[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I'm in complete agreement. IMO the The pre 2021 M3 CS and M4 CS are the high water marks of the BMW M evolution.

Agreed, I don't know what else I could want from a car at this point.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

I'm not sure they lost their way. BMW still offers outstanding drivers cars but big flex SUVs make money. Even Ferrari is making an SUV now.

It's All About the Benjamins and in this case Chinese Benjamins. China is not the hot M market.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/

At the end of its anniversary year, BMW M GmbH has once again achieved record results. Global sales of performance and high-performance cars rose to 177,257 vehicles during the 2022 financial year. This represents an increase of 8.4 per cent compared to the previous year, despite the continuing challenging conditions in the area of logistics and supply chains. The most important single market in 2022 was again the USA, with the second most important sales region again being the German domestic market, followed by the UK.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...ales-2022.html

[XMetal]

The ultimate vote is with your pocket book. I don't see myself owning anything in the current or near future BMW lineup.

Good luck selling the club-on-wheels XM to those club going 7-figure income executives as I'm sure their genius ///Marketing research seem to indicate plenty of them out there for them to make a profit from!

[Car-Addicted]

I get Frank's view but here it is directly from the M folks. This IS the death of the M we know and love.

At the same time, 2022 marks BMW M GmbH's successful start into the age of electric mobility. “The best-selling BMW M automobile of 2022 is the all-electric BMW i4 M50,” says Timo Resch, Head of Customer, Brand and Sales at BMW M GmbH. “For us, this is a clear signal that the unique M feeling has arrived in the world of electrified vehicles.”

The BMW i4 M50 is powered by an electric motor on both the front and rear axles, which together generate a maximum output of 400 kW (544 hp). The perfectly coordinated power delivery of the two e-motors and independent suspension tuning ensure an M typical driving experience characterized by dynamics, agility and precision, which proved to be a real crowd-puller right from the outset.

With the BMW iX M60, a second all-electric performance car from BMW M GmbH made a highly successful debut. During the course of 2023, BMW M GmbH will continue its product offensive with, among other things, the first electrified high-performance automobile, the BMW XM, and the BMW i7 M70, a BMW M automobile based on the fully electric BMW i7. The further transformation towards electric mobility has also already been mapped out. In order to be able to include high-performance cars with purely electric drive in the range in the future, BMW M GmbH will intensify the corresponding concept testing in 2023. The focus will be on an integrated driving dynamics control system and an electric M xDrive all-wheel drive system with four electric motors, which will ensure that the emotionally powerful M feeling reaches an even higher level.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...ales-2022.html

[Rafichicago]

Bmw i4 M50 is as M car as Mercedes G Wagon is SUV. But hey. It will make sale numbers for M division look more on par with what accountants would like to see.

[Wheelwright]

BMW wins by default, because there is nothing else like M2 on the market. No other manufacturer offers a small, sporty car with lots of power and a manual transmission, which still remains practical and luxurious. It is the sweet spot if you ask me.

[Car-Addicted]

I went to BMW website and the i4 M50 is not a option under M cars for 2024 but shows up under electric cars. I suspect you are correct that the bean counters are at work here.

[Car-Addicted]

To me a "M" must be turbo charged, internal combustion engined rear wheel drive and needs to have at least a 10% improved level of performance over the base model.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

To me a "M" must be turbo charged, internal combustion engined rear wheel drive and needs to have at least a 10% improved level of performance over the base model.

That is the saddest statement I have ever read.

[IcewaterPete]

Nuts!

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

BMW wins by default, because there is nothing else like M2 on the market. No other manufacturer offers a small, sporty car with lots of power and a manual transmission, which still remains practical and luxurious. It is the sweet spot if you ask me.

I wouldn’t call the M2 luxurious. The interiors are actually very cheap feeling compared to true luxury cars.

[coop75]

BMW needs to change the whole design department!
BMW & BMW M used to make The Ultimate Machine.
Sadly BMW design has lost it big time with the latest models.
It’s now hard to imagine that the same company did awesome cars like E46 M3, E9x M3 and E60 M5
I feel sad that BMW is now destroying it’s brand.
The classic cars will now be even more desired and expensive because of this.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

To me the last crazy M car was with introduction of E60 M5 with V10 that was completely ridiculous

Yeah the M5 V10 was the last truly bespoke M engined car, that was not even close to one of their standard engines.

I love the performance, refinement and economy of my S58, but when I have the room I have to buy an E60 M5, that sound is just too special.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

To me a "M" must be turbo charged, internal combustion engined rear wheel drive and needs to have at least a 10% improved level of performance over the base model.

Originally Posted by Brandoch

That is the saddest statement I have ever read.

I suspect you would prefer a nice 4wd, EV for your "M"? Do you want that with a cooler of Bud Lite in the trunk?

[allinon72]

Pick 10 dealers around your region and look at what they have for new inventory....most likely you'll find a sea of electrics and not much else. They overproduced, the small portion who are interested now have one, and they simply aren't selling.

This goes for most of the auto manufacturers right now. Ford can't give away the Mach-E and the Lightning buzz went from extremely high to in the negatives. Again, the very small portion of the population that wanted a Lightning now have one. Electric cars, whether you like them or hate them, are no where near ready for the mass market.

Global manufacturers are basically being forced, monetarily and by other means, into making vehicles that customers DO NOT WANT on average! BMW is just following in lockstep.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I suspect you would prefer a nice 4wd, EV for your "M"? Do you want that with a cooler of Bud Lite in the trunk?

Just because your lord and savior trump got arrested again doesn't mean that you can take your anger out on people. I was purely saying that your statement was sad because you think that M cars have to be turbocharged. What about all E series M cars? No turbochargers there.

[Rafichicago]

Ups… someone is watching too much news 🤣 Let’s keep this forum to car related subjects 👍

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

I was purely saying that your statement was sad because you think that M cars have to be turbocharged. What about all E series M cars? No turbochargers there.

What part of "To me" didn't you comprehend?

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

What part of "To me" didn't you comprehend?

I comprehend that just fine thank you, hence why I thought it was sad. To each their own I guess, including people who like the older or current M models.

[tranquility]

I didn't bother reading the article but M lost its way years ago if not a decade+. To be fair, the majority of carmakers have also. However, if the MX-5 (aka Miata) can still put out a modern car that is virtually the same wt as its *original* despite all the modern reqts, why can't others?

This debate goes beyond and depends on which camp you belong to: I never cared for high-HP cars and invariably their accompanying larger wt and size, but that has been the trend from reg sportcars to supercars. I couldn't care less about top speed, give me handling as I live on the streets, not the track; it's hilarious when ppl gush over 800hp cars w 202mph top speeds, where are they realistically gonna do that on public roads?

[TheMaxXHD]

Everyone says M means no longer what it used to mean, but yet, those same people cannot agree WHEN M was still M as they see it, which kinda defeats the entire argument that M lost its way at all. Did it happen after the venerable E46 M3? What about the E9x M3 with its adrenaline educing V8? What about the F80? Was the G80 the first bad M3? Or is it one of the best M3's?

Depending on who you ask, BMW lost its way decades ago, a decade ago, a few years ago, or they may say they haven't lost their way at all.

The answer is usually, everyone is both right and wrong. The more accurate statement is, BMW M is changing with the market and new generations of people and their needs and wants, so they may not be losing their way, so much as evolving the M brand. Their sales numbers pretty much back that up. A failing M brand would have customer rejecting their cars en masse, but they aren't. Whether you agree with BMWs strategy there is entirely another topic.

Some people will like the change, some people don't. But that don't necessarily make the old cars the best or the new cars the worst, or vice versa. It just is. And often, it comes down to personal preference, nothing more. You got people thinking the E46 is the best M3 ever, and others that think its the most overrated M3 ever...now you want to figure out when the entire BMW M lineup was the best or worst???

[DanG]

I think BMW lost its way when they started putting M designations on SUVs. Drove an XM today at M Town. It was as far away from being a track focused auto that one can have. Big and luxurious but not an auto for the track. Far from the Ultimate Driving Machine.

How many X branded BMWs have people seen on club track days? None for me.