there had to be a little more to it. Last edited by BMWE934me; 04-16-2014 at 12:44 PM.. Reason: text |
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04-16-2014, 03:00 PM | #13 |
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I see, you should have used the OEM wiring. There was no need to run new wires to the underseats. The reason you are missing frequencies is because the Earthquakes don't reproduce them very well. The Kickers will be better at playing mid-bass. Otherwise, I think you are on the right track now.
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04-16-2014, 03:07 PM | #14 | |
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I appreciate all of your advice. Thank you |
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04-16-2014, 03:59 PM | #15 | |
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04-17-2014, 12:45 PM | #16 |
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what amp do you have now and what do you plan to buy? Installation location?
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04-17-2014, 04:16 PM | #17 |
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I have both Rockford Fosgate 200x2 and 300x2 for the 8" woofers. Currently using the 200x2, but may use the 300x2 with the Kicker SSMB8's. And I have JL Audio JX 500/1D for the JL Audio 10W3 sub-woofer.
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04-18-2014, 05:23 PM | #18 |
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Did you ever try changing the polarity on only one of your earthquakes? I tell you I went through that same ordeal when I first installed my SWS8's and was on the verge of pulling them out and putting the OEM's back. Before doing so I thought to try one step I use to when tuning systems back in the day and was VERY thrilled with the results. You are not losing any money by trying it, just a simple 2 wire change and listen.....
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04-18-2014, 05:32 PM | #19 |
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Yes, I did that awhile back. They worked better, but still hollow. I just built my adapter spacers to fit the SSMB8's in the OEM boxes. Once I get the lost crossover point back, I'll deal with the ski-pass box and sub-woofer for bass and sub-bass.
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04-18-2014, 05:35 PM | #20 |
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Weird.... With mine I do not even need to add an extra sub... Everyone assumes I have trunk mounted subs in mine now
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2011 E93 335is / BSM / Coral Red / 6MT / NAV / HK L7 / BSW Stage One / SWS8's
1994 E32 740iL / Black / Black 2008 E85 Z4 / Stratus Grey / Dream Red *SOLD* / 2006 E90 325i / Jet Black / Black *SOLD* / 2001 E53 X5 / Silver / Grey *SOLD* |
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04-18-2014, 10:11 PM | #21 |
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You're in luck then, no need for splitting the signal. Feed the RCA signal from the Technic harness into the JL amp. Set the crossover (Low-Pass) to 80Hz. Then run another pair of RCAs from the JL Pre-amp outputs to the RF amp. Set it to High-Pass and 80Hz.
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04-18-2014, 11:09 PM | #22 |
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No kidding. I never even noticed that feature before. Always thinking of inputs on an amp. Right there staring at me all along. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
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amplifier, logic 7, speakers outputs, stereo |
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