[topfuel67]

Loosening the tensioner allowed the cams to line up for the tool and actually use the correct counter holding tool. I found a bmw document online that said not to use the cam locking tool for the bolt removal. I'm glad I didn't as those were under serious torque.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by topfuel67

Loosening the tensioner allowed the cams to line up for the tool and actually use the correct counter holding tool. I found a bmw document online that said not to use the cam locking tool for the bolt removal. I'm glad I didn't as those were under serious torque.

Nice. FYI that blue plate isn't needed for removal though just install but no harm done.

But wow I'm surprised you found a document saying that, the screenshot I put earlier is from ISTA directly and says to lock the cams for bolt removal.

[topfuel67]

The document lists all the special tools, not sure if these are the actual bmw tools or an aftermarket company. The order for disassembly they list is:
-Lock Camshafts with tool "11-4-280" (do not use this tool as a counter holding)
-Remove both camshaft gears (use counter hold)
-Install tool "11-5-200" at crankshaft
-Install counter holding tool "11-9-280"
-Remove crank bolt

These instructions are for removing the timing chain, but this part goes over the removal of the camshaft gears and said not to use just the cam locking tool. It was confusing that the instructions said to use the counter hold to remove the camshaft gears before giving instructions to install them. That plus the fact I didn't have the counter holder (the tool that bolts to the crankshaft hub) referenced there, I just used the blue one I had in the kit. I am being really cautious on this car. I have had to redo stuff or dig deeper on so many things I'm losing my sanity.
I got as far as removing, cleaning and resealing the intake cam. I got the exhaust one off and that was it. Both sides are metal seals. The intake side was grooved deeper than the exhaust.
I do appreciate the help. I won't be able to wok on her again until Monday. I'll post updates when I get her back together.

[topfuel67]

I screwed myself by saying "I really don't want to take off the oil pan." I broke the top off the timing chain guide. Luckily that comes off separately from having to pull the whole timing chain assembly. BUT I then broke the bottom tabs removing it from the other part of the guide. Of course those 2 tabs dropped to the bottom of the pan. SO, do I just do the timing chain now that I have to buy the engine support/lift bar to drop the subframe to get to the pan? Another $400.
I watched some youtube videos on this timing job. Now that I was able to remove the timing chain tensioner I am not sure if that was the correct process to do before installing that cam locking tool and that was the reason for it not lining up. Now I am not convinced the timing was wrong or the chain bad. But I am not confident.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by topfuel67

I screwed myself by saying "I really don't want to take off the oil pan." I broke the top off the timing chain guide. Luckily that comes off separately from having to pull the whole timing chain assembly. BUT I then broke the bottom tabs removing it from the other part of the guide. Of course those 2 tabs dropped to the bottom of the pan. SO, do I just do the timing chain now that I have to buy the engine support/lift bar to drop the subframe to get to the pan? Another $400.
I watched some youtube videos on this timing job. Now that I was able to remove the timing chain tensioner I am not sure if that was the correct process to do before installing that cam locking tool and that was the reason for it not lining up. Now I am not convinced the timing was wrong or the chain bad. But I am not confident.

Ahh.... I don't know if you should do timing chain. I'm not sure how common it is. But yeah I'd for sure remove those pieces from oil pan.

As for procedure, my ISTA says to remove cam gears before the chain tensioner, so no I don't think so that's why it didn't line up. Also you have to remember if that was the issue, then that means both camshaft would be missaligned, not just one. You should have compared their orientation to the picture I posted there, like the rear of them, that would have be interesting information. I'm pretty sure your engine just wasn't 100% perfectly in time, but not enough to cause actual issues. The only thing that is supposed to not align is the VANOS sensing plates on the camshaft gears (the ones you lock in with the nubs on the blue plate tool, that is only needed to lock them when timing engine). Like it probably doesn't run as good as it should but not enough for codes. But I'm not experienced enough to know if that means you have a stretched chain or not. I recommend you search some more.

Also about your other comment for timing chain job, I don't know what instructions you are looking at but my ISTA says to remove the camshaft gears first as per their normal procedure, which is use to use the camshaft lock tools + TDC pin. Then for the timing chain job itself,, you keep the camshafts lock + you install a flywheel locking tool (there's different locking tool depending on if the engine is removed from car/transmission or on and I think different one for manual VS automatic), remove the TDC pin and then you can loosen crank bolt. And then the rest of the instructions.